Amsoil Saber Professional-Untested for JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD, API TC ????

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mtgrs737

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All you Amsoil folks on the board, I need some help figuring out if Amsoil's new Saber Professional has been tested to certify to ISO-L-EGD, JASO FC and API TC standards. I ask this question because I have a bottle of it and it says that it is "recomended for these applications". I have heard about Amsoil's weasel wording in marketing their product. In all fairness I have used Saber mixed at 32 to 1 and it seems to work OK, no smoke or plug fouling. I'd just like to know if it's been tested to these standards or not.
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weasel wording
quote:
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LMAO! Amsoil isn't the only one that does this. I think many small blenders just plain don't wnat to spend the money for certification and many big blenders don't think they need to with the market being mosly uneducated about these things. Also the company they buy their additive package from may suggest that the package will meet certification if blended with x or y base stock at z %. This gives the blender enough confidance to market the product using "weasel wording", LOL.
 
FWIW I have been using Amsoil 100:1 for almost 7 years now with very good results. Just started using Sabre this year. Am mixing at 50:1 for all my equipment (Stihl saw, Green Machine weed whacker, Lawn-Boy mowers, Mantis tiller with Echo engine).
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Thanks for the replies, I am starting to pay more attention to the products I use these days mostly because of you folks. I don't take anything at face value until I do some research first. There are many companies marketing a product that is untested and proclaiming it to be the best thing since sliced bread when in fact it's just another form of snake oil designed to make them money. BTW that Mobil one Racing 2T sure does seem to be the REAL DEAL
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and they don't make claims like Amsoil or Opti.
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IMHO, the phrases "weasel wording" or "snake oils" are a bit extreme when looking at the industry practices of listing certs for air cooled 2 cycle oils.

Both the European ISO & Japaneses JASO organizations, are in the business of setting standards, not maintaining a list of approved oils, as NMMA does for TC-W3 2 cycle oils, or issuing licenses, as the API does for motor oils.

So the phrases "meets the requirements of ISO-L-EGD,JASO-FC" or "formulated for ISO-L-EGD, JASO-FC applications" are commonly used.

The ISO/JASO tests are expensive & time consuming. Of the four test sequences, the high temp lubrication test is 12 hours long and the exhaust blocking test is 30-30 hours long.

As far as the use of phrases, I see alot of "meets or exceeds" in reference to the ISO & JASO standards at both the Shindiawa and Stihl websites.
 
I guess all companies should stop making claims about their products. The customer should just fall in line and use whatever the experts tell us to. Right on.
 
Excuse me. No weasel wording involved.

"untested" ? Of course it was tested and passes.

"Making claims" - Please name a oil company that doesn't make a claim.

It used to infuriate some that Amsoil had one or two 2-stroke oils....now there is a family of five:

http://www.amsoil.com/products/twocycle/index.aspx

And Amsoil differentiates not only the application but the specifications the oils meet as well.
 
After tracking down some info on the JASO-FC standards, I discovered that certifications are issued, with registration numbers, for JASO-FC 2 cycle oils.

The Citgo family of private label 2 cycle oils, with Echo Power Blend as the most common example, have JASO-FC certification numbers.

Here's an example at the Echo website:

quote:

Echo premium 2-stroke oil is manufactured exclusively for Echo, Inc. and exceeds ISO LEGD standards and is JASO/FC registered (registration #001EPA646).
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http://www.echo-usa.com/fueloil2.asp
 
Pablo, I went to the Amsoil website and carefully read the information there and I don't see the magic words "Certified to Iso-L-EDG, JASO FC, API TC standards" I only see the the abreviations in BOLD print to give an unthinking person the IMPRESSION that this oil is tested to the above. I'm sorry about the negitive comments but I think it's high time these rascals were exposed for misleading the public.
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quote:
I'm sorry about the negitive comments but I think it's high time these rascals were exposed for misleading the public.
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But why slam Amsoil for the practice?

Last time I cruised thru the Lawn & Garden dept at Home Depot, I spotted Toro, John Deere, Poulan Synthetic, Homelite & the HD Powercare brand , all with ISO-L-EGD listed on the label.

Are any comments regarding "weasel" or "rascal" directed at these brands?

Should be easy to find the JASO certs, if Amsoil is the only 2 cycle oil out there without an actual JASO cert number.

I'll name three 2 cycle air cooled oils with a traceable JASO-FC cert - Redmax, Echo Power Blend & Citgo Sea & Snow. And Citgo blends & packages for the other two.

Anybody, please name a few more...
 
The additive chemistry used in the Saber Professional IS tested to the JASO FC and ISO-L-EGD standards, by Amsoils additive supplier. They simply have made a business decision that the ROI wouldn't make it worthwhile to get certification, since so few customers are even aware of certification or care about it. This is a similar situation to some of their engine oils, where they simply choose not to have the product licensed by the API, even though it would easily meet all the performance (wear, deposits, oil consumption, etc), and chemical (phosphorus) requirements.

Amsoil fully warrantees all their lubricants when used in mechanically sound equipment; according to their specific recommendations. In addition, they do extensive bench and field testing before a product is ever released. I cannot recall any performace related issues with any of their lubricants during the 25+ years I've been a registered dealer. This includes their Universal synthetic ATF that some folks have such a hard time accepting.

I should note that the 100:1 mix ratio is for typical homeowner or recreational use. Commercial applications and racing applications should use a richer mix ratio, which is best determined through experience and seasonal engine teardowns....

Tooslick
 
mtgrs737 - now I see your confusion. To you, tested means on some list. No, Amsoil is not big on lists. They are not claiming to be on these lists. There is nothing deceitful, weaselly, rascally or otherwise about this practice. For you or anyone else to publicly claim that Amsoil is "not tested" is quite irresponsible. Again, the oil is tested by Amsoil, independent labs and/or the additive supplier or an independent lab for the additive supplier.

The oils meet or exceed the claimed standards and Amsoil stands behind that. No games.
 
The differance is Mx2t will actually pass the test, no 100:1 product from amsoil will. Its not that the 100:1 oils are bad products is just because the isso and Jaso tests are run at ratios in the neighborhood of 16:1. The high molecular weight base oils and robust mettalic addtive packages used in 100:1 would cause them to fail almost all the performance tests.
 
quote:
Originally posted by blano:
The differance is Mx2t will actually pass the test, no 100:1 product from amsoil will. Its not that the 100:1 oils are bad products is just because the isso and Jaso tests are run at ratios in the neighborhood of 16:1. The high molecular weight base oils and robust mettalic addtive packages used in 100:1 would cause them to fail almost all the performance tests.
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They work fine in the real world. Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary, why don't you find another axe to grind?
 
No axe to grind here and I thought my last message was rather clear and unbiased...
BTW I have tested 100:1 in "the real world" and its performance was mediocre at best. This was at Amsoil recomended ratio.
 
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