Most wouldn't claim no consumption. Plenty, including myself for my G37, claim no noticeable consumption. That's not the same thing.
All IC engines burn oil...
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Most wouldn't claim no consumption. Plenty, including myself for my G37, claim no noticeable consumption. That's not the same thing.
How do you not notice a half quart or even a quarter? Over an OCI it can't be much less than that.
And I don't understand why people are so proud.
Most wouldn't claim no consumption. Plenty, including myself for my G37, claim no noticeable consumption. That's not the same thing.
How do you not notice a half quart or even a quarter? Over an OCI it can't be much less than that.
And I don't understand why people are so proud.
With all due respect, you've made a rough calculation, you haven't discovered a new physical law. Given that sumps aren't linear and dipsticks aren't accurately graduated, it's extremely easy not to notice. Add to the fact that many people don't check their oil under the exact same environmental conditions each time, and some dipsticks are just a marvel of engineering cheapness and poor design, it's not surprising.
Some of the taxis burned a very noticeable amount of oil in a week. Others did not. My LTD was absolutely terrible. It was very noticeable.
Some of the taxis burned a very noticeable amount of oil in a week. Others did not. My LTD was absolutely terrible. It was very noticeable.
Originally Posted By: Garak
With all due respect,
You don't get it. It's a mental illness thing. It's an OCD AR thing. Life may be in ruins but hey, I've got one that doesn't burn oil.
With all due respect,
You don't get it. It's a mental illness thing. It's an OCD AR thing. Life may be in ruins but hey, I've got one that doesn't burn oil.
Oh, I get it, you're branching out. Submit it for inclusion in the next DSM then.
Haw. Great stuff here. No single value will extrapolate oil consumption for all vehicles. Too many variables.
We have everything from a new 5.7 to 200k mile 6.0 engines in our driveway. Most have no measurable consumption. My sig car never shows any, even with track days.
I've had british cars that used tons of oil. Don't miss them a bit...
We have everything from a new 5.7 to 200k mile 6.0 engines in our driveway. Most have no measurable consumption. My sig car never shows any, even with track days.
I've had british cars that used tons of oil. Don't miss them a bit...
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Shannow, your access to the analyses on the most obscure, interesting, and arcane topics of lubrication continues to amaze me.
Agreed.
He is one of the few members here that make this site as factual as it is. And he humours me in my odd conspiracy theory and my belief that pyramids are power plants.
He's very knowledgeable in so many fields this small area we prod at BITOG is barely the tip of the pyramid.
Hehehe.
Shannow, your access to the analyses on the most obscure, interesting, and arcane topics of lubrication continues to amaze me.
Agreed.
He is one of the few members here that make this site as factual as it is. And he humours me in my odd conspiracy theory and my belief that pyramids are power plants.
He's very knowledgeable in so many fields this small area we prod at BITOG is barely the tip of the pyramid.
Hehehe.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Garak
Most wouldn't claim no consumption. Plenty, including myself for my G37, claim no noticeable consumption. That's not the same thing.
How do you not notice a half quart or even a quarter? Over an OCI it can't be much less than that.
And I don't understand why people are so proud.
THAT engine uses 3cc per hour. I see plenty of engines that after a 12,500 mile OCI still have the oil level on maximum. I also see some that are low or don't have any oil showing on the dipstick after the oci.
the engine in my own car might have used a half quart in the first few thousand miles but the dipstick was hard to read with clean oil, it took about 5k miles before the oil darkened (yes, a diesel).
After that, the oil level never moved anymore from where I set it.
My average speed is only about 20 Mph though, but I regularly see 100 Mph or higher (when I get a chance, a couple of times per week)
Originally Posted By: Garak
Most wouldn't claim no consumption. Plenty, including myself for my G37, claim no noticeable consumption. That's not the same thing.
How do you not notice a half quart or even a quarter? Over an OCI it can't be much less than that.
And I don't understand why people are so proud.
THAT engine uses 3cc per hour. I see plenty of engines that after a 12,500 mile OCI still have the oil level on maximum. I also see some that are low or don't have any oil showing on the dipstick after the oci.
the engine in my own car might have used a half quart in the first few thousand miles but the dipstick was hard to read with clean oil, it took about 5k miles before the oil darkened (yes, a diesel).
