2001 Lincoln Continental - $5000 repair estimate in front suspension & steering - reasonable?

[bunnspecial]

My mistake for confusing a Lincoln with the Panther platforms. Lump them all together because of the shared 4.6L engines. That's really the main thing. The transverse engine on the Continental is a pain. I agree that the Town Car is simpler.

From your ownership history, you're no doubt aware of this but the Continental engine is a bit of a different beast in that it's the DOHC 32V version of the 4.6L modular. I've never seen their claimed unreliability first hand, but a lot of people consider this the most unreliable of the 4.6L engines, or at least much less so than the basically bullet proof(as long as the plugs don't seize in the heads...) SOHC 16V version.

The only Panther I'm aware of that got the 32V was the short lived, low production Marauder. It showed up in a few other Lincolns-I know the Mark VIII for sure and I think the Aviator? but it was a lot less common than the 16V or even 24V version. The 98-02(or was it 97?) Continental was the only one to get the transverse version of the engine.

 

[Audiman]

Out of,
A fix,
B replace with same again
C buy a new car

How long do you think you will be driving for as C may be the best option if you have the money to do it.

Enjoy your later years in life without the hassle or worry of car repairs. The miles you cover a new car should do 10 years with no more than servicing.

 

[Kruse]

About 6 weeks ago I took my 2001 Lincoln to Meineke to have Rear Brakes rotor and pads done for the first time (69K miles).

Does $6300 seem "reasonable" for just the things called out right now? The shop stated that they only use "FoMoCo" approved parts such as Moog. They won't put "lesser" quality parts on the car.

A couple of comments from me, even if it's been repeated before. You've got to stay away from the national chain repair shops. Period.
Find an independent shop that you can trust. Also, FoMoCo does not recommend Moog parts. Matter-of-fact, the Moog "R" line, what they very possibly could have used is some of the most entry-line Chinese-made parts on the market.

One of my sons lives hundreds of miles away from me and I can't work on his vehicles. One Saturday afternoon, he was driving and the battery went dead and left him set. The only place open was a national chain store that begins with the letter "F" and has the same name as some famous tires. They told him his Jeep needed an alternator and a new battery. I was on the phone with him and agreed that his alternator may have failed, but that battery was two months old. I talked to the shop foreman and was positively told the battery was bad. After the repair, I told them I would pay for the battery core, but I wanted that old battery put back in the back of his vehicle and he was going to leave with it so I could get warranty work done on it. My son watched them put the battery in the rear hatch of his Jeep and he then went inside to pay for the repair. When he got home, there was no battery in the back of his Jeep. Between the time he watched him put it in the back and the time he had paid, IT HAD MAGICALLY DISAPPEARED!

Another time he had a national chain store rebuild the whole front end of his Jeep, to the tune of about $4500. Before the work, they assured me they would use all factory OEM parts for the rebuild. Afterwards, I looked at the receipt and the replacement part numbers were the same as what you would find on the entry-level or Chicom-made parts on RockAuto. There was nothing I could do about it then. To make matters worse, almost exactly one year later, he had one of the cheapie ball joints come apart on him right as he was crossing the Texas-Mexico border and held up traffic in his lane until they could get a tow truck. Luckily, he was only going about 5 MPH when it happened. Those parts are not safe and can take lives.

 

[michaelluscher]

I'm at ~$600 with tax and shipping, for middle of the road aftermarket parts
If I worked at it harder, I could probably get better for less
+$400 if you wanted a 4 corner normal coil spring suspension conversion kit

I'm not opposed to people or businesses earning a living, but heavily marking up retail garbage Moog parts as "Ford Approved" is making my eye twitch

 

[Oro_O]

Among your options, I would strongly recommend getting it repaired and enjoying it, though not with those fine gentleman who gave you that quote.

You are well aware of the used car economics right now and you would be out a lot of cash to switch to anything remotely satisfying. I do also understand all the repairs you are facing as I went through it w/my dad on his contemporary Mark VIII to yours. We re-did the complete front suspension/steering, and rebuilt the airbags. You can throw big $$ at just swapping out all new air suspension parts, or find someone who understands the system who can replace the worn components (usually the valves on the bags and maybe the compressor) very economically. We had to teach ourselves the air suspension system, though their was a lot of helpful info online at this point, as well as plenty of individual components at reasonable prices. The one-off thing here is the air suspension and you will pay obscene prices to swap in all new parts to fix what might be one leaking valve and a weak compressor.

