Amsoil OE 5w30 2006 Jeep GC 3.7L 4,880

[Jocephus]

Here is the result from my Blackstone report...Vehicle is a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 3.7L PowerTech V6. Most of my driving with this vehicle is in the Ozark Mountains pulling a 3k trailer. (Have to thrash the 3.7 up some of the grades) Edit: it is mostly highway.

Previous fill was M1. I've had this vehicle since new. The only time M1 wasn't used was once when the wife had Synpower put in at a quick lube (approx 20k miles ago).

PureOne filter.

No top-off oil added. (Never burned or leaked)

Fuel is only from Shell stations, and a bottle of Techron was added in the fuel tank a couple hundred miles before I switched to the Amsoil.





BLACKSTONE'S REPORT
"Joe, We're not sure what oil you were using before this Amsoil was put in use, but it probably was something that used sodium as an additive. Sodium in that form is harmless. If it's coolant, it can be abrasive, though that doesn't appear to be the case here. Wear metals read quite low compared to averages, which are based on 5,000 miles on the oil for the Jeep 3.7L V-6. You mentioned lots of towing and some revs in the hill, but judging by the low wear numbers, the engine doesn't mind. The TBN read 3.1, which shows plenty of active additive left. Nice report.





Code:
OIL Amsoil OE 5w30

MILES IN USE 4880

MILES 87070

SAMPLE TAKEN 6/11/12



ALUMINUM 3

CHROMIUM 0

IRON 7

COPPER 1

LEAD 0

TIN 0

MOLYBDENUM 79

NICKEL 0

MANGANESE 0

SILVER 0

TITANIUM 0

POTASSIUM 1

BORON 79

SILICON 8

SODIUM 54

CALCIUM 2006

MAGNESIUM 124

PHOSPHORUS 710

ZINC 816

BARIUM 0



INSOLUBLES 0.2

WATER 0

FLASHPOINT ºF 400

SUS VIS 210ºF 60.5

cSt @ 212ºF 10.37

FUEL % 0

TBN 3.1



Any questions and comments would be greatly appreciated.


As far as my experiences with the Amsoil OE, I must say that I've been very happy thus far and had better results on this UOA than I was expecting.

I'm not sure if i'm going to stay with the OE...its a great oil, but when shipping costs are added in it makes it real hard to stay with it. My dealer doesn't keep any Amsoil in stock so this will probably affect my decision next oil change. (After costs and shipping Amsoil OE is about $10 more expensive than locally available premium synthetics)

 

[Turk]

Nice, strong showing on the Amsoil OE with those conditions in the Jeep.

 

[Artem]

Awesome run indeed. That dealer of yours really sucks. OE is a great oil at a great price if bought at wholesale cost without shipping charges (comes out to $4.44 per quart)

 

[Jocephus]

Oh yeah, I'm really impressed with the Amsoil OE. I'm going to do 1 more UOA (and post on here) and make the decision.

I dislike the notion of using the Jeep as a tow vehicle as we've just been using it these last 15k miles to tow. My wife does metal art sculptures so we're pulling about at the tow limit of the Jeep every single weekend. I really need to keep an eye on the tranny/diff/transfer case.


Regarding Amsoil dealers...there's good ones and bad ones. Unfortunately, the words of a bad Amsoil dealer go way farther than the words of a good one. Amsoil puts good products out there...however, is the hassle worth dealing with it? To be determined.

 

[Turk]

Get a hold of Pablo here.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Jocephus

As far as my experiences with the Amsoil OE, I must say that I've been very happy thus far and had better results on this UOA than I was expecting.

I'm not sure if i'm going to stay with the OE...its a great oil, but when shipping costs are added in it makes it real hard to stay with it. My dealer doesn't keep any Amsoil in stock so this will probably affect my decision next oil change. (After costs and shipping Amsoil OE is about $10 more expensive than locally available premium synthetics)



So are you a PC (Preferred Customer)? Shoot me a PM, and I'll get you signed up. Buy Amsoil from a BITOG site sponsor - help support BITOG

 

[KCJeep]

Looks very good!