After that, the oil level never moved anymore from where I set it.
My average speed is only about 20 Mph though, but I regularly see 100 Mph or higher (when I get a chance, a couple of times per week)
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I fixed this for you.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
The paper says .05 cubic centimeter per minute (For the Vauxhaul-based engine referenced in the paper, which may or may not be representative of most engines)
.05 * 60 = 3cc per hour. At an average of 30mph a normal 5000mi oil change would have the engine running at 166.66 hours. (For THAT engine)
166.66 * 3 = 500 or half a liter (for THAT engine)
Tales of no oil consumption are tall ones, but I guess some guys get extremely turned on by the thought that their vehicle burns no oil. That's the only explanation I can come up with.
Seems to me your imagination, as well as your deductive reasoning, is somewhat limited. That or your extrapolation skills are on overload.
All that the numbers above can conclude is that in the Vauxhaul-based engine that was referenced in that paper, oil consumption was in the range of .05ml / minute and that for that specific engine, roughly half of a liter would be consumed in 5000 miles.
This certainly does not equate to a conclusion that ALL engines would burn this same amount. The data just simply does not support that.
---
I can say without a doubt that for the last two oil changes on my 2010 Fusion 2.5l engine, there was no noticeable drop in oil level from when I put the oil in, to the day I drained it, ~7500 miles later.
I'm about 3500 miles into my current OCI, and I still see no noticeable drop. This engine has 196,000 miles on it currently, is driven approximately 75 highway miles per day @ 70-80mph, 5 days / week. I would think that if an engine would be prone to consuming oil, this would be a good example. Fact is, it's not consuming any appreciable amount.
Am I bragging? No. Just stating the facts.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
The paper says .05 cubic centimeter per minute (For the Vauxhaul-based engine referenced in the paper, which may or may not be representative of most engines)
.05 * 60 = 3cc per hour. At an average of 30mph a normal 5000mi oil change would have the engine running at 166.66 hours. (For THAT engine)
166.66 * 3 = 500 or half a liter (for THAT engine)
Tales of no oil consumption are tall ones, but I guess some guys get extremely turned on by the thought that their vehicle burns no oil. That's the only explanation I can come up with.
Seems to me your imagination, as well as your deductive reasoning, is somewhat limited. That or your extrapolation skills are on overload.
All that the numbers above can conclude is that in the Vauxhaul-based engine that was referenced in that paper, oil consumption was in the range of .05ml / minute and that for that specific engine, roughly half of a liter would be consumed in 5000 miles.
This certainly does not equate to a conclusion that ALL engines would burn this same amount. The data just simply does not support that.
---
I can say without a doubt that for the last two oil changes on my 2010 Fusion 2.5l engine, there was no noticeable drop in oil level from when I put the oil in, to the day I drained it, ~7500 miles later.
I'm about 3500 miles into my current OCI, and I still see no noticeable drop. This engine has 196,000 miles on it currently, is driven approximately 75 highway miles per day @ 70-80mph, 5 days / week. I would think that if an engine would be prone to consuming oil, this would be a good example. Fact is, it's not consuming any appreciable amount.
Am I bragging? No. Just stating the facts.
Originally Posted By: SirTanon
Am I bragging? No. Just stating the facts.
Be careful. Should someone you know see your comments, they could use them to have you declared incompetent and institutionalized.
Am I bragging? No. Just stating the facts.
Be careful. Should someone you know see your comments, they could use them to have you declared incompetent and institutionalized.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: KGMtech
So, I know from my engineering education and spending time here that every internal combustion engine uses a very small amount of oil with each power stroke.
The reason people are adament that their engine doesn't use oil is because the crankcase is also gradually filling up with unburnt fuel, or water that gives the dipstick a full reading even if the ratio of 100% engine oil in sump is not as it was at last change.
So my question is: For an engine with no external leaks, can there be a measure to determine what level of oil depletion is to be expected from the power cycle burn off x number of revolutions x number of cylinders?
Transfer to Iowa State and we'll teach you right!
So, I know from my engineering education and spending time here that every internal combustion engine uses a very small amount of oil with each power stroke.
The reason people are adament that their engine doesn't use oil is because the crankcase is also gradually filling up with unburnt fuel, or water that gives the dipstick a full reading even if the ratio of 100% engine oil in sump is not as it was at last change.
