Got you. If it doesn't have the 3PMSF logo then yes, it would think it would be marketed as a summer tyre. I certainly wouldn't buy an all season without it.
An observation: lots of off-brand summer tires in Europe?
- Thread starter Klutch9
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Got you. If it doesn't have the 3PMSF logo then yes, it would think it would be marketed as a summer tyre. I certainly wouldn't buy an all season without it.
Bingo
Opinion? What law are you talking about? You are talking how summer tires have M+S designation and you got lost. I would say, you have no clue what you talking about.
In some more Northern countries in Europe, having tyres with the 3PMSF logo is required by law during certain months of the year.
JFC, I know that. I am from one of those countries that have those laws.
He claimed they have summer tires with M+S designation and only thing I asked is which tires are those and what summer tire meet M+S standard.
Nothing to do with 3PMSF.
What?!? oh boy...
.M+S doesn't have any testing, its by tire manufacturing "recommendations" That's way EU have now its own. So you can be more sure when choosing a winter tire.No, i was talking about 3PMSF regulation. Have you even read true anything i posted? Your welcome to try out running m+s or any all season tires without 3 peak mountain snow flake at winter time in Finland or Sweden, then try to arguing about that with the Police.
M+S is an acronym for “mud and snow.” It’s a branding found on the sidewall of some all-season tires. It’s important to note there is no actual testing or accreditation to earn the M+S label
BF Goodrich all terrain (old version) lacks the 3PMSF that i have under my car. That makes them summer tires by the law and regulations, how hard is that for you to understand?
My Wife had Fullrun HP199's fitted to her last car (awful tyre!) which are sold as a performance summer tyre but had M+S on the sidewall.
The Cooper Evolution Sport seems like a good deal for those who can use summer tires
Information on this site says that the Cooper Evolution Sport seems to be primarily made for the Mexican market. Because of that, they are probably made in Mexico. It is available on some US sites including Simple Tire and Priority Tire. I came across it after someone else on here was looking...
bobistheoilguy.com
That makes them all Terrain tires.
Those are NOT summer tires! M+S tires mist have minimum 25% void on contact patch.
You are correct that there is no testing to get "M""+|&|"S" rating but the tire MUST meet geometry requirements. The void ratio MUST be above certain threshold. I guess it is called "industry standard".What?!? oh boy...
No, i was talking about 3PMSF regulation. Have you even read true anything i posted? Your welcome to try out running m+s or any all season tires without 3 peak mountain snow flake at winter time in Finland or Sweden, then try to arguing about that with the Police.
M+S is an acronym for “mud and snow.” It’s a branding found on the sidewall of some all-season tires. It’s important to note there is no actual testing or accreditation to earn the M+S label
In certain regions of Europe winter tires are mandatory. In some they are not (please consider Canary Islands, Madeira, Azores, and Spanish, Italian and Greek Mediterranean islands are part of Europe) - even though Madeira may get snow in February, I saw it! Locals drove to plateau (1500m elevation or so, 4,900ft) and built snowman on the hoods (bonnets) of their cars. There were some accidents related to wrong tires for conditions in this time.
Winter is a tire that has 3MPSF symbol. I would not call a tire that does not meet 3MPSF criteria automatically 'summer'. It is just not winter.
Summer tires may have M+S but they may have not. It may even be manufacturer decision, IMHO, to use it when tire geometry meets the standard. Look it more summer in the eye of customer, for example.
Just my opinion.
Krzyś
Maybe that is why they were awful? M+S has certain requirements. Manufacturers can claim performance, but that would be example of: don’t save on tires.
again, you are repeating what everyone knows here. We know that certain countries have those laws, you have to pay fine etc.What?!? oh boy...
No, i was talking about 3PMSF regulation. Have you even read true anything i posted? Your welcome to try out running m+s or any all season tires without 3 peak mountain snow flake at winter time in Finland or Sweden, then try to arguing about that with the Police.
M+S is an acronym for “mud and snow.” It’s a branding found on the sidewall of some all-season tires. It’s important to note there is no actual testing or accreditation to earn the M+S label
But, tire must meet certain criteria to be M+S. Now, whether manufacturer will slap M+S on some garbage and claim M+S is different thing. A lot of manufacturers claim a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean those tires are appropriate for those performance claims. While there is no testing, there is still criteria that has to be met for a tire to have M+S and by that, it defeats purpose as summer only tire.
hello, is anybody home? These tires are summer tires according to new laws and regulations over here, still arguing about that same thing. Doesn't really matter what we call them, those are not winter tires anymore. There fore your not allowed to sell them as winter tires if they don't have 3MPSF. You live in US and i live here in EU and i don't care if you are from Europe.
Now i was talking about other member why some can be sold as a summer tire, "even if its says M/S.
Guys,
I think you need to be careful here.
It is my understanding that the categories - say, Winter - have no official designations. HOWEVER, the fact is that there ARE standards and regulations and for example, some places say that is required for tires to display the Alpine symbol (aka 3PMSF) to be used during certain parts of the year that we normally call winter - hence the name "Winter Tires".
