5W-40 All year round?

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Correct me if im wrong but isnt the GT-R's limp mode attributed to the DCT overheating during track sessions and not the engine?


Yes. I have heard GTR drivers coming off the track complain about limp-home mode in their transmissions. Also, I instructed a driver in a Mitsubishi Evo MR last year that got into limp-home mode when we were on track.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: wemay
Correct me if im wrong but isnt the GT-R's limp mode attributed to the DCT overheating during track sessions and not the engine?


Yes. I have heard GTR drivers coming off the track complain about limp-home mode in their transmissions. Also, I instructed a driver in a Mitsubishi Evo MR last year that got into limp-home mode when we were on track.


I know that issue well. The TC-SST transmission in the Evo10 MR is almost the same as the one I had in the 2010 Ralliart Sportback. Many track buddies would install Road Race Engineering (RRE) transmission oil coolers for the same reasons.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Swift101

My logic for using a heavier oil is to extend my OCI past 3.5K, preferably go to 5K (max allowed by Hyundai). I've seen many reports showing products like PP 5W-30 shear out of grade after 3200 miles. I know shearing might not hurt anything but I'm sure it's not ideal.

And your reasoning is entirely flawed.
Firstly, Hyundai doesn't even specify that synthetic oil be used, so electing to use a premium synthetic which is clearly more shear stable than the most shear prone API dino gives you an increased viscosity margin.
Secondly, it's not oil shear that you have to be all that concerned about to warrant running a heavier grade but rather very high oil temp's, and since you're not tracking your car extreme oil temp's aren't going to happen.
Finally, even a shear prone 5W-30 will still provide plenty of viscosity reserve. You're making the common newbie error that it won't, in effect second guessing the engineers, and therefore blindly assuming running a heavier grade will provide a lubrication advantage when the reality is the opposite.

The best approach one can take for a street driven car is to run the lightest oil specified for the engine and if a synthetic oil is not specified then use one for additional high temp' protection plus other benefits.
If you're serious about high performance driving then install oil gauges which will enable you fully monitor the operational viscosity of the oil you're running. In so doing, more often than not you'll find that a lighter oil grade than specified will often work optimally and very rarely a heavier oil grade even with track use.



I don't know if there is a reading comprehension issue here but I for one see the OP's logic as sound.

These are the facts that I get out of the OP's posts:

Hyundai recommends a 3.5K OCI for severe service driving and 5K OCI for normal service. Under the guidelines of "severe service" that is what the OP must follow based on where he lives, type of trips taken, etc, etc. So, under his service, with a 5W30 synthetic, at 3.5K OCI's, it has sheared down quite a bit, likely due to fuel dilution. He wants to push his OCI to 5K, even though the limit is 3.5K, and at that short OCI, he has found a considerable amount of oil shear. He wants to step up to the also RECOMMENDED grade of 5W40 synthetic such that he can extend his OCI's to 5K, despite severe service, and no doubt, lots of fuel dilution causing oil shear over that 5K.

What exactly is flawed about his reasoning? Nowhere did he ever mention high oil temps, or racing, etc. He is going up to a grade that is recommended by Hyundai in order to extend his OCI in an engine known for fuel dilution and extreme oil shear in normal, mundane driving.

 

[CATERHAM]

You're right he didn't mention any extreme usage
such as racing so we can as you say assume oil temp's will not be unusally high.
That makes oil shear and/or fuel dilution even less relavent since the single biggest factor that affects operational viscosity is oil temperature.
J
The OP has already upgraded his oil choice in choosing a premium synthetic 5W-30 over a 5W-30 dino. In addition to the other reasons I've mentioned in this thread there is no protection benefit in running a heavier grade.

 

[Maxima97]

You would lose some mpg probably unnoticeable. 5W40 dino cold pump may not as good as 5W30. So I would choose 5W30 if service handbook says so. If you tow a trailer or drive up slope. I would choose 5W40 or maybe 15W50. Don't rule out 0W40 M1 synthetic. It is a very good oil with very good cold viscousity.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
You're right he didn't mention any extreme usage
such as racing so we can as you say assume oil temp's will not be unusally high.
That makes oil shear and/or fuel dilution even less relavent since the single biggest factor that affects operational viscosity is oil temperature.
J
The OP has already upgraded his oil choice in choosing a premium synthetic 5W-30 over a 5W-30 dino. In addition to the other reasons I've mentioned in this thread there is no protection benefit in running a heavier grade.



