In defense of the Toyota fluid... it had 20K but remember, it also had break-in materials floating around. Once they are flushed out, I'm sure the Toyota fluid is just fine, as has been shown on our 2002 Toyota Avalon, and we are at 85K.
Amsoil ATF Vs. Toyota T-IV - Whats the real deal?
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Quote:
I lack the credentials to give you accurate info regarding your particular UOA, as does unDummy. Thus I'm not going to try to misinform you.
Very reasonable approach. We see so few ATF UOA's, it's difficult to even compare.
I lack the credentials to give you accurate info regarding your particular UOA, as does unDummy. Thus I'm not going to try to misinform you.
Very reasonable approach. We see so few ATF UOA's, it's difficult to even compare.
I have Amsoil 75w90 in both the diff and transfer. I'm planning on changing that every 48km. Cheap drain & fills as they only hold a quart each.
Toyota T-IV costs around $9 while Amsoil ATF costs around $12. So what it comes down to is what will protect better, T-IV at 24km or Amsoil ATF at 32km? If Amsoil will last 48km its a no-brainer, 32 km and its a toss up, anything less than that I'll stick with T-IV.
P.S. Does ATF last only a certain length, time wise? Or does it require only replacement based on mileage?
Toyota T-IV costs around $9 while Amsoil ATF costs around $12. So what it comes down to is what will protect better, T-IV at 24km or Amsoil ATF at 32km? If Amsoil will last 48km its a no-brainer, 32 km and its a toss up, anything less than that I'll stick with T-IV.
P.S. Does ATF last only a certain length, time wise? Or does it require only replacement based on mileage?
byez,
You will have no issue with the Amsoil ATF protecting well for 48km. I'd be willing to bet it would do well through 48k miles, as well.
I believe under normal conditions, you'd want to change based on mileage. If you're going to store the vehicle for a length of time, you might consider a fluid change (oil first), but if the vehicle is being operated at least once per week, you should be okay. I believe the ATF is subject to becoming acidic over a period of mileage, depending upon your trip distances and type of driving.
You will have no issue with the Amsoil ATF protecting well for 48km. I'd be willing to bet it would do well through 48k miles, as well.
I believe under normal conditions, you'd want to change based on mileage. If you're going to store the vehicle for a length of time, you might consider a fluid change (oil first), but if the vehicle is being operated at least once per week, you should be okay. I believe the ATF is subject to becoming acidic over a period of mileage, depending upon your trip distances and type of driving.
Originally Posted By: dkryan
Blackstone suggested the T-IV be changed due to high wear metals. UnDummy agreed with that assessment. I trust UnDummy and Blackstone a great deal more than I trust you.
Blackstone's comments are for entertainment purposes only (as has been said before). However, I don't believe that is the same for undummy.
Just curious, how did Blackstone earn your trust?
Blackstone suggested the T-IV be changed due to high wear metals. UnDummy agreed with that assessment. I trust UnDummy and Blackstone a great deal more than I trust you.
Blackstone's comments are for entertainment purposes only (as has been said before). However, I don't believe that is the same for undummy.
Just curious, how did Blackstone earn your trust?
Toyotas tend to sell to older more conservative buyers. Ever look at Toyota sales statistics? This alone is a reason why these cars last long even with poor maintenance. T-IV is nothing special. I don't care to use it and I do yank Toyota's ATF drainplug in the driveway every year, and refill with one of the universal or multivehicle ATFs.
You should also take an OE recommendation as such and not as the Bible. When fear of engine sludge smacked Toyotas accountants and lawyers around, Toyota dumped their highly recommended 7.5k oil change interval and blanketed the 5k OCI. The 60k ATF interval will work great for my retired parents who don't break speed limits, don't ever drive in traffic, don't ever use the (#@$ing gas pedal.......
Why don't OEM hire us? I have worked for suppliers and can tell you that what is in the best interest for the consumer competes with the bottom line. Profit is more important to accountants. Elimination of maintenance hassle is very important to the marketing staff.
Critic, why don't you get 20-30 years of work experience in the REAL world?
A UOA isn't for entertainment purposes. Many have found problems that can be addressed.
Credentials? I don't have an English degree but I can read and reply to this thread. It helps to understand what a UOA measures but you don't need to be a genius to read it or even have any credentials to understand it. All the credentials in the world are meaningless if no common sense is being used to address issues. Lack of common sense is pretty common in the work force.
Which is better? Thats for you to decide.
You should also take an OE recommendation as such and not as the Bible. When fear of engine sludge smacked Toyotas accountants and lawyers around, Toyota dumped their highly recommended 7.5k oil change interval and blanketed the 5k OCI. The 60k ATF interval will work great for my retired parents who don't break speed limits, don't ever drive in traffic, don't ever use the (#@$ing gas pedal.......