I know, I know. That sounds like a lawyer talking - and that is exactly what it is! Laws and regulations are written in such a way that it takes talking like a lawyer to make sense of it.
I think what we have going on here is what people call certain types of tires. For example, a "Winter Tire" nowadays has the Alpine symbol (aka 3PMSF), but the term "Winter Tire" isn't called out in the regulations. It's just that we call those types of tires "Winter Tires" as a shortcut in the language.
What did we do BEFORE the invention of the Alpine symbol (aka 3PMSF)? This was the problem confronting regulators in Canada in the mid 1990's, so they asked the CRMA (Canadian Rubber Manufacturers, now known as TRAC - Tire and Rubber Association of Canada.) who in conjunction with the US based RMA (Rubber Manufacturers Association, now known as the USTMA - US Tire Manufacturers Association) developed the test and the symbol. This allowed the regulators to specify what tires would be acceptable.
So they didn't have regulations and the term "Winter Tire" had virtually no official meaning - just a marketing one.
Right now, there are no regulations specifying what "All Season", "Summer", "All Terrain", "All Weather", etc. actually mean. That also means that people use these words differently in different parts of the world.
In the US, by convention we call summer tires those that don't have the M+S symbol. There is a regulation about what tires can display the M+S symbol and by convention, we call those All Season.
What I am trying to say is be careful when you apply a name to types of tires because we don't all use the terms the same way.
I think you need to be careful here.
It is my understanding that the categories - say, Winter - have no official designations. HOWEVER, the fact is that there ARE standards and regulations and for example, some places say that is required for tires to display the Alpine symbol (aka 3PMSF) to be used during certain parts of the year that we normally call winter - hence the name "Winter Tires".
I know, I know. That sounds like a lawyer talking - and that is exactly what it is! Laws and regulations are written in such a way that it takes talking like a lawyer to make sense of it.
I think what we have going on here is what people call certain types of tires. For example, a "Winter Tire" nowadays has the Alpine symbol (aka 3PMSF), but the term "Winter Tire" isn't called out in the regulations. It's just that we call those types of tires "Winter Tires" as a shortcut in the language.
What did we do BEFORE the invention of the Alpine symbol (aka 3PMSF)? This was the problem confronting regulators in Canada in the mid 1990's, so they asked the CRMA (Canadian Rubber Manufacturers, now known as TRAC - Tire and Rubber Association of Canada.) who in conjunction with the US based RMA (Rubber Manufacturers Association, now known as the USTMA - US Tire Manufacturers Association) developed the test and the symbol. This allowed the regulators to specify what tires would be acceptable.
So they didn't have regulations and the term "Winter Tire" had virtually no official meaning - just a marketing one.
Right now, there are no regulations specifying what "All Season", "Summer", "All Terrain", "All Weather", etc. actually mean. That also means that people use these words differently in different parts of the world.
In the US, by convention we call summer tires those that don't have the M+S symbol. There is a regulation about what tires can display the M+S symbol and by convention, we call those All Season.
What I am trying to say is be careful when you apply a name to types of tires because we don't all use the terms the same way.
They are all-terrain tires! You just can’t drive them in certain months. That is it.
Laws don’t determine performance of the tire. It sets up certain rules, or in this case raise requirements for certain performance characteristics. That doesn’t make tire “summer” tire automatically. Performance of that BF Goodrich tires don’t suddenly become better in summer. With M+S tires manufacturer MUST give up certain summer performance. Laws don’t suddenly make those tires better in summer. I have M+S tires too in the summer and fall and spring months. I have them bcs. cold months, that transition period, and they are much better than actual summer tire, in those conditions. But I do give up something in hot months. They can tomorrow make whatever laws, that doesn’t change the fact that I drive on actually all-season tires and performance will not suddenly get better or worse of laws are changed.
In EU I have nit see serious tire manufacturer selling summer tire with M+S symbol. They all designate those tires as “ALL” something.
The crux of it. Summer tires for us here in the U.S. are high-performance tires. No M+S. Only good down to 40 deg F. You have the full-on winter/snow tires. Then you have these "3 peak" all seasons that handle snow "ok" then everything else is an all season. Over in Euro....you have winter-rated tires or not so anything not winter rated or an all-terrain tire is lumped as a summer tire which doesn't mean it's a performance tire.
There's also A/T's that carry 3PMFS. I'm hoping to run General Grabber AT3's on my Duster next year which are A/T's that are also winter rated. Although aren't general a US brand?
Sounds like Europe is generally far stricter than the US.
Thread was about Germany (EU). Why many M+S are sold as a summer tire. So i explained that to him why? so why is that so hard to believe? Now you trying to twist this to even worse. Like i said, your welcome to try your opinion
I have a set of Barum tires on my 06 Acura TL. I have 10K on them and just rotated them yesterday. They been great for me. I had no problems driving in the snow last winter with them. The first set of Barum’s I bought were way back in 2006.