Another Mobil 1 UOA with high Iron counts. Nothing to see here folks, move along...
2013 Chevy Equinox, 2.4L, 7,611mi, Mobil-1 0w40
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Another Mobil 1 UOA with high Iron counts. Nothing to see here folks, move along...
Which anyone who actually knows what they're talking about will tell you is absolutely meaningless.
How many times must it need to be posted. A used oil analysis is NOT in any way shape or form an accurate indicator of wear.
So there could be high ppm iron in the oil and it really doesn't mean anything.
Another Mobil 1 UOA with high Iron counts. Nothing to see here folks, move along...
Which anyone who actually knows what they're talking about will tell you is absolutely meaningless.
How many times must it need to be posted. A used oil analysis is NOT in any way shape or form an accurate indicator of wear.
So there could be high ppm iron in the oil and it really doesn't mean anything.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Another Mobil 1 UOA with high Iron counts. Nothing to see here folks, move along...
Which anyone who actually knows what they're talking about will tell you is absolutely meaningless.
How many times must it need to be posted. A used oil analysis is NOT in any way shape or form an accurate indicator of wear.
So there could be high ppm iron in the oil and it really doesn't mean anything.
Uh, it is wear. A basic UOA will be limited, and wear tolerances will vary, but it's wear.
http://www.anac-diagnosis.com/lub/lubana...&LG=EN&
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Another Mobil 1 UOA with high Iron counts. Nothing to see here folks, move along...
Which anyone who actually knows what they're talking about will tell you is absolutely meaningless.
How many times must it need to be posted. A used oil analysis is NOT in any way shape or form an accurate indicator of wear.
So there could be high ppm iron in the oil and it really doesn't mean anything.
Uh, it is wear. A basic UOA will be limited, and wear tolerances will vary, but it's wear.
http://www.anac-diagnosis.com/lub/lubana...&LG=EN&
Are they just doing this for the fun of it?
Quote:
“The lubricant specialist uses an X-ray technique to check for any metallic wear particles that is held in suspension in the oil after each session.
“This is a very important test as we can see how the engine is performing until the end of the weekend. This will help expand the life of the engine and gearbox,” he explained.
“I know that other teams have analytical abilities on fuels but we are the only one to have a full working mobile laboratory. And we are proud to have this kind of close working relationship with Ferrari,” he said. – By AZMAH ABIDIN
Quote:
“The lubricant specialist uses an X-ray technique to check for any metallic wear particles that is held in suspension in the oil after each session.
“This is a very important test as we can see how the engine is performing until the end of the weekend. This will help expand the life of the engine and gearbox,” he explained.
“I know that other teams have analytical abilities on fuels but we are the only one to have a full working mobile laboratory. And we are proud to have this kind of close working relationship with Ferrari,” he said. – By AZMAH ABIDIN
I asked this in another thread and never got an answer. How many ppm of iron relates to how many nanometres of wear?
Additionally, don't bring F1 into it. For one, they're looking at other things, including fuel issues. They can change fuel mapping on a whim, and engines are tuned for race conditions as best as they can, not a fixed or semi-variable tune for the life of a vehicle (as in for the rest of us). And they don't bounce from lubricant brand to lubricant brand from race to race.
Also, I'm sure they wouldn't be averse to opening an engine. However, check the quote. They're looking at data over the course of the weekend. The rules of parc ferme do not allow them to tear engines down willy nilly, so other tools are used.
Additionally, don't bring F1 into it. For one, they're looking at other things, including fuel issues. They can change fuel mapping on a whim, and engines are tuned for race conditions as best as they can, not a fixed or semi-variable tune for the life of a vehicle (as in for the rest of us). And they don't bounce from lubricant brand to lubricant brand from race to race.
Also, I'm sure they wouldn't be averse to opening an engine. However, check the quote. They're looking at data over the course of the weekend. The rules of parc ferme do not allow them to tear engines down willy nilly, so other tools are used.
Hi,
Garak - You said this;
"I asked this in another thread and never got an answer. How many ppm of iron relates to how many nanometres of wear?"
