2 cycle oil mix question

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have the exact same trouble. I mix an oily 32:1 using what ever mix oil was sold at the local True Value. I'm using up a qt of Valvoline universal dino I've been running my Stihl FarmBoss for 40 yrs like this. I have had zero fouling troubles. I would rather be a bit down on power,than risk a scored piston and jug. I also add a little MMO so the smoke smells good. Once the saw gets hot it doesn't smoke.
 
Threads like these reassure my decision to never buy used. Everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong. I'm not calling anyone out or choosing sides (or saying that I'm right). I'm simply fascinated by how many different opinions there are, and how they can clash with someone else's maintenance plan.

I buy new that way if I am wrong, I can only blame myself.
 
Originally Posted By: andyd
I mix an oily 32:1 using what ever mix oil was sold at the local True Value. I've been running my Stihl FarmBoss for 40 yrs like this. I would rather be a bit down on power,than risk a scored piston and jug. I also add a little MMO so the smoke smells good. Once the saw gets hot it doesn't smoke.


32:1 creates excessive carbon on the piston top and in the exhaust. This carbon is what scores the cylinder walls/pistons. Your logic is 100% flawed.

You are much less likely to score a piston using the correct synthetic blend/synthetic mixture.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: andyd
I mix an oily 32:1 using what ever mix oil was sold at the local True Value. I've been running my Stihl FarmBoss for 40 yrs like this. I would rather be a bit down on power,than risk a scored piston and jug. I also add a little MMO so the smoke smells good. Once the saw gets hot it doesn't smoke.


32:1 creates excessive carbon on the piston top and in the exhaust. This carbon is what scores the cylinder walls/pistons. Your logic is 100% flawed.



Part of maintaining a two stroke motor includes top end rebuilds. Not maintaining a motor is 100% flawed.

Assuming reasonable oil quality and correct carburetor jetting - how can you say that 3% mixture (32/1) would hurt a motor? It won't. Using less oil could harm the motor unlike using 32/1.
 
Originally Posted By: buck91
I'm running Amsoil Saber 2-stroke somewhere north of 50:1 but WELL BELOW 100:1 in all my gear. That includes a Husqvarna saw, Poulan leaf blower and [censored] Snowthrower at the moment (though the blower and snowthrower need upgraded!). They all run GREAT with just the faintest bit of smoke and no pinging or knocking. Who knows if it lubes as well as Amsoils says, but that is why I am not going all the way up to their recommended "universal" 100:1.


This is good stuff. I did mix a can at 100:1 and used it in my leaf blower. Ran fine, still runs fine. Didn't track the hours at this ratio, and don't know that I would try it on anything else, but the fact remains that the thing didn't mind at all. I typically mix at around 50:1 with this oil aside from that experiment at 100:1.
 
Sounds like either 40:1 or 50:1 would be a good fit. The snowblower is the oldest of all the equipment and specs the highest concentration of oil. It also smokes the most. Once I run out of what I already have mixed I think I will just run 50:1 in all 3. Thanks everyone!
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: andyd
I mix an oily 32:1 using what ever mix oil was sold at the local True Value. I've been running my Stihl FarmBoss for 40 yrs like this. I would rather be a bit down on power,than risk a scored piston and jug. I also add a little MMO so the smoke smells good. Once the saw gets hot it doesn't smoke.


32:1 creates excessive carbon on the piston top and in the exhaust. This carbon is what scores the cylinder walls/pistons. Your logic is 100% flawed.

You are much less likely to score a piston using the correct synthetic blend/synthetic mixture.
I disagree completely. There is nothing wrong with running a mixture of 32:1 and it will not cause excessive carbon. Again, it is much more the oil than the ratio. Some oils burn cleaner, some do not. Boat oil is terrible for lawn equipment. Hard carbon deposits. 32:1 is on the safe side. Ive ran engines 20:1 with no troubles.
 
Also tearing down a two stroke for regular rebuilds is hogwash as well. I have two stroke quads with over 3000 miles and they have yet to be tore down and my lawn equipment is over 20 years old without every being disassembled or de-carbonized. All two stokes.
 
These posts are making me second guess using Lawn Boy oil and mixing them at 32:1 ratios.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: bubbatime


32:1 creates excessive carbon on the piston top and in the exhaust. This carbon is what scores the cylinder walls/pistons. Your logic is 100% flawed.