 

[dnewton3]

I'm making some presumptions here; correct me if I veer off course.
5K mile OCIs are OEM? Or self imposed?
Used syns (M1, Amsoil, Synpower) for the vast majority of the lifecycle?

Plenty of life left in that load. I presume it was dumped at the OCI? With the TBN that strong, could have gone easily 50% further, perhaps more. I realize that OE warranty is limited to the OEM OCI, but when things are running that well, why not extend the OCI?

The inability to reach ROI is a good reason to review any lube choice. Seems that you've run syns of various brands for quite some time.

The OE performed extremely well, but it cannot give you a good ROI at retail prices at OEM OCIs. Depending upon shipping costs, certainly Pablo can get you a decent unit price; support our supporters!

If you're going to stick to 5k miles, though, have you considered trying a good quality dino oil? That might bring your ROI in line with your expectations. It is flat out difficult, if not improbable, for any syn to match the ROI and performance for a dino in normal OCIs. There is kind of a "hard bottom" cost to the syn market you'll not be able to dip under. So, to gain ROI, you'll need to extend the OCI with the syns.

The OE did a great job of protecting the engine; did a poor job of protecting your wallet.

 

[Jocephus]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I'm making some presumptions here; correct me if I veer off course.
5K mile OCIs are OEM? Or self imposed?
Used syns (M1, Amsoil, Synpower) for the vast majority of the lifecycle?

Plenty of life left in that load. I presume it was dumped at the OCI? With the TBN that strong, could have gone easily 50% further, perhaps more. I realize that OE warranty is limited to the OEM OCI, but when things are running that well, why not extend the OCI?

The inability to reach ROI is a good reason to review any lube choice. Seems that you've run syns of various brands for quite some time.

The OE performed extremely well, but it cannot give you a good ROI at retail prices at OEM OCIs. Depending upon shipping costs, certainly Pablo can get you a decent unit price; support our supporters!

If you're going to stick to 5k miles, though, have you considered trying a good quality dino oil? That might bring your ROI in line with your expectations. It is flat out difficult, if not improbable, for any syn to match the ROI and performance for a dino in normal OCIs. There is kind of a "hard bottom" cost to the syn market you'll not be able to dip under. So, to gain ROI, you'll need to extend the OCI with the syns.

The OE did a great job of protecting the engine; did a poor job of protecting your wallet.




Thanks for the comments...to answer your questions

The severe service OCI as per my owners manual is 3k miles with the standard OCI of 7500 miles. As my driving habits pulling a trailer in the Ozark Mountains, I fit the "severe duty" cycle since 90% of my miles are towing a trailer that is at the towable limits of the GVWR of the Jeep.

Thus, In my normal OCI of 5k-6k miles essentially I am doubling the severe service recommendation of the manufacturer.

When I originally purchased the Jeep in 2006, I was stationed in Fort Drum, NY in the Army and then was transferred to Alaska...that's why I started off with synthetics. When I got out of the Army, I stayed with M1.

The reason I never went extended OCI's in the Jeep is because of the warranty. It had an extended 7 year/70k mile warranty. Now that I am out of the warranty (and have a UOA in hand) I can stretch it out a little more.

I did look at running a good dino (PYB, etc) and I have no doubt that many great dino oils out there are capable of running 5k miles no problem (and longer). However, since I'm nearly doubling the severe service interval already its best to err on the side of caution.

If you look at it this way...worst case scenario. If I run PYB for 3k miles (severe service recommendation) its gonna cost me $31 (plus filter) for the full 6k miles. If I run a synthetic...it costs me about $27 (plus filter) for 5k. Essentially, this is a dead heat for 5k miles. If I run dino for 5k miles, which I totally agree is easily attainable...it's $16 (plus filter), which means the synthetic is only $11 more for 5k miles, which is about the cost of a Starbucks coffee and a bagel per OCI. So, I don't see how this is doing a poor job of protecting my wallet. (Obviously I could do FAR and rebates and get it cheaper...just giving a standard example of whats available on the shelf right now down the road)

I do recognize that I did dump oil that had life left in it, and this will be considered on my next OCI. I had never done a UOA before...thus even considering an extended drain before this under this service would have been deemed crazy...now it's attainable.