The best plan IMO is to find an independent mechanic who knows the system (even advertise for it on CL or FB Mktplace) and pay them to do the work. Ignore the wholesale parts-swapping approach the chains or a dealership will do. $1k to $2k to a good mechanic will get this back to excellent shape and then the car should outlast you.

 

[mrbreezeet1]

I assume that means the $5000 repair estimate is "not reasonable."



Not a bad idea. I had the car at Monroe Muffler about 3 yrs ago and they found nothing at all worth doing on the front suspension....even with a slight knock on that right front wheel area. They did the front brakes & rotors....which have worn out way too soon. I never really had a problem with these guys on other cars. Nothing failed again once they replaced it. I did "google" what a typical cost for extensive front end work was and $5000 did pop us as the upper end of expected range. I would imagine it's the chain repair shops suggesting that number too.

I have air bags in the rear. Struts/shocks up front. That sounds like semi-active suspension. On the 3 Lincolns I've had and 380K miles, never had to replace an air bag or air compressor. And these compressors have cycled quite a bit on all 3 cars.

My methodology on cars the past 25 yrs has been to find low mileage examples (20K-40K) and then drive them to the 80K to 100K mile point. If I get 5-8 yrs that's ideal. There have always been enough replacement cars around to keep doing it. But with these 1998-2011 LIncolns and Mercs now so old, those 25K-35K mile cars are far and few between....and prices are up 50-100%. I'd bet the vast majority of the used ones for sale in the 60K to 120K mile range probably need considerable mechanical work.....or soon to need it.


View attachment 176614

Nice looking car though!

 

[69GTX]

From your ownership history, you're no doubt aware of this but the Continental engine is a bit of a different beast in that it's the DOHC 32V version of the 4.6L modular. I've never seen their claimed unreliability first hand, but a lot of people consider this the most unreliable of the 4.6L engines, or at least much less so than the basically bullet proof(as long as the plugs don't seize in the heads...) SOHC 16V version.

The only Panther I'm aware of that got the 32V was the short lived, low production Marauder. It showed up in a few other Lincolns-I know the Mark VIII for sure and I think the Aviator? but it was a lot less common than the 16V or even 24V version. The 98-02(or was it 97?) Continental was the only one to get the transverse version of the engine.

I had a 1997 Lincoln Continental with the Transverse 32v DOHC. But, I think 1996 was the 1st year for the Lincoln Continental 32v DOHC. The hot Mustang got a 32v DOHC engine that year too. I know there's some extra complexity with these engines which includes 2 roller chains. Despite that, I've had nothing but great luck with these engines. Quiet and powerful. My worries are elsewhere, esp. that under-sized Taurus transmission.

The only reason one engine failed on me in 2009 at 212K miles is that something wasn't right with the alternator/water pump after sitting outside all winter because a shaft sensor was intermittently working. Car wouldn't start for 3 months until I finally found out about that cam sensor near the FR wheel well.....shook it.....probably got that tip here too ! It then started right up. That long sit from Jan-March essentially "killed" the car. There was also a metallic noise coming from the alternator/water pump area following that restart. Some proper R&R probably could have saved the engine. But the car wasn't even worth $600 to me. It was ready for the scrap yard anyways. The guy who bought it for $600 tried to drive it home 45 miles which I suggested he not do. The metal brake lines had some holes in them such that you got half a dozen pumps or so before the lines emptied out. The engine overheated about 35 miles out and then finally seized up on him. Dead. So I don't attribute that failure to a bad engine....more like bad cooling. Yes, I am concerned about frozen spark plugs which is why to date I've never even attempted one on my Continentals.

 

[69GTX]

Nice looking car though!

That photo is from 2018 just after purchase when I finished a detailing on the car at 39K miles. It now has quite a bit of alloy wheel corrosion and the rocker rust repairs would be visible today. But it's generally that clean over the main body. Wax it 2X per year.

