Another Vote For Traditional PFI Engines !

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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Add to that the video clearly shows that the PCV design leads the vapors directly to the affected intake valves!
... and more PCV vapors come from using conventional oil. You might get it eventually SteveSRT8, keep trying.
 
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Add to that the video clearly shows that the PCV design leads the vapors directly to the affected intake valves!
... and more PCV vapors come from using conventional oil. You might get it eventually SteveSRT8, keep trying.


Yeah I get you, too.

Very impressive. You could also try sending me nasty personal messages like others here have told me, but that won't work either. You just keep trying, maybe you can get somewhere?

Been here a long time, and still hangin'...
 
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Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Since dirty intake valves on a DI engine are largely due to oil seeping thru the valve stems, then I wonder if Ford's use of conventional dino oil is hurting them here.


Care to explain what had happened in this picture then? Gee, I didn't realize the the oil leaking past valve seals can migrate up the intake track.
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Also a link to those studies you mentioned wouldn't hurt.

Cleanvalveson36L.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ


Care to explain what had happened in this picture then? Gee, I didn't realize the the oil leaking past valve seals can migrate up the intake track.
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It's that highly volatile Group II +/Group III SN/GF-5 conventional oils, don't you know.
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That looks like a PFI spray pattern so it wouldn't show anything from the valves.
So many good points have been brought up in this thread, its a shame that it took a turn for the worst with personal attacks on a very respected member and a nice guy.

I honestly don't know a lot about the effects of oil fumes or their origins to contribute much to the thread but i can see where a higher Noack oil letting even a slight amount past the valve seals would "smoke" on the hot intake valve possibly causing deposits over time.
Heated oil smoke from the crankcase through the PCV system may IMHO have a greater impact because it will cool somewhat as it goes through the system.

IMHO both theories may be valid and yes i believe a lower Noack oil may provide some benefit.
Being a synthetic or not is probably no guarantee of low volatility, PYB is a dino with lower Noack numbers.
Lets face it if we could solve these issues on BITOC we can all retire.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
That looks like a PFI spray pattern so it wouldn't show anything from the valves.



I was trying to illustrate that if majority of valve deposits were from leaking valve stems, the rest of the intake tract would be relatively clean, like in a pick below.
Since most DI deposits issues show the intake duct covered with oily residue well before valves, it is quite a bold statement to say that valve stem leakage is the culprit, especially on brand new cars. And PFI intakes are as oily inside as DI intakes.


intake_valve_pelican.JPG
 
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Trav
That looks like a PFI spray pattern so it wouldn't show anything from the valves.


I was trying to illustrate that if majority of valve deposits were from leaking valve stems, the rest of the intake tract would be relatively clean, like in a pick below.
Since most DI deposits issues show the intake duct covered with oily residue well before valves, it is quite a bold statement to say that valve stem leakage is the culprit, especially on brand new cars. And PFI intakes are as oily inside as DI intakes.

intake_valve_pelican.JPG



Great pic! Thanks. I'd like to know more about the mileage/usage/oil on that engine. Anyway, to the point, the PCV ---AND--- the valve stems BOTH contribute oil to the valve deposits, both in DI and PFI engines, although at least the PFI engines have fuel to clean the valves a bit, usually successfully. Notice that valve stems must be lubricated, so they must have a thin film left over on them, exposed to the intake air and/or fuel stream. I do think the PCV source is the big one, and crankcase blow-by carbon & engine oil vapors are there.
 
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Great pic! Thanks. I'd like to know more about the mileage/usage/oil on that engine. Anyway, to the point, the PCV ---AND--- the valve stems BOTH contribute oil to the valve deposits, both in DI and PFI engines, although at least the PFI engines have fuel to clean the valves a bit, usually successfully. Notice that valve stems must be lubricated, so they must have a thin film left over on them, exposed to the intake air and/or fuel stream. I do think the PCV source is the big one, and crankcase blow-by carbon & engine oil vapors are there.


I agree, and I bet that as the engine ages, the percentage each source contributes to the deposits also changes and possibly new sources develop as well.

I would like to see some intake valve pics of Mazda's Skyactive engines, as they claim that the valves are run much hotter to prevent the buildup.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I would like to see some intake valve pics of Mazda's Skyactive engines, as they claim that the valves are run much hotter to prevent the buildup.
I don't see how they would be hotter than Ecoboost 2.0L valves that are sodium-filled for heat transfer, and the Ecoboost 2.0L has problems.
 
The whole reason for valve stem seals is to seal off oil from the rest of the stem, keeping the oil out of the combustion chamber. In a new motor this should be the case, with virtually no oil on the rest of the valve, just the part in the actual valve guide itself.

PCV is the obvious culprit, and it should be noted that only vapors are transferred there, no carbon or solids of any kind unless you have a ratty old tired engine. Thus if the valve is cooler then you will get 'condensation'. Seems like the smart mfgrs have figured out to heat the valve to a high enough temp to prevent this...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The whole reason for valve stem seals is to seal off oil from the rest of the stem, keeping the oil out of the combustion chamber. In a new motor this should be the case, with virtually no oil on the rest of the valve, just the part in the actual valve guide itself.