Personally, I feel the best bang for the buck OC right now is the $20.57 5 quart jug of QSUD at Walmart , and honestly I was hoping this UOA with the Amsoil OE was going to be average to make the decision easier to go with that. However, with the results I got, it earned another shot (and another UOA).

I know that there is no "best oil", and I run M1 and other products in my other vehicles. However, I think in my situation...this vehicle...this oil...I think I've found a winning combination.

I'm going to PM to Pablo right now and would like to publicly thank him and the other site sponsors for allowing us the ability to participate in the forum.

Thank you for your comments and opinions.

 

[Turk]

Good explanation & good call moving forward.

 

[buster]

I agree. You won't see much of a difference between most conventional/syn blends/full synthetic oils in most vehicles, especially those doing shorter drain intervals and not seeing extreme temperatures. Almost all oils today do a great job at preventing wear.

dnewton makes a very valid point.

 

[dnewton3]

I think you have put some reasonable thought into your program.

I do disagree with your servere service decision, but cannot fault the path you took. IOW, I understand why you consider youreself severe service; it fits the OEM criteria. But what I'm saying is that most of the time, these severe service restrictions are, well, too restrictive.

Here's a little read that talks to the relationship between "normal" service and severe towing:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsletters/Gas-Diesel/March-1-2011.php
It's a bit of a long read, but I can give you a synopsis. After 6.6k miles of pulling a trailer on a trip, Mr. Stark did his UOA; the metals were essentially the same. Any ppm shift was so small that it can easily be explained by statistical standard deviation. Although he expected the severe service to take a toll on his engine, it didn't, even after using dino for a 6.6k mile OCI with heavy pulling every day!
He increased his OCI by 25%.
He increased his severity of service significantly.
He saw no statistical difference in his wear metals.

Further, here is my UOA from last year. Admittedly, it a diesel and not a gasser, but the concept stays true. I absolutely FLOGGED my rig last year on purpose; running thinner dino HDEO in the heat of AZ and UT and CO, with elevation changes much more "severe" than you'll ever see in the Ozarks.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2323660&page=1
After running a sump that ended up 20% low on capacity, running in heat that can not be exceeded except in Death Valley, pulling a trailer through all those mountain passes, my use would have certainly qualified for "severe". No one could concievably be any harder on the oil and rig that I was on that trip. And yet the UOA was as "normal" as any other and right in line with universal avearages.

Probably one of the most exciting series of UOAs I see forthcoming is here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2664064&page=1
Very repeatable experimentation.
After 11 UOAs with PU, he's now trying dino.
And, he does some towing; equivilant to what he's done in the past.
As this storyline develops, I predict this will be one of the defining moments in BITOG dogma; yes, I think it is that important.


I understand your logic; you are following OEM guidelines. What I'm saying is that you're probably not as severe in reality as you might think, and a quality dino fluid could perform every bit as well for far less cost, if 5-6k miles is going to be your OCI.

The severe service designation in a manual is predicated on the OEM protecting against warranty claims; it has nothing to do with capability. OEM OCI limits are set in lieu of other information. If one does not UOA, then the OEM limits are very (often overly) conservative so that they (the OEM) have low risks and are protecting their wallet, not yours. After all, they don't care about how much an oil change costs you, do they? But, when one has UOA proof that the OCIs can be extended (such as here), or that the severe use really does not manifest into severe wear, then one can venture off the reservation. Especially when the warranty period has expired.
OEM OCIs are a tool to use when UOA information is lacking. But when UOAs are used, you can safely ignore the OEM recommendations outside of warranty. Why pay for UOA information and then not heed it's information? Not only are you wasting oil, you'd be wasting UOA money as well.

To summize, "severe service" nearly always does not result in severe wear.

