AFE vs K&N
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Besides, the ProDry S and I did oil it lightly even though it's a non-oil filter. You're not supposed to oil it...just something I did anyway to see what happened, stopped all dirt for me like the factory oiled Fram high efficiency air filter "Toughguard" so I guess the media is probably pretty tight. (even though its not a fair test.)
I been running this ProDryS with a little oil on it for 3-4 months on the truck and the intake tube is squeaky clean.
FWIW:
I put a little WD40 on the Toyota and retested it much cleaner. 8 grams dirt in all cases from the same batch of dirt.
Toyota OEM, Fram TG, Fram regular (all dry and new out of the box.)
8 grams each from the same batch of dirt. The second Toyota OEM here has a little WD40 sprayed on it and tested much cleaner.
I do not recommend oiling any filter unless you know it won't hurt anything. I took the risk but it's my truck.
I been running this ProDryS with a little oil on it for 3-4 months on the truck and the intake tube is squeaky clean.
FWIW:
I put a little WD40 on the Toyota and retested it much cleaner. 8 grams dirt in all cases from the same batch of dirt.
Toyota OEM, Fram TG, Fram regular (all dry and new out of the box.)
8 grams each from the same batch of dirt. The second Toyota OEM here has a little WD40 sprayed on it and tested much cleaner.
I do not recommend oiling any filter unless you know it won't hurt anything. I took the risk but it's my truck.
If my Silicon readings are high on my Civic after my current cleanup attempts and subsequent UOA with K&N still(not knowing what they are now, assuming worst case scenario)...then I may go with the dry AFE.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
George, did you test a regular Pro 5R, not the Proguard 7?
Hi Drew-
we don't test them ourselves - it would be too expensive, and we are a small consumer site. But we collect test results, and we have accumulated a lot of them. Unfortunately, we have not been able to get an ISO 5011 test for the Pro R
Sorry!
George, did you test a regular Pro 5R, not the Proguard 7?
Hi Drew-
we don't test them ourselves - it would be too expensive, and we are a small consumer site. But we collect test results, and we have accumulated a lot of them. Unfortunately, we have not been able to get an ISO 5011 test for the Pro R
Sorry!Originally Posted By: river_rat
I put a little WD40 on the Toyota and retested it much cleaner. 8 grams dirt in all cases from the same batch of dirt.
Toyota OEM, Fram TG, Fram regular (all dry and new out of the box.)
Hi River_Rat-
can you describe your test in more detail? I did not quite follow what you did. I am interested
Take care -
I put a little WD40 on the Toyota and retested it much cleaner. 8 grams dirt in all cases from the same batch of dirt.
Toyota OEM, Fram TG, Fram regular (all dry and new out of the box.)
Hi River_Rat-
can you describe your test in more detail? I did not quite follow what you did. I am interested
Take care -
Originally Posted By: GeorgeGear
can you describe your test in more detail? I did not quite follow what you did. I am interested
Take care -
I guess you could call it a "test" but more of a relative evaluation for my own use...like the oil filter series I did.
I swore I would never post it here because of the criticism of it's crudeness from people who don't read the posts, but here it is.
Just collected some good "sneeze grade" dirt as I call it from my crawlspace. Hasn't seen a drop of rain since to '50s so when
you blow on a palm full, it turns into a cloud...similar to fine gravel road dust.
Strained out the finest stuff and bagged it.
For each filter:
-I remixed the bag and measured out 8 grams on a powder scale.
-sealed an oil rag over to vacuum screen with duct tape
-sealed a new filter of the cardboard template on top
-let the dirt on with a sprinkle top bottle (old spice container)over about 4 minutes time
-tapped the filter a little with a screwdiver handle until more more loose dirt was sitting in piles on the filter...though the oiled filters did not let the dirt disappear into the filter compeltely, because it sticks in the top layers of media and stays dark looking.
The cleanest rag here was from the Fram TG (factory oiled) and was then reused for the ProDry S (oiled by me...see my previous post on that matter) and stayed clean. That's all. The Totoya OEM kept showing a lot of dirt, more than the regular, dry Fram, even when I experimented with oiling it, it let more dirt through than the ProDry. I was a little dissappointed.