Why don't OEM hire us? I have worked for suppliers and can tell you that what is in the best interest for the consumer competes with the bottom line. Profit is more important to accountants. Elimination of maintenance hassle is very important to the marketing staff.
Critic, why don't you get 20-30 years of work experience in the REAL world?
A UOA isn't for entertainment purposes. Many have found problems that can be addressed.
Credentials? I don't have an English degree but I can read and reply to this thread. It helps to understand what a UOA measures but you don't need to be a genius to read it or even have any credentials to understand it. All the credentials in the world are meaningless if no common sense is being used to address issues. Lack of common sense is pretty common in the work force.
Which is better? Thats for you to decide.
Quote:
Toyotas tend to sell to older more conservative buyers. Ever look at Toyota sales statistics? This alone is a reason why these cars last long even with poor maintenance. T-IV is nothing special. I don't care to use it and I do yank Toyota's ATF drainplug in the driveway every year, and refill with one of the universal or multivehicle ATFs.
I don't see Scions at transmission shops, and you and I know both know the demographics of the buyers and drivers.
Quote:
Why don't OEM hire us? I have worked for suppliers and can tell you that what is in the best interest for the consumer competes with the bottom line. Profit is more important to accountants. Elimination of maintenance hassle is very important to the marketing staff.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with that. OEMs don't exist to design parts that last forever. In fact, many of their customers don't care if the transmission doesn't last beyond 200k, or even 150k.
Quote:
but you don't need to be a genius to read it or even have any credentials to understand it. All the credentials in the world are meaningless if no common sense is being used to address issues. Lack of common sense is pretty common in the work force.
Whatever. There are too many out there that refuse to give up their old habits (hint: the annual ATF change crowd) and refuse to accept that fluids have gotten BETTER since the dark ages. Instead of accepting that things have changed, they use the lame "common sense" argument.
Toyotas tend to sell to older more conservative buyers. Ever look at Toyota sales statistics? This alone is a reason why these cars last long even with poor maintenance. T-IV is nothing special. I don't care to use it and I do yank Toyota's ATF drainplug in the driveway every year, and refill with one of the universal or multivehicle ATFs.
I don't see Scions at transmission shops, and you and I know both know the demographics of the buyers and drivers.
Quote:
Why don't OEM hire us? I have worked for suppliers and can tell you that what is in the best interest for the consumer competes with the bottom line. Profit is more important to accountants. Elimination of maintenance hassle is very important to the marketing staff.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with that. OEMs don't exist to design parts that last forever. In fact, many of their customers don't care if the transmission doesn't last beyond 200k, or even 150k.
Quote:
but you don't need to be a genius to read it or even have any credentials to understand it. All the credentials in the world are meaningless if no common sense is being used to address issues. Lack of common sense is pretty common in the work force.
Whatever. There are too many out there that refuse to give up their old habits (hint: the annual ATF change crowd) and refuse to accept that fluids have gotten BETTER since the dark ages. Instead of accepting that things have changed, they use the lame "common sense" argument.
Originally Posted By: dkryan
The Cricket:
"Whatever" is a lame response.
What's even more lame is your response (and the last 5,262 posts you've made on this board) that lack of common sense is a lame argument.
Sorry, I think I should have explained myself in a different way. Please disregard the last portion of my previous post.
While a certain practice may normally be deemed as an act of common sense (such as more frequent fluid changes being better), it isn't necessarily the case. Fluids last longer today than they did in the past, and the "common sense approach" to servicing vehicles is no longer necessary and its added benefits are questionable.
The Cricket:
"Whatever" is a lame response.
What's even more lame is your response (and the last 5,262 posts you've made on this board) that lack of common sense is a lame argument.
Sorry, I think I should have explained myself in a different way. Please disregard the last portion of my previous post.
While a certain practice may normally be deemed as an act of common sense (such as more frequent fluid changes being better), it isn't necessarily the case. Fluids last longer today than they did in the past, and the "common sense approach" to servicing vehicles is no longer necessary and its added benefits are questionable.
This thread is quickly spiraling into he said she said.
Case and point: NOBODY in this thread is an expert.
Now seriously, please grow up... no personal attacks. Read the board rules.
Case and point: NOBODY in this thread is an expert.
Now seriously, please grow up... no personal attacks. Read the board rules.
Jeep,
It all depends upon how you qualify someone as an 'expert'. Also, you don't usually know who is behind the monitor. I do believe there are one or two here that are experts.
It all depends upon how you qualify someone as an 'expert'. Also, you don't usually know who is behind the monitor. I do believe there are one or two here that are experts.
Aw come on. We are all experts compared to the general public................
dang this turned into a cat fight lol... this is too funny.. to tIV or not to TIV, that is the question.. ill continue to use it and start her on the same 15k mile drain and fills as i do with my tacoma
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