Why not give it a try? Why not experiement? I can assure you that a couple of runs with dino are NOT going to result in the destruction of your ride.
You have two theories:
1) you need syns
2) your service is severe enough to warrant shorter OCIs relative to the oil chosen
Why not test them?
Run a some Amsoil OE UOAs (perhaps 3 or 4 total); get some data. Find your base standard position.
Then switch to a quality dino oil, under the same use and duration, and run more UOAs.
Find your ROI.
Prove to yourself which is "better".
Determine if severe service = severe wear.

 

[SLCraig]

Love the looks of the OE.
I am going to have to try it sometime.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Jocephus

As far as my experiences with the Amsoil OE, I must say that I've been very happy thus far and had better results on this UOA than I was expecting.

I'm not sure if i'm going to stay with the OE...its a great oil, but when shipping costs are added in it makes it real hard to stay with it. My dealer doesn't keep any Amsoil in stock so this will probably affect my decision next oil change. (After costs and shipping Amsoil OE is about $10 more expensive than locally available premium synthetics)



So are you a PC (Preferred Customer)? Shoot me a PM, and I'll get you signed up. Buy Amsoil from a BITOG site sponsor - help support BITOG

I don't think Amsoil will allow him to be taken away from another dealer?

 

[Jocephus]

Dnewton...perhaps you are still misinterpreting what I put in earlier posts so I will break it down even further using your wonderful signature as a basis...(BTW, would you care if I repeat it to others?)

""Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube. Don't do it the other way around ..."

[i]First Consider your Operating Conditions[/i]
Living in Ft. Drum, NY and Alaska gave me an opportunity to claim the "extreme temperatures". -20 and -30 below are not uncommon. (Actual not windchill). The Vehicle's first 72k miles of life were in these conditions Dino oils aren't even available in the areas I lived. You disagree with my "severe service" criteria the OEM suggests. That's fine with me...it wasn't my choice...but I trust Dahmler-Chrysler engineers that designed the thing and the millions they spent testing the motors. As I've only been living in AR for 6 months and have been flogging the motor pulling a trailer at GVWR I stayed with synthetics and did a UOA. Yes, both cold temps and heavy hauling fit what the OEM says are severe duty. Even then I'm still extending their recommend OCI by nearly double.

next determine your maintenance plan
A maintenance plan of 5k mile OCI's kept me in my warranty period throughout the duration of my 70k extended warranty. As explained above the severe service OEM recommended is OCI is 3k. As i'm now just at 87k miles I can only just now consider extended OCI's. I now have a UOA in hand that proves that this particular engine is in good health and that I can consider extending OCI. This is my baseline UOA in which i'm comparing my future results. Running dino at 5k is a possibility now as stated in one of my earlier posts. I would consider it but if I'm popping up a great UOA on a synthetic that's $4.50 a quart (without shipping) why should I? With that UOA, debating going to dino is difficult if the price difference is $1-2 per quart. Did I mention this could be overkill? Yes. Do I agree that in this particular motor I can probably get a great UOA on a great dino? Absolutely...but as I said, I'm going to err on the side of caution.

then pick your lube. Don't do it the other way around ..."
Perhaps the best statement of the day. I knew that my Jeep was going to spend VERY cold starts, long periods of idling to keep the engine block from freezing, and long highway trips from day one. I chose M1 originally because of availability, reputation, and performance. In my Area of Alaska, Dino oils aren't even available. Now that I am in an area that does not require synthetics...I am trying different lubes. This is why I tried Amsoil OE instead of staying with M1. The Amsoil OE is a respectable price if you take away the high shipping costs (at no fault of Amsoil). At roughly $4.50 a quart this is why I gave it a shot. (Shipping costs drive it up though, which is why I will weigh my options after this next UOA when my Amsoil stock runs out). I did complain that my dealer doesn't keep stock or doesn't combine shipping orders for other customers to get a discount, which is why I mentioned QSUD in a previous post. QSUD is my next in line for consideration. Good UOA's...great price.

Originally Posted By: dnewton3

Why not give it a try? Why not experiement? I can assure you that a couple of runs with dino are NOT going to result in the destruction of your ride.
You have two theories:
1) you need syns
2) your service is severe enough to warrant shorter OCIs relative to the oil chosen
Why not test them?
Run a some Amsoil OE UOAs (perhaps 3 or 4 total); get some data. Find your base standard position.
Then switch to a quality dino oil, under the same use and duration, and run more UOAs.
Find your ROI.
Prove to yourself which is "better".
Determine if severe service = severe wear.