You're missing one very important element... He already "upgraded" to a premium 5W30 synthetic oil and it has sheared quite a bit over a 3.5K OCI. This in and of itself is likely fine as you said, but if he wants to extend his OCI to 5K, then the premium 5W30 synthetic will shear even more, and could possibly end up compromising protection should he choose to go for a heated run near the end of his extended OCI. The syn 5W40 will provide all of the necessary margin over the entire extended OCI to prevent any such possibility of shearing a 5W30 beyond its service limit.

 

[Volvohead]

The OP has a couple threads running on this simultaneously. This is a turbo. I missed the shear down part.

If regular M1 5w-30 is shearing down that much after 3,500, then I'd be looking for a significantly more robust oil for sufficient reserve at 5k. I don't think I'd trust any M1 5w-30 variety to go 5k if that's the case, neither of which are A3, which is what this probably needs.

A bona fide 5w-40, or if it must be lighter, M1 0w-40. If he's really beating on it, perhaps RL in a 30 if the approvals fit. Turbos are a balancing act. Go too thick, and spool up starts to suffer.

Not many non-European manufacturers specify a 5w-40 in North America. If they are, that suggests that this is a more difficult engine than the average grocery hauler.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
You're right he didn't mention any extreme usage
such as racing so we can as you say assume oil temp's will not be unusally high.
That makes oil shear and/or fuel dilution even less relavent since the single biggest factor that affects operational viscosity is oil temperature.
J
The OP has already upgraded his oil choice in choosing a premium synthetic 5W-30 over a 5W-30 dino. In addition to the other reasons I've mentioned in this thread there is no protection benefit in running a heavier grade.



You're missing one very important element... He already "upgraded" to a premium 5W30 synthetic oil and it has sheared quite a bit over a 3.5K OCI. This in and of itself is likely fine as you said, but if he wants to extend his OCI to 5K, then the premium 5W30 synthetic will shear even more, and could possibly end up compromising protection should he choose to go for a heated run near the end of his extended OCI. The syn 5W40 will provide all of the necessary margin over the entire extended OCI to prevent any such possibility of shearing a 5W30 beyond its service limit.

No I didn't miss the fact that he was using PU 5W-30.
AFAIK the OP also hasn't referenced the UOA that he says has lost so much viscosity. As I've mentioned already in this thread, all OEMs allow a lot of viscosity loss before an oil is even condemned for further service. Porsche for example allows 18%. The point is, it's naive to think that whatever amount of viscosity loss he has experienced is unusual in any way and what Hyundai hasn't already factored into their grade recommendation.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Dont kill the messenger... that's what it says, ' for better vehicle performance'. Check the recommendation print screen posted earlier in this thread.

Oh, I know they print it; it's just mangled, like the call for an ILSAC rated 40 grade.

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yes, the Ford Mustang GT and the Nissan GT-R both succumb to "thermal castration" during use.

So does the G37 and 370Z. I haven't experienced it, but I drive like a grandmother much of the time.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

No I didn't miss the fact that he was using PU 5W-30.
AFAIK the OP also hasn't referenced the UOA that he says has lost so much viscosity. As I've mentioned already in this thread, all OEMs allow a lot of viscosity loss before an oil is even condemned for further service. Porsche for example allows 18%. The point is, it's naive to think that whatever amount of viscosity loss he has experienced is unusual in any way and what Hyundai hasn't already factored into their grade recommendation.



I agree that Hyundai has likely factored in a certain amount of allowable shear. No issue there. However, Hyundai has done their calculations based on a 3.5K OCI, irregardless of oil type. As we both know, synthetic oil still thins / shears in the presence of fuel just as well as conventional oil does. Fuel dilution is what it is. Switching from a 5W30 conventional to a 5W30 syn does not automatically allow the OP to extend past Hyundai's 3.5K recommendation. But a 5W40 syn just might, and will have to be validated by some UOA's.

 

[Swift101]

I'll definitely post my UOA results for both 5W-30/40.