So my question is: For an engine with no external leaks, can there be a measure to determine what level of oil depletion is to be expected from the power cycle burn off x number of revolutions x number of cylinders?
Transfer to Iowa State and we'll teach you right!
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Originally Posted By: SirTanon
I'm about 3500 miles into my current OCI, and I still see no noticeable drop. This engine has 196,000 miles on it currently, is driven approximately 75 highway miles per day @ 70-80mph, 5 days / week. I would think that if an engine would be prone to consuming oil, this would be a good example. Fact is, it's not consuming any appreciable amount.
Am I bragging? No. Just stating the facts.
196K miles and it doesn't consume oil.
Ok, Do I hear anyone with a 500k mile engine that doesn't burn any oil?
Going once going twice. Anything is possible on the internet.
I'm about 3500 miles into my current OCI, and I still see no noticeable drop. This engine has 196,000 miles on it currently, is driven approximately 75 highway miles per day @ 70-80mph, 5 days / week. I would think that if an engine would be prone to consuming oil, this would be a good example. Fact is, it's not consuming any appreciable amount.
Am I bragging? No. Just stating the facts.
196K miles and it doesn't consume oil.
Ok, Do I hear anyone with a 500k mile engine that doesn't burn any oil?
Going once going twice. Anything is possible on the internet.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: SirTanon
I'm about 3500 miles into my current OCI, and I still see no noticeable drop. This engine has 196,000 miles on it currently, is driven approximately 75 highway miles per day @ 70-80mph, 5 days / week. I would think that if an engine would be prone to consuming oil, this would be a good example. Fact is, it's not consuming any appreciable amount.
Am I bragging? No. Just stating the facts.
196K miles and it doesn't noticeably consume oil.
Ok, Do I hear anyone with a 500k mile engine that doesn't burn any oil?
Going once going twice. Anything is possible on the internet.
Fixed that for you again. Funny how you keep forgetting that part.
Originally Posted By: SirTanon
I'm about 3500 miles into my current OCI, and I still see no noticeable drop. This engine has 196,000 miles on it currently, is driven approximately 75 highway miles per day @ 70-80mph, 5 days / week. I would think that if an engine would be prone to consuming oil, this would be a good example. Fact is, it's not consuming any appreciable amount.
Am I bragging? No. Just stating the facts.
196K miles and it doesn't noticeably consume oil.
Ok, Do I hear anyone with a 500k mile engine that doesn't burn any oil?
Going once going twice. Anything is possible on the internet.
Fixed that for you again. Funny how you keep forgetting that part.
~ 1950-55 GM made a statement that their Olds Rocket V8 would consume oil at a rate of .01 to 0.1 OZ per gallon of fuel consumed. I did the calculation and it came out that the GM engine would be expected to use a ~ quart in 4,000 to 6,000 miles as best as I can remember. Remember this was in the early 1950s. That is the reason that I say GM LIES today that up to 1 quart/1,000 miles is normal. Ed
I have not had consumption in any vehicle I have owned and maintained.
Only exception was when I ran Amsoil in a 3.0 V6 it was down about 1/4 liter, went back to regular synthetic and consumption went away.
Only exception was when I ran Amsoil in a 3.0 V6 it was down about 1/4 liter, went back to regular synthetic and consumption went away.
I just realized something. The 1972 Pontiac Catalina that was my first car did not require that I add any oil between OC's. That was only 3,000 miles at the time. The car I currently have is a 2012 Mazda 3 that does not require make up oil, either. Notice how I worded those statements. I did not claim no oil consumption, only that the dipstick did not indicate a need to add oil. The 1989 Accord I drove for 23 years and 353,000 miles required make-up oil, sometimes as much as one quart per 2,000 miles during my 10,000 mile synthetic OCI's. That vintage of Honda engine had somewhat leaky valve guides and valve stem seals. It did this from new. As time progressed I learned that certain oils (Rotella T6 5W-40) reduced consumption to about a quart every 3-4K miles. Yet, that car's engine maintained compression, power, and fuel economy throughout its entire life.
So, MY conclusion is that oil consumption - within reason - is an inconvenience, but means little else.
So, MY conclusion is that oil consumption - within reason - is an inconvenience, but means little else.
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