In my case my DD Series 60 engines used 150ppm Fe as one OCI parameter
I had one engine torn down and measured up/inspected at around IIRC 1.2m kms (745k miles) (four years) - this engine's average Fe level at its average OC point (99711 kms) was 134ppm
Oil consumption for this engine was about the same as the average for all others at 6kkms per litre
No measurable wear was detected and the engine was reassembled using the original liners and pistons (ring packs were replaced as a cautionary measure)
We agonise over very small numbers here on BITOG
Garak - You said this;
"I asked this in another thread and never got an answer. How many ppm of iron relates to how many nanometres of wear?"
In my case my DD Series 60 engines used 150ppm Fe as one OCI parameter
I had one engine torn down and measured up/inspected at around IIRC 1.2m kms (745k miles) (four years) - this engine's average Fe level at its average OC point (99711 kms) was 134ppm
Oil consumption for this engine was about the same as the average for all others at 6kkms per litre
No measurable wear was detected and the engine was reassembled using the original liners and pistons (ring packs were replaced as a cautionary measure)
We agonise over very small numbers here on BITOG
Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
We agonise over very small numbers here on BITOG
Very true. Even 36ppm is not high.
My point was the 36ppm doesn't just magically appear. It came from some form of wear. All engines wear.
Agree on the first part.
Not all Fe in solution found in a UOA, and it is in solution, comes from physical wear. Just oil circulating and sitting on and in steel parts, will pick up very small amounts of surface iron.
Quote:
We agonise over very small numbers here on BITOG
Very true. Even 36ppm is not high.
My point was the 36ppm doesn't just magically appear. It came from some form of wear. All engines wear.
Agree on the first part.
Not all Fe in solution found in a UOA, and it is in solution, comes from physical wear. Just oil circulating and sitting on and in steel parts, will pick up very small amounts of surface iron.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
In my case my DD Series 60 engines used 150ppm Fe as one OCI parameter
Thanks for chiming in, Doug. As you gathered, I was being a bit tongue in cheek. Lately, we've been having a rash of situations where some posters want to equate certain readings with wear, all the while jumping from brand to brand, chemistry to chemistry, and viscosity to viscosity. Of course you know, and have shown us through your experience, that this is folly, and I'm trying to see how far out on a limb some will go with trying to quantify a given ppm with a measured quantity of wear.
With any luck, someone will saw off the branch upon which they are perched.
In my case my DD Series 60 engines used 150ppm Fe as one OCI parameter
Thanks for chiming in, Doug. As you gathered, I was being a bit tongue in cheek. Lately, we've been having a rash of situations where some posters want to equate certain readings with wear, all the while jumping from brand to brand, chemistry to chemistry, and viscosity to viscosity. Of course you know, and have shown us through your experience, that this is folly, and I'm trying to see how far out on a limb some will go with trying to quantify a given ppm with a measured quantity of wear.
With any luck, someone will saw off the branch upon which they are perched.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Garak - You said this;
"I asked this in another thread and never got an answer. How many ppm of iron relates to how many nanometres of wear?"
In my case my DD Series 60 engines used 150ppm Fe as one OCI parameter
I had one engine torn down and measured up/inspected at around IIRC 1.2m kms (745k miles) (four years) - this engine's average Fe level at its average OC point (99711 kms) was 134ppm
Oil consumption for this engine was about the same as the average for all others at 6kkms per litre
No measurable wear was detected and the engine was reassembled using the original liners and pistons (ring packs were replaced as a cautionary measure)
We agonise over very small numbers here on BITOG
Thank you for posting sir.
It was by going over your old posts,and Overkill's that I was corrected,and learned that using a used oil analysis to attempt and gauge wear was a fools errand.
So when I try to explain that in various threads I'm pounced on. I assumed we lesser informed members were here for information,yet when information is posted and it doesn't fit some peoples pre-conceived notions learning ends and out come the snide remarks.
I do thank you for being here. I've learned so much going over your old stuff. You,and a few others here are such an asset to this forum.
Thanks.
Hi,
Garak - You said this;
"I asked this in another thread and never got an answer. How many ppm of iron relates to how many nanometres of wear?"