Out of the 3 bellow which would be the best to use for a 5K OCI:

1. PU Euro 5W-40
2. Mag1 5W-40 Euro Formula
3. Premium 5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil

The reason I chose these is because there easy to get on Amazon.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

No I didn't miss the fact that he was using PU 5W-30.
AFAIK the OP also hasn't referenced the UOA that he says has lost so much viscosity. As I've mentioned already in this thread, all OEMs allow a lot of viscosity loss before an oil is even condemned for further service. Porsche for example allows 18%. The point is, it's naive to think that whatever amount of viscosity loss he has experienced is unusual in any way and what Hyundai hasn't already factored into their grade recommendation.



I agree that Hyundai has likely factored in a certain amount of allowable shear. No issue there. However, Hyundai has done their calculations based on a 3.5K OCI, irregardless of oil type. As we both know, synthetic oil still thins / shears in the presence of fuel just as well as conventional oil does. Fuel dilution is what it is. Switching from a 5W30 conventional to a 5W30 syn does not automatically allow the OP to extend past Hyundai's 3.5K recommendation. But a 5W40 syn just might, and will have to be validated by some UOA's.


3K severe
5K normal
Just so everyone knows the detail

 

[CATERHAM]

We're talking about the Sonata with the 2.0 TGDI engine here.
Both the 5W-30 and 5W-40 grades are specified for unlimited maximum ambient temp's as per the drivers handbook at the bottom page 3 of this thread.
So a minimum 3.5cP HTHSV 5W-40 is just an option and is NOT mandated. The safety management system built into the ECU will be based on a API 5W-30 dino.
Consequently running the lightest oil specified (5W-30) will meet all the lubrication requirement of the engine under all conditions.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
We're talking about the Sonata with the 2.0 TGDI engine here.
Both the 5W-30 and 5W-40 grades are specified for unlimited maximum ambient temp's as per the drivers handbook at the bottom page 3 of this thread.
So a minimum 3.5cP HTHSV 5W-40 is just an option and is NOT mandated. The safety management system built into the ECU will be based on a API 5W-30 dino.
Consequently running the lightest oil specified (5W-30) will meet all the lubrication requirement of the engine under all conditions.




We're talking about oil shear due to fuel dilution, not thinning out due to extreme high temperatures. The safety management system, which we are assuming that this engine has, will only measure temperature. It does not know what oil is in the car, or the condition of that oil.

So, in the hypothetical situation of a 5W30 dino oil over a 5k OCI in this engine, what happens if the fuel dilution is so bad that the oil thins past the point of "safety", in which a spirited drive might result in excess wear? The system will not catch this as extreme oil temperatures have not yet been encountered, but the film is in fact too thin due to excessive fuel dilution over an extended oci.

Therefore, the 5W40 syn is a smart choice for a 5k severe service OCI in this engine, especially given the TSB that Hyundai has put out regarding the use of 5W40 and its rather "strong" recommendation. Obviously the Hyundai engineers that "spec'd 5W30 dyno" now think that the 5W40 syn is a better way to go...

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: Swift101
I'll definitely post my UOA results for both 5W-30/40.

Out of the 3 bellow which would be the best to use for a 5K OCI:

1. PU Euro 5W-40
2. Mag1 5W-40 Euro Formula
3. Premium 5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil

The reason I chose these is because there easy to get on Amazon.





I have no experience with 2 or 3, so I can't comment on them. But the PU Euro is definitely a fine choice, and is well regarded.

 

[Swift101]

Originally Posted By: Swift101
I'll definitely post my UOA results for both 5W-30/40.

Out of the 3 bellow which would be the best to use for a 5K OCI:

1. PU Euro 5W-40
2. Mag1 5W-40 Euro Formula
3. Premium 5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil

The reason I chose these is because there easy to get on Amazon.



Number 3 was supposed to be Liqui Moly Premium 5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil, sorry about that.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
We're talking about the Sonata with the 2.0 TGDI engine here.
Both the 5W-30 and 5W-40 grades are specified for unlimited maximum ambient temp's as per the drivers handbook at the bottom page 3 of this thread.
So a minimum 3.5cP HTHSV 5W-40 is just an option and is NOT mandated. The safety management system built into the ECU will be based on a API 5W-30 dino.
Consequently running the lightest oil specified (5W-30) will meet all the lubrication requirement of the engine under all conditions.




We're talking about oil shear due to fuel dilution, not thinning out due to extreme high temperatures. The safety management system, which we are assuming that this engine has, will only measure temperature. It does not know what oil is in the car, or the condition of that oil.