Here's the rocker holes I punched out that started about "dime-sized." After hearing that it would cost $2000 at the body shop to do full length rockers....and a 3-6 month wait.....I just bought some 2 part epoxy and fiberglass and went to town for $50. It doesn't preclude a future owner from doing the proper metal repairs. I just wanted it quickly done and the holes sealed. I cleaned and primed inside the rocker as far my paint cans would spray. 1 yr later still holding up. But I figured the car's value dropped from $3K to $1,500 with that rust (last year.....and before I knew that the values of these cars went up in those past 3 yrs). So no way could I justify a professional repair. And no way I'm equipped to do it. So hence my "hack" repair". I could always sand down that fiberglass, feather it, and give it a some matching body paint. But not with the car's current condition. This year's front end fiasco is icing on that "rusty" cake.

 

[mrbreezeet1]

Too bad you're not around here, I could do it for you reasonably!
I worked on cars most of my life, l was a good general mechanic, albeit not high tech!

 

[69GTX]

Out of,
A fix,
B replace with same again
C buy a new car

How long do you think you will be driving for as C may be the best option if you have the money to do it.

Enjoy your later years in life without the hassle or worry of car repairs. The miles you cover a new car should do 10 years with no more than servicing.

I'd be happy with getting another 3-5 yrs out of the car once the front end, brakes, tires are done. That will take me up to 85K to
100K miles. And then sell it. At that point a final "forever" car could take me to the end of my driving days in my early to mid 80's.
But, I'd also be happy to dump the car right now IF the right Lincoln or Panther Platform with very low miles pops up nearby. I've got a few on the radar in the 20K to 35K mile range. But all of them out of state. And willing to pay the owner $100-$150 to drive it to me and then me driving them home. Personally, with my genetics, and the age of my parents' and aunts'/uncles' passing, later 70's is about all I should expect.....life expectancy right now is 75 for men. Used to be 78. I'd be tickled to make it to 80. So figure 5-10 more year of driving. And I do have the money to be a cash buyer of a new vehicle....which I really don't want to do.

 

[bdcardinal]

$820 for one rear calliper, can someone price a genuine rear calliper? I bet it’s max half of this and labour shouldn’t be more than like $100

Obsolete, like most parts for this car from a Ford dealer. When that caliper was available it was around $165ish.

Also most dealers would politely decline working on this. No offense to anyone that owns one, but there are parts availability issues, and the value on the vehicle is so low in the used car market that it does not make much financial sense to spend this much fixing one up.

 

[69GTX]

View attachment 176741
I'm at ~$600 with tax and shipping, for middle of the road aftermarket parts
If I worked at it harder, I could probably get better for less
+$400 if you wanted a 4 corner normal coil spring suspension conversion kit

I'm not opposed to people or businesses earning a living, but heavily marking up retail garbage Moog parts as "Ford Approved" is making my eye twitch

Thanks for that. Those prices are light years from Meineke. $46 for an axle! I'm pretty sure I paid nearly $200 for my last one (7 yrs ago) plus the labor to install. Like I said earlier, all my harder work was done at a very trusted shop I used for 20 yrs. But they are so busy now that I'm just another schmoe who hasn't given them much business the past 5 yrs. But this price list is an eye opener. I had no idea these brake and muffler shops were so over-priced when it came to anything but their bread and butter repairs. Other than that axle, I've rarely given them work other than brakes and exhaust pipes/mufflers.

 

[eljefino]

It's not just Meineke, the parts stores have reduced competition (AA and CQ are one now), increased inventory costs for increased part numbers on hand. If you want any shop to warranty their work they need a local parts store to play along with in case of parts problems.

 

[69GTX]

It's not just Meineke, the parts stores have reduced competition (AA and CQ are one now), increased inventory costs for increased part numbers on hand. If you want any shop to warranty their work they need a local parts store to play along with in case of parts problems.

I would think a "warranty" would not be beyond 30-90 days.....like a used car warranty is next to useless. In which case it's not very likely even low end parts would fail that early. I'd almost skip a warranty if I trusted the shop to do an install correctly. I can "warranty" any new parts failing early as long as they install them properly. These days, we all "self warranty" a lot of things. And it will only get worse as the price of parts, labor, insurance, and living in general keeps going higher.

 

[Nick1994]

Easy for me to spend your money. But sell it for cheap and sell that Camaro you don't drive and buy a nice new car.

