2023 cbr1000rr
- Thread starter ford1286
- Start date
Breaking in still? You didn't say what oil you're running and if you're changing it out when taking the sample (or at what interval you're changing it).
FWIW, I've only got 6,006 miles on my '16 FJ-09 powered by a 3cyl, the CP3. I don't get to ride as much/often as I'd like and I consider that mileage to still be "during break-in", so I've changed the oil 3 times (once per year since owning it).
I would agree with their assessment: if there are no strange noises or other running issues, and all you have are some numbers on a sheet, then ride on and monitor trends.
FWIW, I've only got 6,006 miles on my '16 FJ-09 powered by a 3cyl, the CP3. I don't get to ride as much/often as I'd like and I consider that mileage to still be "during break-in", so I've changed the oil 3 times (once per year since owning it).
I would agree with their assessment: if there are no strange noises or other running issues, and all you have are some numbers on a sheet, then ride on and monitor trends.
Wear metals at 2-3 times universal averages is not usually anything to worry about during break-in, but it's a bit unusual that it's trending upwards.
I doubt the silicon is from dust, assuming you're staying off dirt roads, but maybe check the airbox for signs of dust anyway. Dust does affect pistons more than anything, and that's where the aluminum would be coming from.
The oil is sheared down to a solid 20-grade in only 1,500 miles. Some of that could be fuel dilution (Blackstone doesn't measure fuel accurately). Maybe Honda would consider this viscosity to be normal, but I'd consider switching to an oil that's thicker or more shear-stable. Oil that is too thin also tends to affect the pistons more than anything else, and could be causing excessive wear in hard riding.
You could try a 10W-30 that starts out a bit thicker and is known to be pretty shear stable, or you could try a 10W-40 or 15W-40.
I doubt the silicon is from dust, assuming you're staying off dirt roads, but maybe check the airbox for signs of dust anyway. Dust does affect pistons more than anything, and that's where the aluminum would be coming from.
The oil is sheared down to a solid 20-grade in only 1,500 miles. Some of that could be fuel dilution (Blackstone doesn't measure fuel accurately). Maybe Honda would consider this viscosity to be normal, but I'd consider switching to an oil that's thicker or more shear-stable. Oil that is too thin also tends to affect the pistons more than anything else, and could be causing excessive wear in hard riding.
You could try a 10W-30 that starts out a bit thicker and is known to be pretty shear stable, or you could try a 10W-40 or 15W-40.
Viscosity of 7.96 is thin for this engine ridden hard. 10w40 or 10w50 would be my choice. You need to check what is going on with that air filter, it is not normal for dirt to get past the filter.
Yeah, that's a lot more dirt than is normal for such a low-mileage bike. There are some large particles there, so it's not just fine dust getting through the filter element. My guess is it's getting through the seal between the upper and lower parts of the airbox. There doesn't appear to be a gasket, just a plastic lip. Airbox could be defective, or just maybe just wasn't fitted well or tightened correctly. Could also be a poorly fitted air filter.
If the bike is still on warranty, I'd ask dealer to check it for defects. Otherwise, I'd consider applying some grease along the sealing edge of the airbox, and definitely clean up the dirt that's in there.
I wouldn't worry too much about the long term effects of this dust on the engine, as long as the issue is addressed soon. The airbox on my SV650 was dusted much worse than this after riding 4,000 km with a mouse nest in the airbox, and it's still running strong 7 years later.
Edit: If you do use grease, use something silicon-free if your bike has an O2 sensor. K&N makes a sealing grease that would be safe to use.
If the bike is still on warranty, I'd ask dealer to check it for defects. Otherwise, I'd consider applying some grease along the sealing edge of the airbox, and definitely clean up the dirt that's in there.
I wouldn't worry too much about the long term effects of this dust on the engine, as long as the issue is addressed soon. The airbox on my SV650 was dusted much worse than this after riding 4,000 km with a mouse nest in the airbox, and it's still running strong 7 years later.
Edit: If you do use grease, use something silicon-free if your bike has an O2 sensor. K&N makes a sealing grease that would be safe to use.
I cleaned it and greased the rubber seal. Inspected filter and housing. Seems like they both seat well. No cracks in the housing or tears in the filter itself. No idea how that sand got in there. Hoping the grease will help keep it out. Doing another analysis in 400 miles.
The trend is going up for fe & al. I'd say go thick like a 15w-50 synthetic & see what the results are. I really don't think it's a cure but it may be a last ditch effort to slow it's roll. I'd say your bike is telling you to take it easier.
it is shared sump right?
Don't rule out the transmission (what's the shift forks made out of?)
I think i would run something like M1 Racing 4t or any number of similar dedicated bike oils.... FWIW
Don't rule out the transmission (what's the shift forks made out of?)
I think i would run something like M1 Racing 4t or any number of similar dedicated bike oils.... FWIW
I can help...
You can rule out Fe from your cylinders because true to its racing
intent your CBR sports an aluminum composite sleeve is used in place
of a conventional cast iron sleeve... The composite sleeve contributes
to lower engine weight and enhances cooling efficiency which enables
higher compression ratios...
Honda manual specifies SAE 10w30 Pro Honda GN4 or an equivalent 30
grade motorcycle oil... I gather you have up graded from GN4 non
synthetic recommendation to Honda full synthetic HP4S...
First of all Honda's engineers can be trusted... they would advise you stay
within the 30 grade but search for an improved motorcycle oil more to your liking...
More 30 grade support...
Quote Amsoil
60% of total engine wear occurs during cold start up
conditions before oil can circulate through the engine...
Quote Lake Speed Jr certified lubrication specialist at Driven Racing Oil.
