2011 Honda Pilot - Factory Fill - 6242mi - 10% OLM

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: kcrw02
Next time I think I will change oil at 30% and run it until 30% and sample that oil. Since I'm skipping a test on the second one I test the fresh stuff I filled with.


I'm sure it will trend down and look better over the next few UOAs. In fact, once this engine is finished breaking in, which isn't much longer, I suspect you'll find the oil won't get hammered as hard.

That being said, do your UOAs to see the oils condition and decide for yourself what the OCI should be according to your application/service. I suspect the Honda OLM will be fine as long as you don't continue to get fuel dilution. If you do, adjust your OCI accordingly.
 
Guys, I'm having a really hard time accepting this report is accurate. As others have said, this is a "bad" report in relation to many others, and I've never seen a Honda engine report, V-6 or I-4, that looked this bad, ever.

One thing that jumps out at me is the moly number. Every FF Honda report I've seen over the course of several years has a moly number of 600ppm or more. And the iron number is huge for a Honda.

Being charitable, it's my hunch the lab (which lab, btw?) mixed up the sample.
 
This test was from Blackstone. Is it possible they mixed up samples? If so there is probably no fix?

I got the pilot with 94 miles and my test drive put 20 of those miles on it.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Looks good. Definitely nothing wrong with this report.


??

Flush Flush Flush...3k max OCI's for all of my new cars. I like to get that garbage out of the engine. What gets me is the extremely low viscosity of that FF. 1.8% Fuel is not great but not that bad either. I think you can find a much better oil and I hope you do the maintenance.
 
Last edited:
I doubt that Blackstone mixed up samples.

This is what a typical overly used, factory fill oil, with your driving style, looks like; BAD!

What I don't understand is why ANYONE would spend between $20k and $50k on a new vehicle and skimp on a couple $30 oil changes.

Its engine break in. Its not rocket science. Please people, make an effort to give it an early rinse oil change, that is if you want to keep the vehicle longer than the lease or loan period.

You have your owners manual. Follow it if your vehicle is disposable. Read it and then throw it in the trash if you want to keep the vehicle longer.
 
Originally Posted By: unDummy
I doubt that Blackstone mixed up samples.

This is what a typical overly used, factory fill oil, with your driving style, looks like; BAD!

What I don't understand is why ANYONE would spend between $20k and $50k on a new vehicle and skimp on a couple $30 oil changes.

Its engine break in. Its not rocket science. Please people, make an effort to give it an early rinse oil change, that is if you want to keep the vehicle longer than the lease or loan period.

You have your owners manual. Follow it if your vehicle is disposable. Read it and then throw it in the trash if you want to keep the vehicle longer.


This is why I never leave the FF in for more than 1000 miles, in fact in my Jeep the oil was out in about 500 miles!
 
Originally Posted By: unDummy
I doubt that Blackstone mixed up samples.

This is what a typical overly used, factory fill oil, with your driving style, looks like; BAD!

What I don't understand is why ANYONE would spend between $20k and $50k on a new vehicle and skimp on a couple $30 oil changes.

Its engine break in. Its not rocket science. Please people, make an effort to give it an early rinse oil change, that is if you want to keep the vehicle longer than the lease or loan period.

You have your owners manual. Follow it if your vehicle is disposable. Read it and then throw it in the trash if you want to keep the vehicle longer.


Pretty much Amen to that brutha!

Disagree with the blanket statement on the manual. None of us has read every manual or evaluated it against every driving situation. The OEMs, for the most part, have the most data from which to make a recommendation. They may be cutting the line pretty closely sometimes, but I'd bet that the recommendations are adequate or superior the majority of the time. Adequate isn't good enough for all of us, and there are inadequate examples to be found, but blanket statements are inaccurate and a disservice to people who read these posts.

As far as this UOA goes, the way I see it, the metals were mostly break in and the oil was trashed due to the fuel load and the driving cycle. I don't think the high metals were anything abnormal for the conditions but an indicator of why early oil changes are still necessary... break in oil notwithstanding. With a better driving cycle, it's likely the oil would have held up better but I think the metals would have largely been the same. Anyway, no harm was done. I'm sure the engine will have a long and happy life with an owner that obviously cares.

