10W30 can be used but not 5W30. Why?

[Tourist]

Originally Posted By: jake88

So, getting at the point of the question, given a synthetic blend 5W30 and 10W30, the 10W30 is likely to have higher viscosity at operating temperatures because the oil starts out thicker and relies less on polymer thickening (so it is more shear-stable). Does that clarify anything?


Please comment on these 2 specific oils. According to the car oil chart, the 10W30 is rated for ambient temperature 40C. The 5W30 is for 10C only.

MACH 5 SL 10W-30
Density @ 15°C, kg/l 0.864
Pour Point, °C -33
Flash Point, °C 228
Kinematic Viscosity, cSt
@ 40 °C 73
@ 100 °C 11.2
Viscosity Index 145
Cold Cranking Visc, cP
@ - 15 °C 4,200
Sulphated Ash, %wt 0.82
TBN, mg KOH/g 6
ASTM Colour 3.0

******************

Characteristics 5W-30
Density @ 15 °C, kg/l 0.854
Pour Point, °C -40
Flash Point, °C 215
Kinematic Viscosity, cSt
@ 40 °C 62.3
@ 100 °C 11.1
Viscosity Index 174
Cold Cranking Visc, cP
@ -30 °C 6.472
Sulphated Ash, %wt 0.83
TBN, mg KOH/g 6.4
ASTM Colour L2.5

Thanks.

 

[jake88]

Yeah, if you assume the above oils has typical OCP thickener that you see in most engine oils - then the 10W-30 is going to have a lot higher sheared viscosity and shear stability than the 5W-30. If you looked at the HTHS @ 150C, you would probably see the 5W-30 is significantly lighter.

 

[Tourist]

Originally Posted By: jake88
Yeah, if you assume the above oils has typical OCP thickener that you see in most engine oils - then the 10W-30 is going to have a lot higher sheared viscosity and shear stability than the 5W-30. If you looked at the HTHS @ 150C, you would probably see the 5W-30 is significantly lighter.


Sorry for asking. But I don't see HTHS listed so how do you know what's the HTHS for these 2 oils?

 

[jake88]

You could ask the manufacturer for that information, see if they have it. While I have been hypothesizing about the difference between the two to answer your question, in reality the difference may not be that exaggerated in fresh oil, anyway.

I have been hearing that 5W-30 may be the next big thing in HDEO... like, with the next category

 

[dnewton3]

PC-11 is the "next big thing" in HDEO.

 

[BoiseRob]

http://enr.construction.com/products/equ...nt-standard.asp

And I just got used to CJ4!

 

[jake88]

Yeah, PC-11 will be interesting. I have been hearing about engine manufacturers jumping to 5W-30 to meet CO2 standards.

The HD market is definitely slow to switch to the new technologies. I know many people are still using CI-4 Plus.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: jake88
I have been hearing that 5W-30 may be the next big thing in HDEO... like, with the next category


Don't count on it. ExxonMobil has discontinued their 5w-30 HDEO, and the only places that really have it anymore are some smaller outfits and coops. They also tend to be CI-4+ or older. If we're going to be seeing something outside of the regular HDEO grades we're used to, it'll likely be in the 0w-30 range, like Mobil Delvac Elite 222.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: jake88
Yeah, PC-11 will be interesting. I have been hearing about engine manufacturers jumping to 5W-30 to meet CO2 standards.

The HD market is definitely slow to switch to the new technologies. I know many people are still using CI-4 Plus.

There is an advantage to using CI-4+ in an engine that has no DPF. It typically has a higher starting TBN due to the additives allowed over CJ4, which may allow longer drain times. Also, off road diesel fuel often has higher sulfur content, which depletes the TBN more quickly.

 

[roadrunner1]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: jake88
Yeah, PC-11 will be interesting. I have been hearing about engine manufacturers jumping to 5W-30 to meet CO2 standards.

The HD market is definitely slow to switch to the new technologies. I know many people are still using CI-4 Plus.

There is an advantage to using CI-4+ in an engine that has no DPF. It typically has a higher starting TBN due to the additives allowed over CJ4, which may allow longer drain times. Also, off road diesel fuel often has higher sulfur content, which depletes the TBN more quickly.


Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong.

All diesel fuel is now 15ppm sulfur content.
Even though CI-4 + does have a higher starting tbn it has been proven since the introduction USLD that it isn't needed, and that CJ-4 lubes along with USLD have been proven over and over to provide excellent service life.

I have a perfect example;
One engine under my service had 375 hrs. service interval with CI-4+ lube, UOA at every change.
Jump forward to the introduction of CJ-4 and USLD, the manufacturer allowed the same engine to extend service interval to 500 hrs.
UOA came back better than ever before, lower wear metals, and viscosity was in grade with an additional 125 hrs.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: jake88
Yeah, PC-11 will be interesting. I have been hearing about engine manufacturers jumping to 5W-30 to meet CO2 standards.

The HD market is definitely slow to switch to the new technologies. I know many people are still using CI-4 Plus.

There is an advantage to using CI-4+ in an engine that has no DPF. It typically has a higher starting TBN due to the additives allowed over CJ4, which may allow longer drain times. Also, off road diesel fuel often has higher sulfur content, which depletes the TBN more quickly.


Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong.

All diesel fuel is now 15ppm sulfur content.
Even though CI-4 + does have a higher starting tbn it has been proven since the introduction USLD that it isn't needed, and that CJ-4 lubes along with USLD have been proven over and over to provide excellent service life.

I have a perfect example;
One engine under my service had 375 hrs. service interval with CI-4+ lube, UOA at every change.
Jump forward to the introduction of CJ-4 and USLD, the manufacturer allowed the same engine to extend service interval to 500 hrs.
UOA came back better than ever before, lower wear metals, and viscosity was in grade with an additional 125 hrs.

Notice I said that it MAY have advantages.

However I did not know that ALL off road diesel fuel is ULSD.

 

[jake88]

CJ-4 is legit, and you can get high TBN CJ-4 with ashless alkaline reserve (which has the added benefit of anti-oxidant performance).