In my case my DD Series 60 engines used 150ppm Fe as one OCI parameter
I had one engine torn down and measured up/inspected at around IIRC 1.2m kms (745k miles) (four years) - this engine's average Fe level at its average OC point (99711 kms) was 134ppm
Oil consumption for this engine was about the same as the average for all others at 6kkms per litre
No measurable wear was detected and the engine was reassembled using the original liners and pistons (ring packs were replaced as a cautionary measure)
We agonise over very small numbers here on BITOG
Thank you for posting sir.
It was by going over your old posts,and Overkill's that I was corrected,and learned that using a used oil analysis to attempt and gauge wear was a fools errand.
So when I try to explain that in various threads I'm pounced on. I assumed we lesser informed members were here for information,yet when information is posted and it doesn't fit some peoples pre-conceived notions learning ends and out come the snide remarks.
I do thank you for being here. I've learned so much going over your old stuff. You,and a few others here are such an asset to this forum.
Thanks.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
We agonise over very small numbers here on BITOG
Very true. Even 36ppm is not high.
My point was the 36ppm doesn't just magically appear. It came from some form of wear. All engines wear.
Agree on the first part.
Not all Fe in solution found in a UOA, and it is in solution, comes from physical wear. Just oil circulating and sitting on and in steel parts, will pick up very small amounts of surface iron.
True. Good point.
Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
We agonise over very small numbers here on BITOG
Very true. Even 36ppm is not high.
My point was the 36ppm doesn't just magically appear. It came from some form of wear. All engines wear.
Agree on the first part.
Not all Fe in solution found in a UOA, and it is in solution, comes from physical wear. Just oil circulating and sitting on and in steel parts, will pick up very small amounts of surface iron.
True. Good point.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Another Mobil 1 UOA with high Iron counts. Nothing to see here folks, move along...
Which anyone who actually knows what they're talking about will tell you is absolutely meaningless.
How many times must it need to be posted. A used oil analysis is NOT in any way shape or form an accurate indicator of wear.
So there could be high ppm iron in the oil and it really doesn't mean anything.
Uh, it is wear. A basic UOA will be limited, and wear tolerances will vary, but it's wear.
http://www.anac-diagnosis.com/lub/lubana...&LG=EN&
But this isn't formula 1 buster
Nor do I believe the process is all that similar. You aren't getting Formula 1 grade oil analysis results for $20.00. And I'm also quite sure they use UOA's coupled with tear-downs like they do in many other racing venues. There is a clearly defined process with the Formula 1 system (and that's what it is, a system that includes oil analysis as part of it) that is the way it is due to rules and regulations as well as what has shown to work. As somebody else said, it allows them to modify fuel trims and other operating parameters as well and the lube is a constant; they always know what is in the engine.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Another Mobil 1 UOA with high Iron counts. Nothing to see here folks, move along...
Which anyone who actually knows what they're talking about will tell you is absolutely meaningless.
How many times must it need to be posted. A used oil analysis is NOT in any way shape or form an accurate indicator of wear.
So there could be high ppm iron in the oil and it really doesn't mean anything.
Uh, it is wear. A basic UOA will be limited, and wear tolerances will vary, but it's wear.
http://www.anac-diagnosis.com/lub/lubana...&LG=EN&
But this isn't formula 1 buster
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
It appears to me using a true Dexos oil in this engine will lead to an early demise without crazy short OCI's.
As already suggested, I can't help but wonder if something like T6, being an HDEO with its differing add pack than a PCMO would do better in this vehicle.
The same engine is in my Regal, the 2.4L normally aspirated 185-hp mill. Looks like it'll be 4000 mile OCIs for me, synth oil or not. . . .
It appears to me using a true Dexos oil in this engine will lead to an early demise without crazy short OCI's.
As already suggested, I can't help but wonder if something like T6, being an HDEO with its differing add pack than a PCMO would do better in this vehicle.
The same engine is in my Regal, the 2.4L normally aspirated 185-hp mill. Looks like it'll be 4000 mile OCIs for me, synth oil or not. . . .
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