This is exactly what I'm doing. I don't think dino oils will result in the destruction of my ride by any means...where did you get that? I ran my 1st UOA 2 weeks ago. It told me I could go farther than 5k. I'm going to run farther. Then I'm going to test again after this round. On the same oil. Then I'm making a decision on if I want to stay with a proven UOA for $4.50 a quart or if I want to start the process over again to save $10 switching to dino.

Thanks for your points as all were very valid and well taken. I'm doing the stuff that you keep suggesting already.

What it all boils down to is...I'm now 15k miles out of warranty and I'm starting to look at new oils using UOA's and considering extended warranty's. I posted a UOA on the forum because the 3.7 motor has very few UOA's available for other Jeep owners. Plus, there's very few UOA's of Amsoil OE, which has now proven itself to me as being a very good oil.

I AM NOT a "Oh I have to have synthetics" guy. In fact, the vehicles that mean the absolute most to me (my moms Jag and Dads truck that I inherited when they died) have dino in both. Why? Because of how I drive them.

I'm saying that if the price difference is $1-$2 per quart for Syn over Dino, and you're returning great UOA's on Syn stay with it. If over the course of 5k's the price is neck-and-neck stay with it but ONLY IF YOUR CAR DOES WELL ON IT Buying synthetics just to say you use synthetics is idiotic.

I will be perfectly happy running dino oil if it works in the Jeep and I'm popping up good UOA's. I'm only 15k miles out of warranty and only been living in the lower 48 for 6 months.



That being said, thanks for some of the wonderful comments you've made. We're honestly not far apart in terms of our rationale as I totally understand (and don't disagree) what you are saying. However, the price difference between mine and yours is $10.

Joe

 

[Jocephus]

Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Jocephus

As far as my experiences with the Amsoil OE, I must say that I've been very happy thus far and had better results on this UOA than I was expecting.

I'm not sure if i'm going to stay with the OE...its a great oil, but when shipping costs are added in it makes it real hard to stay with it. My dealer doesn't keep any Amsoil in stock so this will probably affect my decision next oil change. (After costs and shipping Amsoil OE is about $10 more expensive than locally available premium synthetics)



So are you a PC (Preferred Customer)? Shoot me a PM, and I'll get you signed up. Buy Amsoil from a BITOG site sponsor - help support BITOG

I don't think Amsoil will allow him to be taken away from another dealer?




To clarify for the rest of the forum...

I did sign up as a PC through Amsoil's website where I was automatically assigned a local dealer here in Arkansas. Pablo did not know this earlier in the thread and IN NO WAY tried to "poach" me from my current dealer.
edit: I signed up before I joined the forum and did not know Pablo was a site sponsor

I PM'ed Pablo explaining him the situation with my dealer and thanked Pablo for supporting the forum.

If a forumite were to ask me where to get Amsoil, I would gladly refer them to contact Pablo because of his support of the forum. If somebody stops me in Arkansas, I would gladly refer him to my local dealer.

 

[dnewton3]

One thing that is missing from your data post is the "universal averages". Please add that column; it makes for a good reference as to what is "normal". When you format the text tool, just add another column on the right for the UAs.

Not knowing where you were at in Alaska, I cannot comment on the "need" for syn. It was not "needed" in NY; the average low in Ft. Drum is +9 degF. Regardless, that need is moot in AR, which is where you're at now.

My comments are valid for your current location and towing conditions.

As I stated earlier, if you extend the OCI, then you're on the right track. If not, your'e wasting money.

You asked for comments and you got them. Not everyone agrees with me, or you, or anyone else. But when I comment on a UOA, I'm presuming that you're not the only one reading it. To be fair, one must admit that there is plenty of evidence that "severe service" does not equal severe wear in reasonable OCIs.

You admit you don't need syns in AR.
You likely don't need them for severe service, even if you leave the oil in past 3k miles.

