5w20 oil for modern V6 with solid valve train??

[cdherman]

OK, thanks for reading this post with that cryptic subject line for starters.

I have bought a 2006 Kia Sedona with a 3.8l v6 DOHC engine. Its a new engine for Kia, Hyundi too. Going to be used in a bunch of vehicles, has VVT etc. Great torque and decent fuel economy for an engine of its size.

Here's the punch line. Solid lifters (Can you call them lifters when they are OVER the valves?) or perhaps tappets is more correct. Not hydraulic. So they are not self adjusting.

Kia likes 5w20 oil, and I am trying to decide on some oil that will keep those delicate DOHC cams and solid tappets running for a long time. (No, the 10 yr Kia/Hyundai warrenty does NOT cover adjustment of the valves, which is complicated in a DOHC V6).

Kia says inspect and adjuct if necessary at 60k miles. Could cost as much as grand. Argh....

So the oil that is best for my camshaft and tappets is what I am looking for. Money is not an issue, but don't bother to suggest Amsoil or Royal Purple or some such stuff. I'd like name brands. Has to be gasoline engine oil, SL or up rated.

Thanks.....

 

[Quest]

If it's meant for 5W20, go with 5W20.

These are bucket type similar to many Toyota engines which call for shims (we call them pucks) similar to that used in earlier Volvos, BMWs, etc. Yes, they can be fairly expensive to service but hey! You are greeted with long service life and trouble-free service life (so long as the valve doesn't collapse or exhibits premature wear).

Virtually an ILSAC GF4 rated motor oil @ 5W20 shall do this engine justice. If you want extended service drains, go with synthetics. I personally do not go into fancy botique motor oils.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Bucket type lifters on a DOHC setup really are a low spring pressure/large surface area mechanical interface. In other words little wear will occur as long as the parts are lubricated. 5w20 will allow for quicker flow of oil to the top end during cooler weather which isthe best way to protect your cams and buckets. ILSAC GF4 oil has to pass extremely severe valve wear test in the IIIG testing sequence that utilizes a flat tappet GM4.3 v-6 with extremely stiff valve springs.

 

[cdherman]

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(so long as the valve doesn't collapse or exhibits premature wear).

Virtually an ILSAC GF4 rated motor oil @ 5W20 shall do this engine justice. If you want extended service drains, go with synthetics. I personally do not go into fancy botique motor oils.

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You sound as if you have some experience here. I have searched all over the web looking for other engines that have the solid tappets or "pucks" as you call them.

Given that its a new engine, I am hoping that 5w20 is the best oil for it (as in, the engine was DESIGNED for 5w20, as opposed to religated to 5w20 for fuel economy reasons). I suspect that 5w20 will give better gas mileage than 5w30 (listed as an alternative oil, acc. to Kia).

Kia specs a 7500 mile OCI for normal service, so I think that a synth or semi-synth oil is a good idea. I will likely to push it only to 5k regardless, but I really want to baby the valve train, as I'd hate to spend $1000 or more in 5 years.

 

[hominid7]

Motorcraft 5w20 is available at your local walmart in nice 5 qt jugs.

My Mazda V6 has "solid" lifters as well and at 53,000 miles it shows no sign of even the slightest hint of varnish or valve problems. I've used mostly Motorcraft 5w30. However in July and August i have been using Havoline, Pennzoil, or Superflo 10w30 (whatever i find on sale) 10w30.

I believe your Kia calls for 5w20 at all temps but also allows for 10w30 above 0*F.

 

[Quest]

That's not the way how I see it.

If your engine requires valve adjustment every 5 yrs, you may might as well do it (yes, eat it!). Failure to do valve adjustments shall result in loss in fuel economy and power, noise and more wear as it goes along. The longer you delay this adjustments, the worse it's gonna become.

That's why all manually adjusted valvetrains shall be adjusted on a regular basis (that's what I luv about Hondas for all I ever need is a pack of Craftsman feeler gauge, 10mm wrench and a slot type screwdriver).

 

[cdherman]

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(that's what I luv about Hondas for all I ever need is a pack of Craftsman feeler gauge, 10mm wrench and a slot type screwdriver).

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Well the Kia uses these "pucks" that come in 42 sizes. And once you have determined that the valve train needs adjusting, you have to take apart the whole top end to replace those pucks.

A Kia service manager told me in practice, they just "listen to it, and if it sound OK, then we leave it be". Hmmmmm... Their 5 year service contract costs $700. to listen to the engine, change some belts and hoses.......

Also, aimed at the poster with "no varnish" -- did you really lift the covers to look?

Hey -- thanks to all of you for such a lively response to my post. I really appreciate it. This website really pleases me........

 

[Quest]

If the service manager quoted you with "listen" to the pucks kinda deal, you should consider checking out some other Kia dealers (*seriously*)

These shims, or Canucks prefer to call them "pucks", require proper shimming before the adjustments and then after replacing it with proper shim thickness, a final shimming is required to ensure that they are within specs. (at least that's the proper way to do it. Whether or not your dealership is going to follow this rigidly, this maybe a different subject).

As for varnish or not, I am passing this onto other posters to respond/debate. I for one, do not care about varnish coatings so long as I (a) observe conservative OCI with high grade oils; (b) my oil pressure and passageways are clean as a whistle; and (c) I'm not having any sludge issues to begin with (LOL! never so far for all my cars are 1st owners, with the exception of my wifey's camry Vee6).