But none of them let any signifiacant dirt show until I tapped the filters lightly...so maybe I am looking at the worst case scenario of a very loaded filter and rough roads?
It is what it is.
can you describe your test in more detail? I did not quite follow what you did. I am interested
Take care -
I guess you could call it a "test" but more of a relative evaluation for my own use...like the oil filter series I did.
I swore I would never post it here because of the criticism of it's crudeness from people who don't read the posts, but here it is.
Just collected some good "sneeze grade" dirt as I call it from my crawlspace. Hasn't seen a drop of rain since to '50s so when
you blow on a palm full, it turns into a cloud...similar to fine gravel road dust.
Strained out the finest stuff and bagged it.
For each filter:
-I remixed the bag and measured out 8 grams on a powder scale.
-sealed an oil rag over to vacuum screen with duct tape
-sealed a new filter of the cardboard template on top
-let the dirt on with a sprinkle top bottle (old spice container)over about 4 minutes time
-tapped the filter a little with a screwdiver handle until more more loose dirt was sitting in piles on the filter...though the oiled filters did not let the dirt disappear into the filter compeltely, because it sticks in the top layers of media and stays dark looking.
The cleanest rag here was from the Fram TG (factory oiled) and was then reused for the ProDry S (oiled by me...see my previous post on that matter) and stayed clean. That's all. The Totoya OEM kept showing a lot of dirt, more than the regular, dry Fram, even when I experimented with oiling it, it let more dirt through than the ProDry. I was a little dissappointed.
But none of them let any signifiacant dirt show until I tapped the filters lightly...so maybe I am looking at the worst case scenario of a very loaded filter and rough roads?
It is what it is.
Which type of oil did you apply to the ProDry S ? K&N oil ?
I really like your test - simple and effective.
Just to be clear on all the parameters:
- at the bottom of the box, on the other side of the oil rag, you had suction into a vacuum cleaner, is that correct?
- when you say 4 minutes, do you mean that the suction was on for 4 minutes, or that it took you 4 minutes to sprinkle the dust?
- do you have a feeling for how much suction you were using, totally qualitatively?
Btw - you were totally right about your choice of dust. There is evidence that fine test dust is much more appropriate than coarse air dust to replicate real road conditions. As to why you saw so much dirt through - I have two thoughts (possibly neither being valid:
- 8 grams = almost 2 months of driving according to Ford's data, so it's quite a bit of equivalent driving time - dirt could just be normal
- maybe your sneeze-grade dist has a high % of sub-10 micron particles, which are typically able to make it through air filters
Mo2c - could be totally wrong But I am surprised by the poor performance of the Toyota OEM (is it made by Nippon Denso?). FRAM TG is one of the filters for which we have no data. Wish we did! Take care - George
Just to be clear on all the parameters:
- at the bottom of the box, on the other side of the oil rag, you had suction into a vacuum cleaner, is that correct?
- when you say 4 minutes, do you mean that the suction was on for 4 minutes, or that it took you 4 minutes to sprinkle the dust?
- do you have a feeling for how much suction you were using, totally qualitatively?
Btw - you were totally right about your choice of dust. There is evidence that fine test dust is much more appropriate than coarse air dust to replicate real road conditions. As to why you saw so much dirt through - I have two thoughts (possibly neither being valid
:- 8 grams = almost 2 months of driving according to Ford's data, so it's quite a bit of equivalent driving time - dirt could just be normal
- maybe your sneeze-grade dist has a high % of sub-10 micron particles, which are typically able to make it through air filters
Mo2c - could be totally wrong
But I am surprised by the poor performance of the Toyota OEM (is it made by Nippon Denso?). FRAM TG is one of the filters for which we have no data. Wish we did! Take care - GeorgeOriginally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Which type of oil did you apply to the ProDry S ? K&N oil ?
Yeah, it's convenient and fairly sticky.
Yes, George, shop type vac under the rag/screen.
4 minutes about to sprinkle dust.
No idea on the rest of the stuff regarding flow or dirt microns used. The vacuum does move a pretty good breeze though. A lot of air out the outlet nipple when hooked to the rig here.
I was just happy to find something that went through the filters in visibly varying degrees so I could compare.
Previously I had tried smoke...no good. It pretty much all went through and stained. Nothing to campare.