What I take away from this is wondering about Honda's OLM algorithms. From what I have seen, the GM system would have called for a change sooner based on the driving cycle. I hesitate making a gavel pound over that considering
this was a FF, break-in oil and perhaps not what the OLM was calibrated against. The followup test will tell the tale. If I had to guess, this SUV will end up with a 4-5K OCI at most.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I agree with those who change their oil early in new vehicles. Granted Honda uses oil with a high moly content for break in, the moly content of that oil isn't overly impressive. If I ever bought a new Honda I'd dump the FF oil early [around 1000 miles] and refill with a high quality dino like PYB. I'd add Lubro Moly or Bio Tech Engine Protectant to boost the moly up. Then probably switch over to a good synthetic oil at around 4000-5000 miles. JMO



DITTO... BUT I would do 2K on the FF. Then go to a couple of 3K OCI's with PYB or Motorcraft. 5K syn changes after.
 
We are talking about 203 PPM at the highest wear for copper. This not a bad report for over a 6K OCI on a FF. I agree with Jim Allen and I would not do another UOA until after 20K. Follow the OLM for your next two changes. 5-10% of oil life left is a good guide-line your Honda will rust out in Iowa before your motor throws a bearing.
 
I'm glad I found this thread! I just got a 2011 Ridgeline and was debating on the FF OCI. After that UOA! No debate.
I am a PP user and will probably do the suggested 2k change of the Factory Fill and use PYB for two-3k changes before I use PP for my longer intervals. I plan on passing this Honda down to my 3 year old. lol!
It just doesn't make sense to have hard particles being "squeezed" between softer metals for a prolonged time. It reminds me of why I used to change my Yamaha four-stroke oil often due to the aluminum contamination from the clutch plates. You surely didn't want that aluminum slurry passing through the rest of the motor for too long.
I thought the 6K FF OCI seemed a little too "green". Matt
 
Nmn567: Sir, IMHO, you are giving too much weight to this single UOA. If it's accurate, it's an anomaly. I recommend you sign on to Honda's official web page, open the "Owner's Link" and read Honda's specific admonishment not to change the FF before the scheduled maintanence interval. The Owner's Link guidance further explains the same instruction you will find in your owner's manual.
 
I have a couple of thoughts about this now that I have thought about it for awhile. Honda’s FF is supposed to be high in moly. This sample clearly was not as high as a few other Honda FF OUA’s.

1. Should I get some moly additive and run it this oil cycle? or is it too late for the benefits of break in moly?
2. Why was the moly so low? The thing that keeps coming to mind is that maybe it came to the dealer very low on oil and the added their own bulk oil to fill/top it off. Maybe this would explain the lower viscosity too?
 
Originally Posted By: Hounds
Nmn567: Sir, IMHO, you are giving too much weight to this single UOA. If it's accurate, it's an anomaly. I recommend you sign on to Honda's official web page, open the "Owner's Link" and read Honda's specific admonishment not to change the FF before the scheduled maintanence interval. The Owner's Link guidance further explains the same instruction you will find in your owner's manual.



You could be right on this but there are other, a few, FF UOAs around that also indicate that break in oil is generally a "slurry" of Type 1 and Type 2 contamination (built in "dirt" from manufacturing and wear materials from break in).

Other UOAs exist that more or less validate this one and it's far more likely Blackstone DID NOT blow this report than it is that they did, Hounds, and you have nothing to back up an assumption that they did. We could have a discussion on other aspects of Blackstone's operation, but I've not seen a single instance of a mix up of samples. I've been there and followed samples through every step of the testing process and I basically trust that part of their system... and the people that work there.

I guess the bigger question is whether any of this matters all that much. While I found my sphincter clenched at the sight of the wear metalsnumbers in the subject UOA, I have to honestly admit that's largely a BITOG-influenced reaction. It's all about picking nits here and I'm no less guilty than some others.

WIll a report like this have a significant impact on the life of the subject engine? Realistically, I would have to conclude the answer is probably no. The info I have sen lead me to conclude that UOA to be a fairly typical situation and the majority of Honda Pilot owners probably followed Honda's recommendations like this owner did. And, assuming this is a typical situation, Honda likely knows and it falls within their nominal/normal category, despite the abject cringing that we oil nerds undergo when we see things like that report.
 
I will state that I could care less what the official Honda website or owners manual states. Small minded people follow blindly. I'm not.

Concerning the low moly, some of it went out the tailpipe. There was a quart of low-moly top off oil. So, the numbers don't look too low to me.

And, whats Honda's OLM algorithm like?

Some food for thought:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2160501
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2166571
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2162573
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2170735

Gotta go. Need to preach my anti-owner's manual, anti-automaker recommendations, & anti OE fluid... heresy to the masses.
 
Originally Posted By: unDummy
I will state that I could care less what the official Honda website or owners manual states. Small minded people follow blindly. I'm not. . . .