 

[wgtoys]

"I have searched all over the web looking for other engines that have the solid tappets or "pucks" as you call them."

Many European engines have used this type of design. Volvos, Volkswagens and Fiats all come to mind. Typically replacement of the shims is done by depressing the valve with a special tool and slipping the old shim out, them replaceing it with a correct new shim. Are you sure that Kia's design requires massive disassembly? If so, they did a poor design job as many other companies solved the problem much more simply.

 

[Stooge]

High performance motorcycle engines have used this arrangement for years. You may want to search for these engines as well. Also note that "noise" has little to do with being "out of adjustment." Only a feeler gauge does that.

 

[buster]

If you delve into what the GF-4/SM spec entails, you'll find that any 5w-20 GF-4 oil will protect your engine very well. I personally like Havoline and Motorcraft.

 

[TimVipond]

My 2000 BMW K1200LT motorcycle also has the shim under bucket valve clearance adjustment. I used AMSOIL synthetic oil and they always stayed in spec for the 137,000 miles that I owned it before I sold it. I think most everyone else that used another oil had to reshim some of these 16 valve clearances every 24,000 miles or so.

 

[Quest]

Now, I couldnt help but to raise this question (TimVipond)-

Are you an Amsoil dealer? or are you an Amsoil enthusiast?

Why almost each and every one of your posts comes with AMSOIL in it?

 

[Pablo]

He's an Amsoil Direct Dealer. I keep him in check. But he better watch the links or he'll get canned.

As for the:

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Money is not an issue, but don't bother to suggest Amsoil.....or some such stuff. I'd like name brands

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You can't seek the best, seek knowledge and exclude brands because they aren't certains names you call "name brands". Makes no sense.

I too have years of experience with "bucket" followers and shims. Too the tune of 270,000 miles on one car. From just over 100K to 270K I never once had to add a "puck". I used Amsoil.

Now I use Amsoil 5W-20 in my 2006 Honda Ody 3.5.

Your concern is valid - but you still may need to at least check the clearances even with the best oil.

 

[hominid7]

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Also, aimed at the poster with "no varnish" -- did you really lift the covers to look?

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You can see a lot via the oil fill opening with a flashlight on my car.

Conservative OCI = No varnish/sludge

Now does no varnish/sludge=Valves not out of spec? I don't know... but it can't hurt

 

[TexasTDI]

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So the oil that is best for my camshaft and tappets is what I am looking for. Money is not an issue, but don't bother to suggest Amsoil or Royal Purple or some such stuff. I'd like name brands.

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Amsoil IS a name brand. It's the FIRST full synthetic auto oil in existence, been around since 1972. THREE YEARS before Mobil 1 came along.

If you really want us to suggest what oil is "best" for your application, don't be so closed minded on the oil choices out there.

 

[cdherman]

Any company that sells their products the way Amsoil does is suspicious in my books.

The fact that so many Amsoil posters here are actually small time amsoil "pushers" makes all the "word of mouth" ratings that amsoil gets highly suspect.

Morever, I cannot extend the OCI beyond 7.5k anyhow, due to warranty requirements. So an over the top premium product, even if it truely could deliver 10 or 15k OCI, or maybe never change the oil at all -- well that's fine, but moot for me.

So I will rephrase. I want an oil I can buy from a local place. I am not willing to pay more than about $5-6 per quart, unless the benefit is measured in something other than extended OCI.

Convince me that amsoil will keep me from needing to put $1000 worth of shims in my engine. Convince me that with some hard data from a reputable testing entity.

Otherwise, I made up my mind for Mobil I 5w20. Boring, I know. But no Kia dealer will ever question the quality of the oil.....

 

[Pablo]

I just want to keep the record factual.

Why would a Kia dealer question the quality of Amsoil?

Amsoil XLM is a full API 5W-20 SM oil. It is NOT a long drain oil - it is rated at 7500 miles or max recommended OCI.

Amsoil XLM is $6/qt. Under $5/qt if you become a preferred customer. This is less than Mobil 1.

Some places do sell Amsoil. Yes there are some Amsoil dealers here - but out of 16,000+ members they are tiny minority.

I have no scientific data that Amsoil will keep you from having to replace a shim, neither does Mobil.

Use whatever oil you want - but please keep it factual, just as you request.

 

[Drew99GT]

NO OIL can 100% make a shim over bucket valvetrain go the life of the engine with no adjustment. It's that simple. And if you do let it go and "think" the valves are fine, you could end up with way more that a thousand bucks in repair costs. Exhaust valves with this type of setup like to wear at the seats more than the stem/lifter/cam interfaces, and as a result, tighten. If they get too tight, they'll burn up. My Toyota took till 120,000 miles to require adjustment, but non the less, two exhaust valves were a hair tight, and if left that way, they likely would have burned to a crisp eventually.

 

[hominid7]

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NO OIL can 100% make a shim over bucket valvetrain go the life of the engine with no adjustment. It's that simple. And if you do let it go and "think" the valves are fine, you could end up with way more that a thousand bucks in repair costs. Exhaust valves with this type of setup like to wear at the seats more than the stem/lifter/cam interfaces, and as a result, tighten. If they get too tight, they'll burn up. My Toyota took till 120,000 miles to require adjustment, but non the less, two exhaust valves were a hair tight, and if left that way, they likely would have burned to a crisp eventually.

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Thats good to know.... I had planned on getting my valves looked at when i have the timing belt replaced at around 90,000 miles.