2011 Honda Pilot - Factory Fill - 6242mi - 10% OLM

[pcfxer]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
That isn't break in oil, it is good oil. Break in oil causes, on purpose, higher friction to wear parts faster, it's not meant to run a whole oci.

People can talk all they want to the contrary, but it is better to change the oil early on a new engine. Better isn't the same word as necessary. In this case one could use a high moly replacement oil if the moly is assumed to be the reason Honda chooses it. I think they just bought a high quality oil for FF and it happens to have high moly, like some other oils do.

Please someone explain exactly how cylinder wall roughness, as a major source of early wear particles, is better machined now than in 1950, 1985, or 1920.


Lasers, computers, low-friction coatings and improved boring processes.

 

[goodtimes]

The roughness in a new cylinder made in 1950 is for the same purpose as 2011. That's what I am trying to say here. I think the limits of machining metal accurately, were probably achieved in the 19th century.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: pcfxer
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
That isn't break in oil, it is good oil. Break in oil causes, on purpose, higher friction to wear parts faster, it's not meant to run a whole oci.

People can talk all they want to the contrary, but it is better to change the oil early on a new engine. Better isn't the same word as necessary. In this case one could use a high moly replacement oil if the moly is assumed to be the reason Honda chooses it. I think they just bought a high quality oil for FF and it happens to have high moly, like some other oils do.

Please someone explain exactly how cylinder wall roughness, as a major source of early wear particles, is better machined now than in 1950, 1985, or 1920.


Lasers, computers, low-friction coatings and improved boring processes.


Although i agree that today's machining process is much improved compared to the 1980s but regardless, during the initial 1,000 miles a large amount of metal shavings find their way into the oil.

I personally think the oil filter quickly gets clogged and goes into bypass mode, (worst case scenario)

I dumped the factory fill on both my new 07 Honda's after 1,000 miles and refilled with Valvoline high mileage which was in use for 3,000 miles followed by a semi synthetic for 3k and finally Mobil 1 EP for 6-7k following the OLM.

I'm now slowly extending my intervals as per the UOA i've done. Currently doing 10k OCIs with the Civic EX.



I think the only reason manufacturers don't Recommend that you change the FF early is because nobody wants to run back to the dealer within a few months of purchasing a brand new car for an oil change.

Besides, i'm sure the engine will be "just fine" either way.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
The roughness in a new cylinder made in 1950 is for the same purpose as 2011. That's what I am trying to say here. I think the limits of machining metal accurately, were probably achieved in the 19th century.


I second that. Auto makers have perfected the process over the years, with robots making sure each engine is made identical and using coatings and different metals for reduced friction.

Its not like the cylinder walls in the 1950 had sharp jagged edges like a broken glass bottle.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Artem - You said this:

"I think the only reason manufacturers don't Recommend that you change the FF early is because nobody wants to run back to the dealer within a few months of purchasing a brand new car for an oil change."

You may think that - some Manufacturer's Engineers disagree with you!

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
The roughness in a new cylinder made in 1950 is for the same purpose as 2011. That's what I am trying to say here. I think the limits of machining metal accurately, were probably achieved in the 19th century.


I second that. Auto makers have perfected the process over the years, with robots making sure each engine is made identical and using coatings and different metals for reduced friction.

Its not like the cylinder walls in the 1950 had sharp jagged edges like a broken glass bottle.

There is a lot of new technology in cylinder finishes and rings. Just Google "Plateau Honing" for a taste.

 

[momomeister]

FWIW, I have a 2006 Odyssey. Changed the FF at roughly 5K miles and have been pretty much following the MID, with the exception of the last oil change, where I went a few hundred miles beyond MID. Here's the link to my latest UOA:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2162714

Mainly 9 mile commute one way (no highway) and the occasional longer trip (30 miles, with the 250 mile trip once every 4-6 months). From what Blackstone says, it's doing nicely.

Previous Honda was a 1996 Honda Accord EX, OCI of 7500/6 months miles, which ever came first. Never did a UOA but never used a drop of oil and valve train was clean when it was sold in 2008 with 117,000+ miles.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
Shows less moly than Valvoline Maxlife. Try Toyota OEM or Redline if you want more than that.
Considering this was break-in, it looks pretty good.
Thanks for posting!

Or simply stick with the Honda Brand 0W-20 which contains over 1,000 ppm of moly.

American Honda's principal chemist, Jeff Jetter told me a couple of years ago that the FF in many Honda's is their Honda Brand 0W-10 and that's what this oil looks like.

 

[goodtimes]

I am in quote, so my 2 c. Plateau honing = using a smaller grit, but not too much, so valleys from before stay. This isn't too new of an idea IMO, but has nice new term for it. The old guys never would think of that, just ground it to rougher'n a cob spec and done.

 

[Indydriver]

I just slogged through this whole thread, including all of the links as I just helped my daughter buy her first car, a 2011 Accord V6. I've been DIYing oil changes for 40 years in all kinds of motorcycles and cars and learned from some very smart and experienced people how to break-in engines (fast and early to seat the rings), followed by a first OCI no later than 1,000 miles. Then OCI's of 3,000 with recommended vis dino oil. I can honestly say that I've never experienced an engine failure or major repair of any kind. You can see my current vehicles and their mileages below. This experience has convinced me that interval is much, much more important that the relatively minute differences between brands of oil. Get the junk out NOW and replace it with something, anything, clean. So, regardless what anyone thinks, what I've been doing has worked well for the health and longevity of my engines. Now, we've got this brand new Honda V6. One cannot NOT be concerned about extended OCIs after reading this, especially from the fabled Honda engineers. When we picked up her car, the salesman at the dealership raved about how they "turn people away who want to waste their money with early oil changes". I just take it all in and keep doing what works for me. I did purchase some "Honda Genuine Full Synthetic" 0W-20 and some OE filters from a dealer online just to document proper maintenance for warranty. This oil looks like the real deal...it's SN, GF-5, part no. -9037, apparently the new CP supplied oil. Anyway, after reading all this, I don't think I'll let that FF go longer than 3K. I've never done a UOA on any of these hundreds of OC's I've done over the years but it sounds like there may be some interest in another Honda V6 FF.

 

[Artem]

^not if you're going to dump it @ 1,000 miles. Its pointless really.

 

[moto94536]

I would run to atleast 5000 miles with the factory fill. If you have extra cash, and have ability to change oil DIY, just do it early...

I personally run my car to 20% on OLM, did my first oil change at 8462 mile..

During 8462 miles, the car consumpt 3/4 qt. I refilled 1 qt. after that, it didn't lost any oil... which was good break in.

 

[steve20]

When I had my 02 Camry-I was at the Toyota dealer for parts and watched the service writer show one young lady to the door when she brought her car in for the first 3K oil change. He said come back at 6K


Steve