You are much less likely to score a piston using the correct synthetic blend/synthetic mixture.


Unproper carburator settings does that!!! People are leaning out their carburators...thinking that achiveing peak RPMs is what they are searching for...and they forget about "4stroking"....


90% of pistons scored only on muffler side belongs to that user mistake described here!!!
 
Originally Posted By: tony1679
Threads like these reassure my decision to never buy used. Everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong. I'm not calling anyone out or choosing sides (or saying that I'm right). I'm simply fascinated by how many different opinions there are, and how they can clash with someone else's maintenance plan.

I buy new that way if I am wrong, I can only blame myself.


Yep, there seem to be two opinions with many minor variations:
1) 40:1 or thicker is best.
2) 50:1 or thinner is best.

Generally speaking, for the majority of engines with a properly tuned carb, one of those options is wrong. Speaking of carb tuning, that's the other half of the ratio debate that it seems the majority of people ignore (or at least fail to mention often)... Oil in the gas is not gas, so to maintain proper air/gas ratio when changing oil/gas ratio means carb tuning.

So it's settled ??:1 ratio with a carb tuned for that ratio is clearly best.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Also tearing down a two stroke for regular rebuilds is hogwash as well. I have two stroke quads with over 3000 miles and they have yet to be tore down and my lawn equipment is over 20 years old without every being disassembled or de-carbonized. All two stokes.


The piston is designed to be a consumable item instead of beating up the cylinder and head. Your owner's manual should tell you the maintenance interval for this. Of course most failing OPE is just thrown in the landfill vice having engine maintenance performed. Carbon buildup, as noted in this thread, results typically from poor carburetion or using the wrong oil type (lacks detergency of JASO FC).
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: nitehawk55


Originally Posted By: Clevy
Just go with 32-1. If the equipment smokes too much lean it out a bit.


This is poor advice , you risk damage to the engine leaning it out . I worked for Stihl for several years , a good mix at 40:1 would be fine , you don't need any richer than that or you risk clogging muffler screens and the like with carbon .


Leaning out the mix ratio,not a/f

When you say leaning it out you're talking A/F mix , not changing your mix ratio .
Your statement to lean it out if it smokes can be misunderstood and there are people out there that believe if you put more oil in the mix it's OK to run the A/F leaner .
Believe me , I saw all sorts of issues when with the company .


I'm surprised I had to spell that out
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Shrubitup
or using the wrong oil type (lacks detergency of JASO FC).


Sorry but Jaso FC is decent oil spec....

Probably you meant FA or FB here
 
Went ahead and mixed up a new gas jug for the 2-cycle stuff. Mixed at 40:1 with Briggs and Stratton 2-Cycle oil and some fuel stabilizer. Used ethanol free gas. Filled up the snowblower and it definitely smokes a lot less and seems to run great on this mix.
 
Originally Posted By: fisher83
Went ahead and mixed up a new gas jug for the 2-cycle stuff. Mixed at 40:1 with Briggs and Stratton 2-Cycle oil and some fuel stabilizer. Used ethanol free gas. Filled up the snowblower and it definitely smokes a lot less and seems to run great on this mix.

Blowing snow in the end of June that definitely sucks.
 
Originally Posted By: Shrubitup
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Also tearing down a two stroke for regular rebuilds is hogwash as well. I have two stroke quads with over 3000 miles and they have yet to be tore down and my lawn equipment is over 20 years old without every being disassembled or de-carbonized. All two stokes.


The piston is designed to be a consumable item instead of beating up the cylinder and head. Your owner's manual should tell you the maintenance interval for this. Of course most failing OPE is just thrown in the landfill vice having engine maintenance performed. Carbon buildup, as noted in this thread, results typically from poor carburetion or using the wrong oil type (lacks detergency of JASO FC).
Pistons are not made to be a consumable item. I don't even know where you get this stuff. The rings are what touch's the cylinder walls. If your piston isvtouchingvthe cylinder and head, you have bigger problems but they won't last long before the piston disenergrates. I have a 1981 Yamaha with ALOT of miles and the original piston still in it. Two sets of rings. Still original bore/ head and "piston".
 
Oh boy a two cycle oil ratio thread! Let me get my popcorn!