So, in the hypothetical situation of a 5W30 dino oil over a 5k OCI in this engine, what happens if the fuel dilution is so bad that the oil thins past the point of "safety", in which a spirited drive might result in excess wear? The system will not catch this as extreme oil temperatures have not yet been encountered, but the film is in fact too thin due to excessive fuel dilution over an extended oci.

Therefore, the 5W40 syn is a smart choice for a 5k severe service OCI in this engine, especially given the TSB that Hyundai has put out regarding the use of 5W40 and its rather "strong" recommendation. Obviously the Hyundai engineers that "spec'd 5W30 dyno" now think that the 5W40 syn is a better way to go...

You really are over thinking this and your assumption that the fuel dilution could be more than what Hyundai expects is unfounded. As I understand the OP (still haven't seen his UOA) he was concerned with the oil being diluted down to that of a 20 grade (under 9.3cSt). Well that's not massive fuel dilution.
Additionally since we're not talking about high oil temp's, that's further justification to stick with the 5W-30 grade. The normally aspirated engine is spec'd for 5W-20 and it could just as likely have fuel dilution. So if high oil temp's aren't the issue then the 5W-30 has plenty of viscosity reserves and them some to deal with fuel dilution.

But you and the OP seem [censored] bent that a 40 grade oil is what you're more comfortable with so go for it.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

You really are over thinking this and your assumption that the fuel dilution could be more than what Hyundai expects is unfounded. As I understand the OP (still haven't seen his UOA) he was concerned with the oil being diluted down to that of a 20 grade (under 9.3cSt). Well that's not massive fuel dilution.
Additionally since we're not talking about high oil temp's, that's further justification to stick with the 5W-30 grade. The normally aspirated engine is spec'd for 5W-20 and it could just as likely have fuel dilution. So if high oil temp's aren't the issue then the 5W-30 has plenty of viscosity reserves and them some to deal with fuel dilution.

But you and the OP seem [censored] bent that a 40 grade oil is what you're more comfortable with so go for it.



There's hardly anything to over think here. I recommend that you go back through all of my posts and re-read them so that you can realize that I am NOT saying that the fuel dilution will be more than what Hyundai expects over a 3.5K OCI. But the OP wants to EXTEND his OCI. I don't know how else to say this to you, but the Hyundai engineers don't consider extended OCI's past their recommendations when making decisions about oil grade / type / OCI length.

Thus, the OP should move up a grade when extending his OCI to 5K so that after 5K, the 5W40 doesn't end up any thinner than the 5W30 did after 3.5K. Do you get it now? I don't know how many more ways I can re-state what I've already stated 20 times in this thread, and still you seem to gloss over the issue!

And there's no need to compare the naturally aspirated engine's oil requirements here, because as we all know, the tune of a DI turbo engine is going to be very different (read richer) than that of a non-turbo engine...

Lastly, speaking of Hyundai engineers, those same engineers put out a TSB stating that the engine in question should be using a 5W40 going forward. This went out to all of their Canadian dealers. Were they right only when they spec'd a 5W30 but are now wrong because they are updating their decision to a 5W40 as the preferred oil??? Double standards I see...

 

[Swift101]

I appreciate everyone's input on this, honestly I didn't want this thread to blow up.

For the record I'm not bent on using a 40 grade oil, If my next analysis of PU 5W-30 comes back good then I'll use that going forward. Trust me, I don't want to pay more for a 40 grade oil if I can get a 5 quart Jug of 5W-30 at Walmart for $25.

I just want to test 5W-40 and see how it compares in real life driving and on paper to 5W-30.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: Swift101
I appreciate everyone's input on this, honestly I didn't want this thread to blow up.

For the record I'm not bent on using a 40 grade oil, If my next analysis of PU 5W-30 comes back good then I'll use that going forward. Trust me, I don't want to pay more for a 40 grade oil if I can get a 5 quart Jug of 5W-30 at Walmart for $25.

I just want to test 5W-40 and see how it compares in real life driving and on paper to 5W-30.



lol... Sometimes when members choose to read posts "selectively" it comes down to this. My apologies, and I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback after.

If I were you, I'd likely be using a 5W40 in that application, especially given Hyundai's rather blunt TSB regarding it. In all honesty, if I owned that car and lived in the US, I'd be all over M1 0W40 for 25 bucks at Walmart. I know it's not specifically recommended because of the 0W, but I know it would work very well despite that.