And, whats Honda's OLM algorithm like?

Gotta go. Need to preach my anti-owner's manual, anti-automaker recommendations, & anti OE fluid... heresy to the masses.

Amen, Brother! I completely understand your desire to protect us from Honda's Commie Conspiracy to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=video&cd=7&ved=0CGQQtwIwBg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DN1KvgtEnABY&ei=XG53TfKcH8e5tgfyqaCnBg&usg=AFQjCNHG43RGV9uKw1zTC3AU-36esXmqdg
 
That isn't break in oil, it is good oil. Break in oil causes, on purpose, higher friction to wear parts faster, it's not meant to run a whole oci.

People can talk all they want to the contrary, but it is better to change the oil early on a new engine. Better isn't the same word as necessary. In this case one could use a high moly replacement oil if the moly is assumed to be the reason Honda chooses it. I think they just bought a high quality oil for FF and it happens to have high moly, like some other oils do.

Please someone explain exactly how cylinder wall roughness, as a major source of early wear particles, is better machined now than in 1950, 1985, or 1920.
 
I changed the FF at 1900 miles on my 01' Accord despite what the owners manual stated. It caused no adverse effects at all.
I have never done a UOA on this vehicle but one thing I notice is that the oil still looks very good when I change it. I did 3000 to 3500 mile OCIs for the first few years but upped it to 4000 to 4500 since joining BITOG.
 
Originally Posted By: kcrw02
2011 Honda Pilot v6
Factory fill
6242 miles and 8 months
Oil life monitor at 10%

approx 80% of miles were 10mi commute each way. Remaining 20% is highway long trips.

I refilled with Mobile 1 and a PureOne filter.

Code:
Comments: We're glad that you dumped this factory oil in your 3.5L, because it always has a bunch of junk in it

from the wear-in process that can get abrasive if left in place to long. Metals are a little higher than we

typically see in wear-in samples, so that might be the case here. Things should clear up after 2 or 3 more oil

changes. Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of engine after about 6,000 miles on the

oil. The viscosity was in the 5W/20 range and the 1.8% fuel dilution isn't a big concern. Try just 5,000 miles

on the next oil to wash that stuff out.



mi on oil 6242

mi on unit 6242

sample date 1/28/2011

make up oil added 1 qt



ALUMINUM 34

CHROMIUM 5

IRON 85

COPPER 203

LEAD 6

TIN 0

MOLYBDENUM 272

NICKEL 1

MANGANESE 12

SILVER 0

TITANIUM 0

POTASSIUM 4

BORON 78

SILICON 70

SODIUM 53

CALCIUM 1515

MAGNESIUM 136

PHOSPHORUS 592

ZINC 733

BARIUM 3



SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 45.7

cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 5.95

Flashpoint in °F 330

Fuel % 1.8

Antifreeze % 0.0

Water % 0.0

Insolubles % 0.4



Run to 10% OLM and enjoy low wear metals earlier on in your engine's life.
 
Originally Posted By: unDummy
I will state that I could care less what the official Honda website or owners manual states. Small minded people follow blindly. I'm not.

Concerning the low moly, some of it went out the tailpipe. There was a quart of low-moly top off oil. So, the numbers don't look too low to me.

And, whats Honda's OLM algorithm like?

Some food for thought:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2160501
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2166571
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2162573
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2170735

Gotta go. Need to preach my anti-owner's manual, anti-automaker recommendations, & anti OE fluid... heresy to the masses.


Nissan's manual goes something like this: "Our engineers and designers have taken the time and expense to provide your engine with a high quality oil from the factory. It is not necessary to change this oil earlier than the recommended interval. For proper break in procedure refer to section ....

Do not rev the motor past 4000RPM for the first 2000km".

That is all. Can I see your Engineering degree?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
AC/Delco Syn 5W/30, 5544 OCI, 2015 Canyon 3.6L
Replies
13
Views
836
OneLonelyBurrito
A
2017 Ford F53 6.8 V-10 Kendall GT-1 5W-30 4805 miles
Replies
11
Views
1K
fantastic
R
Castrol Edge 5W-50 UOA after 4 hours on the track in a Mustang GT
Replies
10
Views
1K
RevvCats
A
2012 Ford 3.0 V6 Kendall GT-1 5W-20 7060 Miles
Replies
2
Views
1K
FZ1
D
2012 Mazda5 (2.5L), Liqui Moly Special Tec AA 0W-20, 5134 mi
Replies
8
Views
1K
vpr5703
Back
Top