Some must remain on the valve stem, not perfectly wiped like you claim. As minimal as possible. Its not hard for most people to get.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

PCV is the obvious culprit, and it should be noted that only vapors are transferred there, no carbon or solids of any kind ....


More misinformation from SteveSRT8. Airborne carbon particle soot in small amounts, mixes with oil vapors and travel thru the PCV valves.
 
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The whole reason for valve stem seals is to seal off oil from the rest of the stem, keeping the oil out of the combustion chamber. In a new motor this should be the case, with virtually no oil on the rest of the valve, just the part in the actual valve guide itself.


Some must remain on the valve stem, not perfectly wiped like you claim. As minimal as possible. Its not hard for most people to get.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

PCV is the obvious culprit, and it should be noted that only vapors are transferred there, no carbon or solids of any kind ....


More misinformation from SteveSRT8. Airborne carbon particle soot in small amounts, mixes with oil vapors and travel thru the PCV valves.


Ever seen a catch can? Ahem, LIQUID, not solid. Sure, maybe some microscopic particles, huh?

And BTW, nice backtracking above! Misinformation would seem to be your middle name around here. You just keep it going, man!

And if your valve seals don't wipe, guess what? Smoke.

More brain dead input from Far Fetched!
 
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Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The whole reason for valve stem seals is to seal off oil from the rest of the stem, keeping the oil out of the combustion chamber. In a new motor this should be the case, with virtually no oil on the rest of the valve, just the part in the actual valve guide itself.


Some must remain on the valve stem, not perfectly wiped like you claim. As minimal as possible. Its not hard for most people to get.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

PCV is the obvious culprit, and it should be noted that only vapors are transferred there, no carbon or solids of any kind ....


More misinformation from SteveSRT8. Airborne carbon particle soot in small amounts, mixes with oil vapors and travel thru the PCV valves.


Steve stated VIRTUALLY no oil on the rest of the stem, which is in fact the case. The film that makes its way by a seal in good working order is incredibly thin, he did not say it was perfectly wiped.

Also, with respect to solids, anything with a decent air/oil separator should collect most of that, as the product ingested by the PCV system is usually a combination of blow-by gasses, fresh air (ingested through the breather) and oil mist whipped up by the action of the crank, rods, pistons....etc. Most of the oil mist, in a properly designed system, should fall-out/condense in the separator and make its way to the pan. It would be in that mist that any solids would be present (carbon particulate making its way by the rings for example, coke from the ring land area....etc) and in theory, it isn't supposed to make its way into the intake tract.

In application this probably varies wildly manufacturer to manufacturer. In my experience, carbon in the intake tract is usually easily traceable to the EGR valve, engines without EGR or an EGR delete usually get a very light oil film that eventually turns to a bit of varnish in the runners and also usually around the PCV valve area in the valve cover.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Ever seen a catch can? Ahem, LIQUID, not solid. Sure, maybe some microscopic particles, huh?
We were all expecting baseball-sized crud in there! LMAO -- Grow a brain, please.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

And if your valve seals don't wipe, guess what? Smoke.
More brain dead input from Far Fetched!


More name-calling from SteveSRT8, a person who only has guts enough to say this on the internet. People like him faint at real life, so he uses the web for garbage-slinging. Sad. He's just mad he bought sub-par Mopar Chrysler products bailed out by taxpayers.
 
^^^Must be ready for another short vacation, eh? ^^^

So, what part of name calling offends you? The part where you call us names? Or the retort?

I mean, seriously, man, what do you expect? My personal message box is full of your fan's comments and it ain't pretty. Keep dishing it out and expect more to come. I'm always ready for another one.

While you're at it, try and figure out what actual carbon particles would do if they ran through the intake. DOH! Might need a few more engineering degrees for that!

Keep tryin', I ain't faintin'...
 
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^Must be ready for another short vacation, eh? ^^^

So, what part of name calling offends you? The part where you call us names? Or the retort?

I mean, seriously, man, what do you expect? My personal message box is full of your fan's comments and it ain't pretty. Keep dishing it out and expect more to come. I'm always ready for another one.

While you're at it, try and figure out what actual carbon particles would do if they ran through the intake. DOH! Might need a few more engineering degrees for that!

Keep tryin', I ain't faintin'...


I've had several people PM me with complaints about your crazy behavior after you went nuts a few times. SteveSRT8's motto "Trolling and Slingin' Bad Info on BITOG Forever Now" ....
grin.gif
 
Far Fetched's motto: "Brain Dead or your money back!"

Have you figured it out yet? Or will you just completely reverse yourself like you did in this thread?

C'mon, keep it going. This could get fun!
 
SteveSRT8, I feel like I'm just saying the same thing over and over again to a Chrysler-owner..er, I mean, chair. ... One more time: All I've ever said is that some oil and fuel and HC and carbon soot particles DOES makes its way to the intake valves. You made it sound like it was a clean-room, thats all. Then you reverse yourself; you love to argue. Its what you do, the worst-of-the-web .... You have a lot to learn about engines.
 
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