I might as well chime in with my thoughts. I have a dozen small air cooled two cycle engines that I like and use. The engine maker's all spec the oil and oil ratio that they would like me to use in their engine. Also they spec the octane of the gas and some spec that no alcohol blended gas be used in their engines. My engines call for oil ratio's as rich as 16 to 1 and some run up to 50 to 1. Some of you are running 100 to 1 with special oils that have somehow been designed to hang around for a few seconds longer than the run of the mill dino oil that is out there. Typically two cycle oil is just passing thru your engine but if you have enough of it all is fine. If you don't then things get rough for the inside of your engine quick. Most people think that if they run the ratio too high the first thing they will trash is the piston and cylinder wall, but this does not seem to be as much of a problem as it was when two cycle oil was just 30w with little if any additives, and this stuff was ran at 16 to 1 smoked and stunk to high heaven. Today we have much better oil and additive packages to cut down on smoke, carbon, plug fouling and other nasties. With these better oils we can get away with running higher ratio's but why would we, do we know just what is happening at every second inside the engine or just guessing. So I have always ran what the manufacturer recommends for ratio's or richer and I have had no problems whatsoever. Most of my engines other than my lawnboys spec 50 to 1, most have never seen leaner that 32 to 1 for the same reason that some here will choose the higher ratio for multiple engines. I just don't want to have to keep several different ratio gas cans around. The second thing I do is I use the same oil for all the air cooled two cycle engines, Mobil One Racing Two cycle oil. I have a lifetime supply of this oil and it is fully synthetic oil, smokes very little and works very well in all my engines at 32 to 1. I have actually tested it and it reduces the temperature at the spark plug on my Lawnboy duraforce engines. I don't get carbon build up and have never needed to pull a head to de-carbon a piston, head, or exhaust port/muffler. With today's two cycle engines running lean due to EPA mandates for emissions this strikes at the very heart of a two cycle engine's desires as they like to run rich. I hear about people saying that they don't like the smoke from a two cycle engine so they like to run oils that the oil maker spec's at a high ratio and it does indeed reduce the smoke but at what cost? If you don't like exhaust smoke then get a four cycle. Oil is the life's blood of the two cycle engine, I would never starve it for my own comfort. Some say that richer ratios will lean out the engine and cut down on the power, my answer is to just adjust the carb a little to make up for it if you feel it is happening. More oil in the mix does not reduce power, it increases it due to better ring seal. This has been proven by the outboard racing folks whom have run ratio's as high as 8 to 1 and they have seen power increases but the engines did not want to idle and blew oil droplets out the exhaust. For those that want to run lean oil ratio's I would recommend full synthetic oils designed for the service you are using it for, air cooled or water cooled because the additive package will be correct then. For those that want to run automotive four stroke oil in there two cycles your on your own, the wrong additive package and base oil will shorten the life of the two cycle engine.

For those that noticed that their two cycle smoked a lot more at cold start up: The oil on the internal parts drains off and settles in the crank case. The engine is choked which will richen the mixture and provide even more oil. There is little heat to help the gas oil mixture separate and large oil droplets ten to smoke more. When the engine gets up to temp the droplets become vapor and burn cleaner, the crankcase is washed out of excess oil and the smoke lessens. Dino oil tends to burn and synthetic oil tends not to, which lessens carbon build up as only the gas contributes to the carbon build up.

My bottom line: Mix a high quality synthetic oil at the engine manufacturers recommended ratio or richer.

Adjust the carb to the correct engine running rpm.

Keep the cooling fins clean.

Don't use alcohol enhanced fuels if you can help it, Alcohol bonds with water and settles to the bottom of your tank leaving gas and oil above it, most tanks take fuel from the bottom of the tank where there is no oil, the rest is no fun. If you are forced to use alcohol/gas fuel then shake your can well to re-distribute the alcohol oil mix. Keep your can sealed from the air and mix small amounts at a time to keep water absorbtion down. Don't mix up more than you will use in 30 days and keep the gas can and fuel tank caps sealed when on in use.

Just for fun, get a quart jar with tight fitting lid. fill it half way up with gas alcohol mixture, put in an ounce or two of water, 1/2 oz. of two cycle oil. Lid it up and shake it, then set in on a shelf for a few days then come back and take a look. The alcohol will absorb the water, settle to the bottom, water and oil don't mix well so the alcohol and water will be oil free, at the bottom, where your tank outlet is. A minute of running on alcohol and water and no oil, well you get the picture.

Good luck to all here, treat your two cycle engines right and enjoy them.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top