“While a thicker viscosity grade is a workable solution, remember that
70 percent of engine wear occurs at start-up, so a higher viscosity
grade actually causes more wear, and we have used oil analysis that
shows this,” says Speed.
Quote 540Rat
"Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating
critical engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can.
Most engine wear takes place during cold start-up before oil flow can
reach all the components. So, quicker flowing thinner oil will help
reduce start-up engine wear, which is actually reducing wear overall."
Quote EAA ( Experimental Aircraft Association)
"When we first crank the engine, there's no oil pressure and the
crankshaft cranking speed is pathetically slow. The conditions for
hydrodynamic lubrication simply do not exist. Consequently, there is
metal-to-metal contact between the journal and the bearing, and wear
is inevitable."
Quote SAE
Wear of engine components is affected by lubricant quality and flow
and by the metallurgy of the rubbing parts. Recent studies have shown
that after starting an engine at sub-zero temperatures, more than 6
min elapsed before oil reached all of the rocker arm assemblies of a
V-8 engine. Since this could have an adverse effect on rocker arm and
ball wear, the effects of intermittent and zero oil flow on rocker arm
and ball wear were investigated.
Info you... Used Oil sample shows that a Honda 30 grade in a CBR1000RR
will meet and exceed your mileage expectations... your engine just
happens to show different numbers at this time..
You can rule out Fe from your cylinders because true to its racing
intent your CBR sports an aluminum composite sleeve is used in place
of a conventional cast iron sleeve... The composite sleeve contributes
to lower engine weight and enhances cooling efficiency which enables
higher compression ratios...
Honda manual specifies SAE 10w30 Pro Honda GN4 or an equivalent 30
grade motorcycle oil... I gather you have up graded from GN4 non
synthetic recommendation to Honda full synthetic HP4S...
First of all Honda's engineers can be trusted... they would advise you stay
within the 30 grade but search for an improved motorcycle oil more to your liking...
More 30 grade support...
Quote Amsoil
60% of total engine wear occurs during cold start up
conditions before oil can circulate through the engine...
Quote Lake Speed Jr certified lubrication specialist at Driven Racing Oil.
“While a thicker viscosity grade is a workable solution, remember that
70 percent of engine wear occurs at start-up, so a higher viscosity
grade actually causes more wear, and we have used oil analysis that
shows this,” says Speed.
Quote 540Rat
"Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating
critical engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can.
Most engine wear takes place during cold start-up before oil flow can
reach all the components. So, quicker flowing thinner oil will help
reduce start-up engine wear, which is actually reducing wear overall."
Quote EAA ( Experimental Aircraft Association)
"When we first crank the engine, there's no oil pressure and the
crankshaft cranking speed is pathetically slow. The conditions for
hydrodynamic lubrication simply do not exist. Consequently, there is
metal-to-metal contact between the journal and the bearing, and wear
is inevitable."
Quote SAE
Wear of engine components is affected by lubricant quality and flow
and by the metallurgy of the rubbing parts. Recent studies have shown
that after starting an engine at sub-zero temperatures, more than 6
min elapsed before oil reached all of the rocker arm assemblies of a
V-8 engine. Since this could have an adverse effect on rocker arm and
ball wear, the effects of intermittent and zero oil flow on rocker arm
and ball wear were investigated.
Info you... Used Oil sample shows that a Honda 30 grade in a CBR1000RR
will meet and exceed your mileage expectations... your engine just
happens to show different numbers at this time..
Last edited:
Your Honda 10W30 does not quite meet specification. The viscosity, even with the short mileage is a bit low for an API 30 weight motor oil. Blackstone says the viscosity “ seems normal for your bike”. I’m not so sure.
Here are a couple pics for the other readers. The redline starts at 13,000 rpm. You are running a sheared down oil in a 13,000 rpm engine. I would firstly use a reputable 10w30 motorcycle engine oil and see what viscosity it’s at during your next sample test. By the way, it appears Honda has been asking for a 30 weight oil since 2006-2007.
Here are a couple pics for the other readers. The redline starts at 13,000 rpm. You are running a sheared down oil in a 13,000 rpm engine. I would firstly use a reputable 10w30 motorcycle engine oil and see what viscosity it’s at during your next sample test. By the way, it appears Honda has been asking for a 30 weight oil since 2006-2007.
Last edited:
Yes I am running HP4S 10w30. Good read on those quotes. Thank you
Also another thing is. I live in Florida where it's always hot.
A lot longer than that, I bought a brand new 1993 Fireblade 900RR in Germany, the 10w30 did not work in that engine in that country. The dealers were literally littered with blown up Fireblade engines, Honda quickly issued a TSB saying to use 10w40 or higher.
The Honda engineers really screwed the pooch on that one, my engine let go after 300km of hard autobahn use after breaking it in for 1000km.
You need better oil and a better air filter.
The Mobil 4T is easy to find, no reason you couldn't run M1 15-50 either.
Getting a better air filter setup would be my top priority though.
The Mobil 4T is easy to find, no reason you couldn't run M1 15-50 either.
Getting a better air filter setup would be my top priority though.
I don't believe these claims that most wear occurs during cold start up before oil pressure builds. Multiple studies show that most wear occurs during the first ~5 minutes after the engine is started, not in the first couple of seconds while oil pressure is still building. After those first couple of seconds, there will be little difference in wear between oil grades until the oil gets hot.
Also, that statistic may be a good rule of thumb for a typical commuter car with an average trip length of under an hour, but it doesn't apply to vehicles that take long trips or are driven really hard. A race car will experience most of its engine wear at high load and rpm with a warm engine. This bike is apparently ridden hard 50% of the time, so these conditions are probably going to dominate the overall wear, especially if that wear is accelerated by thin, hot oil.
I'm running the factory filter. Shouldn't that be good enough? Or should I go aftermarket?
Similar threads
