0w-20 Now rated Acea A3/B4 api SL/CF

[salgra]

Good day everyone,
With lots of pleasure i have been reading and learning around on this site.

I have been fascinated with engine oil for a while now, and my personal conclusion is; You need an engine oil as thin as possible yet maintain a high film strength to prevent engine wear.
I live in the Netherlands, A large oil company called kroon olie, created a 0w20 engine oil rated Acea A3/B4 Api SL/CF.
I called them to make sure it really has a hths of 3.5 and they confirmed it has. the product is called Enersynth FE 0W20.
link to the specs;
http://www.kroon-oil.com/en/products/cat...rsynth-fe-0w20/
I have ordered this oil for my cars,
3.2 did pajero
berlingo 2.0 hdi
mercedes a 160
What do you guys think about this engine oil?
How could they have created such a thin oil yet have such a high hths value?

King regards
salgra

 

[simple_gifts]

Very interesting and Welcome!

What was the cost? (if you don't mind our asking)

Odd they would produce a 0W-20 for Europe since we all know it is only to satisfy US CAFE requirements (I am kidding)

 

[salgra]

I ordered it for € 13.80 a liter ( a quart ).
the same like GC 0w30 or shell 5w40

 

[chubbs1]

That is hard to believe. We need CATERHAM on this one. Looking at the PDS, nothing pops out that makes things different from other 0w20's except the fact it is probably a high quality Grp IV Ester oil, that is the only thing that leads me to believe it could have that kind of HTHS rating.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Salgra,

Welcome to BITOG, it's nice to have you on board.

Kroon is certainly a well respected supplier of lubricants in Europe, and I have been looking at their lineup from time to time. But let me say I am very surprised a 0W-20 viscosity meets A3/B4 specifications, despite the viscosity of 8.53 cSt at 100 Celsius. The oil I am using (Liqui-Moly Synthoil Longtime 0W-30) meets the same specifications with a viscosity of 10.1 cSt at 100 Celsius! My understanding is a very high quality base oil is being used, which enables it meet tough requirements.

Having said that, I believe Mitsubishi recommends 0W-30 or 5W-30 oils only if the meet A3/B3/B4 specifications for the 4M41 engine. Whilst this 0W-20 certainly meets the requirements, please double check with Kroon as to whether or not they would suggest this product for your application. I wouldn't think twice about using it in a petrol engine, but I would be a bit concerned personally about using a 0W-20 in a diesel engine, regardless of whether or not it meets A3/B3/B4. I would say the same for the Citroen and the Mercedes.

 

[dparm]

This will be of interest to a lot of VW 502/505 oil users, as they need 3.5+ on HTHS.

 

[BTLew81]

Indeed....VW guy here. This is pretty interesting.

 

[dparm]

VI is only 162, which seems low for a 0w20.

Motul 8100 = 162
Redline = 166
M1 AFE = 173
Honda 0w20 = 170?
Motul 300V = 177
RLI = 178
Silkolene Pro R = 179
Toyota = 215?
Eneos = 228

 

[salgra]

That is strange indeed, the a3/b4 rating make's it suitable for heavy duty engine life right?

 

[Ibrahim]

closest thing we have locally available which can go head on with this product is RLI 0W-20 & RL 5W-20!

 

[badnews]

Quote:
and my personal conclusion is; You need an engine oil as thin as possible


Why ?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: badnews
Quote:
and my personal conclusion is; You need an engine oil as thin as possible


Why ?

Because you seem to have ignored the second half of his sentence.

 

[fdcg27]

Wow!
An A3 0W-20?
That seems like an oxymoron.
Still, the Kroon PDS does indeed specify that the 0W-20 oil meets A3/B4 as well as SM/CF.
Kroon also offers a 0W-30, a 0W-40 and a couple of 5W-40s, along with a host of other grades.
Interesting oils from a company I didn't know existed.
Kroon even has a decent site, although the PDS for the 0W-20 left much detail (like HTHS) to the imagination.
Someone should get US distribution rights for Kroon products.
If they could be priced reasonably by the company to an exporter, container loads are not that expensive to land in Jersey from Holland.

 

[dparm]

Or just find someone who lives over there to send it to you.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: salgra
That is strange indeed, the a3/b4 rating make's it suitable for heavy duty engine life right?


Not for heavy duty diesels. A3/B4 makes it suitable for light duty diesels. Heavy duty oils in the ACEA system require E-ratings.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Wow!
An A3 0W-20?
That seems like an oxymoron.
Still, the Kroon PDS does indeed specify that the 0W-20 oil meets A3/B4 as well as SM/CF.
Kroon also offers a 0W-30, a 0W-40 and a couple of 5W-40s, along with a host of other grades.
Interesting oils from a company I didn't know existed.


I agree. Weird. A 0w20 that meets A3/B3/B4 specs. Now I can die, because I've seen everything.

Why would somebody want to make such an oil? Since HTHS is the main indicator of the fuel economy performance of an engine oil, having an HTHS that most 30-weights can't achieve defeats the purpose of having 20-weight kinematic viscosities. Maybe they have it loaded with friction modifiers to try to offset the high HTHS.

Equally as odd is the fact that their 0w30 is A1/B1, A5/B5 rated. These are the ACEA ratings for fuel economy oils. One could probably get better fuel economy using the 0w30.

 

[A_Harman]

Running the specs of this oil through my shear stability calculation, it seems impossible to have an oil with such low kinematic viscosity to have HTHS of 3.5 or greater.

Based on the KV40, KV100, and density numbers on the PDS, this oil should have a dynamic viscosity at 150C of 2.87. Taking the ratio of HTHS to DV150: 3.5/2.87 = 1.22.

This is significantly higher than all of Redline's oils, which are considered around here to be very shear-resistant:
RL 0w20 = .90
RL 5w20 = 1.03
RL 5w30 = 1.03

I know I shouldn't say this oil is impossible, but can some of the lube chemists explain how this oil can have HTHS 22% higher than its predicted dynamic viscosity at the same temperature?

 

[dparm]

Harman, you and I have discussed that formula before. I think that 1.0 might be near the theoretical maximum for that formula. There's almost no oils that beat 1.0 by more than 0.05 or so.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsh...;hl=en_US#gid=0


I am starting to think the PDS is either wrong or they've got some crazy tribologists there.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: dparm
VI is only 162, which seems low for a 0w20.

Motul 8100 = 162
Redline = 166
Amsoil = 166
M1 AFE = 173
Honda 0w20 = 170?
Motul 300V = 177
RLI = 178
Silkolene Pro R = 179
Toyota = 215?
Eneos = 228


There I fixed it.

For the cost, I have my doubts. They found the magic combo? Hmm.....

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Harman, you and I have discussed that formula before. I think that 1.0 might be near the theoretical maximum for that formula. There's almost no oils that beat 1.0 by more than 0.05 or so.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsh...;hl=en_US#gid=0


I am starting to think the PDS is either wrong or they've got some crazy tribologists there.


Yep. I agree that the max value of the shear resistance calculation should be about 1.0. This is why the Kroon 0w20 has me in a state of high-speed wobble. I was hoping that somebody like TonNJ would be able to explain how an oil could have such a high HTHS/DV150 value.