This is going to sound rude and I really don't mean it to, but you're an old dude. I'd get something reasonably nice and not worry about chasing repairs on old panthers and worrying about maximizing every dollar per mile out of a car.

 

[D60]

Obsolete, like most parts for this car from a Ford dealer. When that caliper was available it was around $165ish.

Also most dealers would politely decline working on this. No offense to anyone that owns one, but there are parts availability issues, and the value on the vehicle is so low in the used car market that it does not make much financial sense to spend this much fixing one up.

And you could comment on if Ford considers Moog to be "like OEM" as apparently stated by Meineke? Sounds like and to me.....

 

[bdcardinal]

And you could comment on if Ford considers Moog to be "like OEM" as apparently stated by Meineke? Sounds like and to me.....

I memba when you could have faith that the Moog part would be a quality item that was arguably better than OEM in some applications.

 

[69GTX]

Easy for me to spend your money. But sell it for cheap and sell that Camaro you don't drive and buy a nice new car.

This is going to sound rude and I really don't mean it to, but you're an old dude. I'd get something reasonably nice and not worry about chasing repairs on old panthers and worrying about maximizing every dollar per mile out of a car.

I don't consider any new car I'd actually consider to be "nice". None will drive like a Lincoln Town Car in the under $35K price point. Nor will they have the size and safety when driving one. So why not spend half the price of a new RAV4 and buy a 25K mile Lincoln Town Car....(and not a turbo'd Lincoln MKZ with less storage space). Buying "new" will be a step down. The only gain is the lack of worrying about maintenance items during the warranty period.

Yeah, the 6 speed Camaro SS with 20K miles should probably go. Since the pandemic started I've hardly driven it 1000 miles. It's a backup car to my daily driver....and a fun car when I wanted to relive my muscle car years. It will only get tougher to get in and out of....and you have to be sharp at all times to keep gears where they should be. I can still do all the fluids and filters on it....but that's about it. At 20K miles, nothing mechanical on it should fail before 35K to 50K miles. That's 15+ yrs in the future....lol. It would make more sense to use the funds from a Camaro sale and use that for a Lincoln....or even towards a new car. Something I have been thinking about.

 

[mrbreezeet1]

I don't consider any new car I'd actually consider to be "nice". None will drive like a Lincoln Town Car in the under $35K price point. Nor will they have the size and safety when driving one. So why not spend half the price of a new RAV4 and buy a 25K mile Lincoln Town Car....(and not a turbo'd Lincoln MKZ with less storage space). Buying "new" will be a step down. The only gain is the lack of worrying about maintenance items during the warranty period.

Yeah, I'm old enough. The 6 speed Camaro SS with 20K miles should probably go. It will only get tougher to get in and out of....and you have to be sharp at all times to keep gears where they should be. I can still do all the fluids and filters on it....but that's about it. At 20K miles, nothing mechanical on it should fail before 35K to 50K miles. That's 15+ yrs in the future....lol.

Wrong post/thread

 

[Nick1994]

I don't consider any new car I'd actually consider to be "nice". None will drive like a Lincoln Town Car in the under $35K price point. Nor will they have the size and safety when driving one. So why not spend half the price of a new RAV4 and buy a 25K mile Lincoln Town Car....(and not a turbo'd Lincoln MKZ with less storage space). Buying "new" will be a step down. The only gain is the lack of worrying about maintenance items during the warranty period.

Yeah, the 6 speed Camaro SS with 20K miles should probably go. Since the pandemic started I've hardly driven it 1000 miles. It's a backup car to my daily driver....and a fun car when I wanted to relive my muscle car years. It will only get tougher to get in and out of....and you have to be sharp at all times to keep gears where they should be. I can still do all the fluids and filters on it....but that's about it. At 20K miles, nothing mechanical on it should fail before 35K to 50K miles. That's 15+ yrs in the future....lol. It would make more sense to use the funds from a Camaro sale and use that for a Lincoln....or even towards a new car. Something I have been thinking about.

I'd get a Lincoln Continental. Turbo V6, you don't drive a lot it'll last a long time. I just got a twin turbo V6 Genesis and it's quick! I have no desire for a sports car.

Here's a 2020 Continental with 24k miles for $36k
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