Tried blue powdered chalk that is used for refilling carpenter's chalkline boxes....no good. None went through. Nothing to compare.
You get the idea.
Glad to finally find some dirt I could look at and see that..."Ah this filter always leaves the rag clean...this one looks terrible..."
The OEM here is for a Tacoma which has and non-changable after filter. That may be the difference in engineering.
Which type of oil did you apply to the ProDry S ? K&N oil ?
Yeah, it's convenient and fairly sticky.
Yes, George, shop type vac under the rag/screen.
4 minutes about to sprinkle dust.
No idea on the rest of the stuff regarding flow or dirt microns used. The vacuum does move a pretty good breeze though. A lot of air out the outlet nipple when hooked to the rig here.
I was just happy to find something that went through the filters in visibly varying degrees so I could compare.
Previously I had tried smoke...no good. It pretty much all went through and stained. Nothing to campare.
Tried blue powdered chalk that is used for refilling carpenter's chalkline boxes....no good. None went through. Nothing to compare.
You get the idea.
Glad to finally find some dirt I could look at and see that..."Ah this filter always leaves the rag clean...this one looks terrible..."
The OEM here is for a Tacoma which has and non-changable after filter. That may be the difference in engineering.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
BTW, got my ProGuard 7 in the mail yesterday...It's one well made filter by the looks (and weight) of the thing.
Is this for your Navara? IIRC, you put a snorkel on it, didn't you? If you don't mind my asking, what brand is it and how do you like it? I've been thinking about getting either a Frontier (our Navara), or a Suzuki Equator (same truck with mild styling changes and a better warranty).
Thanks
BTW, got my ProGuard 7 in the mail yesterday...It's one well made filter by the looks (and weight) of the thing.
Is this for your Navara? IIRC, you put a snorkel on it, didn't you? If you don't mind my asking, what brand is it and how do you like it? I've been thinking about getting either a Frontier (our Navara), or a Suzuki Equator (same truck with mild styling changes and a better warranty).
Thanks
Yep, put a Nissan snorkel on my Navara late last year.
Nissan snorkel fitted up to the pre-cyclone with the dust release teat, while the aftermarket ones went straight to the main filter.
Hands looked like I'd done 10 rounds with the Tassie Devil after instal, and there was a very 60s Batmobile roar at 2800-3000RPM under acceleration. Seems to be worth around half a gear, and a couple percent better mileage on the diesel.
There's obvious suction at idle, and the suction pressure appears neutral at 100km/hr, vs whatever was previously sucking through the LHS wheel well.
Nissan snorkel fitted up to the pre-cyclone with the dust release teat, while the aftermarket ones went straight to the main filter.
Hands looked like I'd done 10 rounds with the Tassie Devil after instal, and there was a very 60s Batmobile roar at 2800-3000RPM under acceleration. Seems to be worth around half a gear, and a couple percent better mileage on the diesel.
There's obvious suction at idle, and the suction pressure appears neutral at 100km/hr, vs whatever was previously sucking through the LHS wheel well.
My UOA came back with 18 ppm of Si at 5,000 miles. If it's up again at my next UOA, I'll probably go with the Pro Dry S, over the Pro 5 R.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Yep, put a Nissan snorkel on my Navara late last year.
Nissan snorkel fitted up to the pre-cyclone with the dust release teat, while the aftermarket ones went straight to the main filter.
Hands looked like I'd done 10 rounds with the Tassie Devil after instal, and there was a very 60s Batmobile roar at 2800-3000RPM under acceleration. Seems to be worth around half a gear, and a couple percent better mileage on the diesel.
There's obvious suction at idle, and the suction pressure appears neutral at 100km/hr, vs whatever was previously sucking through the LHS wheel well.
Nice. I haven't seen a Nissan branded snorkel up here. I've seen ARB and TJM units, though. I understand that there is one from Safari, but I've never seen one. I'll have to do some research on just what I can get my hands on.
I wish the diesel was available here, but we're limited to just the V6. Oh well, it is what it is...
Yep, put a Nissan snorkel on my Navara late last year.
Nissan snorkel fitted up to the pre-cyclone with the dust release teat, while the aftermarket ones went straight to the main filter.