I don't agree with all your rationale, but then again it's not me you have to please; it's yourself. That's all. I apologize if I misread your intent. I hope I haven't offended you.

 

[Jocephus]

dnewton...

First of all, I appreciate your points. And I do appreciate your comments on the thread. However, I would like to make a few observations.

I understand I am a new member, but as a forumite I need to bring this to your attention. Please do not take this as me being aggressive or attempting to start something. I don't know you, and will determine my decision on how I view you based upon more than a 1 or 2 day thread. I would hope that you do the same.

When I first posted this thread, I received several PM's from other members both good and bad. At first I tried to answer as many as possible through PM but then began answering those questions in the forum (and in turn gave up more personal information than I would like to on the internet). The questions that came up pertained to weather, about the sodium in the oil and ways to correct it, and all points in between. Then I got the one PM that made me raise my eyebrows.

"Looks great, but I'm not saying it in the thread". Are people really not participating in the thread out of fear of reprisal?

Please, in the future....If you want to debate synthetics vs dino, by all means lets start yet another rehashed thread in a different thread that ISN'T OFF TOPIC FROM THE USED OIL ANALAYSIS that I posted. You keep telling me that I'm wasting my money. Do you mean the $10 per oil change difference synthetics cost me? I've already said I don't care about the 10 bucks and that I won't go to Starbucks one time over the course of the 5k miles of use to make up for the difference.

I'll gladly run any oil you would like to purchase for my vehicle if you're so worried about my $10. Heck, I'll even let you pay for the UOA after 5k miles.

The UOA I posted had some sodium...comment on that. Comment on how I like the oil. Comment on the motor or what I did maintenance wise on the Jeep. Don't try to split hairs and argue that 9 degree average lows in January in Fort Drum don't qualify as a low temp. I can easily come out and show that some days it was t-shirt weather and some days it was -20 below in the same month and then averages to 9 degrees...then you'll argue something else. See, how it keeps going farther and farther from the UOA interpretation and analysis?

Thanks for keeping it civil and keeping from cussing and ranting and raving. Although you kept the argument civil (and I appreciate it) I can honestly say this thread has gone to the birds.

I'm a new forum member that paid good money to Blackstone (site sponsor) on a product that is sold by another site sponsor...for the benefit of the forum. Yet your participation in the thread has people 1) not posting in it and 2) probably reconsidering posting their own threads. and 3) possibly reconsidering utilizing the services of a site sponsor.

I posted this thread so that people can see how a Jeep 3.6L did on Amsoil OE 5w30 did. It passed with flying colors. You took it into a whole other realm.

If guys post UOA's and their UOA's are constantly and aggressively gone after, guess what...they're not going to do UOA's...therefore Blackstone loses money. See my point? When recruiting other sponsors (valvoline, etc) how quick would they pull their funding if this ended up being an internet version of Jersey Shore?

Please, in the future, take a step back and consider the direction your comments might take a thread. You're an intelligent dude that I honestly think is not very different from myself in analysis/recommendations

I look forward to my future participation in this forum and think that you and I both can bring things to the table. Best of luck to you.

Apologies to the rest of the internet as to my behavior...I've tried to answer every question pertaining to my UOA as openly and honestly as I can and would welcome anybody else's further comments and questions.

Joe

 

[Turk]

Yea, I have been put off on posting too; and I'm not one of them who PM'd you.

I have now kept my UOA opinions down to very few, short and generic on purpose, so I don't get subjected to and have to deal with water torture.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Jocephus

To clarify for the rest of the forum...

I did sign up as a PC through Amsoil's website where I was automatically assigned a local dealer here in Arkansas. Pablo did not know this earlier in the thread and IN NO WAY tried to "poach" me from my current dealer.
edit: I signed up before I joined the forum and did not know Pablo was a site sponsor

I PM'ed Pablo explaining him the situation with my dealer and thanked Pablo for supporting the forum.

If a forumite were to ask me where to get Amsoil, I would gladly refer them to contact Pablo because of his support of the forum. If somebody stops me in Arkansas, I would gladly refer him to my local dealer.


Exactly - Thanks!