Hands looked like I'd done 10 rounds with the Tassie Devil after instal, and there was a very 60s Batmobile roar at 2800-3000RPM under acceleration. Seems to be worth around half a gear, and a couple percent better mileage on the diesel.
There's obvious suction at idle, and the suction pressure appears neutral at 100km/hr, vs whatever was previously sucking through the LHS wheel well.
Nice. I haven't seen a Nissan branded snorkel up here. I've seen ARB and TJM units, though. I understand that there is one from Safari, but I've never seen one. I'll have to do some research on just what I can get my hands on.
I wish the diesel was available here, but we're limited to just the V6. Oh well, it is what it is...
I'm thinking that Nissan would be able to get you one.
Workmate got a d40, with a Nissan supplied bull bar ad winch...ride height was too low, and they brought in some US market springs to suit (from Japan, but they had a global parts list)
Workmate got a d40, with a Nissan supplied bull bar ad winch...ride height was too low, and they brought in some US market springs to suit (from Japan, but they had a global parts list)
I've come across a couple of statements that the Nissan snorkel is a re-branded TJM, but I haven't been able to check their validity. I need to look at some photos of a TJM and see if it looks like a possibility.
To be honest, if I could get one, I'd have a Volkswagen Amarok DoubleCab Trendline TDI 4Motion. The 120kW and 400Nm would suit me just fine, and I wouldn't complain about the ~8.1L/100km, either. I can't fathom the idea that VW refuses to introduce the Amarok into what is overwhelmingly the World's largest market for pickups. It seems like a no-brainer to me, but it just reinforces my opinion about the idiots running VW of America.
As it is, the Nissan/Suzuki looks to be the clear leader in the NA market, to me at least. The Toyota Tacoma sells better than anything else, but doesn't measure up to the standard set by the Hilux that everyone else gets. I suppose I could hold out a bit and see if General Motors is really going to introduce the new version of the Colorado in the U.S., as has been suggested. The truck they showed at the Bangkok Int'l Motor Show was quite a surprising improvement.
To be honest, if I could get one, I'd have a Volkswagen Amarok DoubleCab Trendline TDI 4Motion. The 120kW and 400Nm would suit me just fine, and I wouldn't complain about the ~8.1L/100km, either. I can't fathom the idea that VW refuses to introduce the Amarok into what is overwhelmingly the World's largest market for pickups. It seems like a no-brainer to me, but it just reinforces my opinion about the idiots running VW of America.
As it is, the Nissan/Suzuki looks to be the clear leader in the NA market, to me at least. The Toyota Tacoma sells better than anything else, but doesn't measure up to the standard set by the Hilux that everyone else gets. I suppose I could hold out a bit and see if General Motors is really going to introduce the new version of the Colorado in the U.S., as has been suggested. The truck they showed at the Bangkok Int'l Motor Show was quite a surprising improvement.
Was thinking that the best way of seeing if it's a rebrand would be to find the fitting template.
Can see it here for the Nissan one
http://www.navara.asia/members-rides/71-jons-d22.html
Can see it here for the Nissan one
http://www.navara.asia/members-rides/71-jons-d22.html
Wow, thanks! I'll see if I can positively ID it as a TJM, or not. I'm waiting on a call back on whether a dealer can get the Nissan version. Though if I go with the Suzuki Equator, I think the Nissan identification might look a bit odd. Oh well, it's not like there isn't an abundance of Suzuki decals out there that could be slapped on it. The major bodywork seems to be identical between the two versions, so I don't foresee a fitment problem.
It looks like the local Suzuki dealers may be more price competitive than the Nissan guys. It's no doubt due to the Suzuki dealers not keeping much inventory, so they don't have the carrying costs. I've seen enough stories about Nissan gasoline engine issues to make that 7yr/100K mile (161K km) Suzuki powertrain warranty look awfully appealing, too. Besides, I've always had a thing for having something different from the crowd...
It looks like the local Suzuki dealers may be more price competitive than the Nissan guys. It's no doubt due to the Suzuki dealers not keeping much inventory, so they don't have the carrying costs. I've seen enough stories about Nissan gasoline engine issues to make that 7yr/100K mile (161K km) Suzuki powertrain warranty look awfully appealing, too. Besides, I've always had a thing for having something different from the crowd...
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