On this oil change interval, my wife and I took a vacation to Big Bend NP and Guadalupe Mountains NP. We towed a 5000 lb trailer through the West Texas mountains in some of the most brutal heat possible. We also did some really cool 4 wheeling at Big Bend. Looks like the oil did just fine.
08 Tundra 5.7 Supertech High Mileage Full Syn 10W-30 5882 miles
- Thread starter garyb80
- Start date
You do not have TBN and TAN! So it is hard to say how oil did as we can't see. Considering KV100 I would say there is some oxidative thickening.
Next time, order TBN and TAN. Wear numbers are irrelevant unless you have some drastic spike or established trend where you can see something unusual.
Next time, order TBN and TAN. Wear numbers are irrelevant unless you have some drastic spike or established trend where you can see something unusual.
I do not care about TBN or TAN. I don't plan on extending the OCI any longer so if there was a little oxidative thickening at the end of the OCI then I'd say the interval is about right. I was mainly looking for evidence of coolant or silica contamination. Any abnormally large numbers in wear metals I would be interested in as well.
OK, I mean it is used oil analysis, not used engine analysis. Sure, if you are concerned about coolant, it is a good way to see.
I would run it against usual suspects like M1 10W30 etc. to see how it holds up.
I agree With Buster. Drive on. If you’re doing 5k OCI’s it really won’t matter 5w30 or 10w30 any super tech oil. Those 5.7 are long running engines and seem to be easy on oil.
I swear, those 5.7 engines have some of the lowest iron numbers I've seen on almost any engine made. Superb quality motor.
Maybe it’s just me, but I find this comment both hilarious and annoying at the same time.
If TBN isn’t important anymore, then maybe the API and others should just stop testing for it in Virgin oil analysis and just remove it as a data point all together from their spec sheets since SOME Bob’s find it useless all the sudden.
TBN along with TAN, oxidation, etc etc are all data points and TOGETHER help paint a picture.
Just because we’ve basically Never seen a used oil TBN reading of ZERO (always shows at least 1-2 left) doesn’t mean it’s useless.
My opinion is you want TBN, TAN and Oxidation. They're all valuable. TBN less so, especially due ot the new Ashless chemistry which is not picked up by TBN tests.Maybe it’s just me, but I find this comment both hilarious and annoying at the same time.
If TBN isn’t important anymore, then maybe the API and others should just stop testing for it in Virgin oil analysis and just remove it as a data point all together from their spec sheets since SOME Bob’s find it useless all the sudden.
TBN along with TAN, oxidation, etc etc are all data points and TOGETHER help paint a picture.
Just because we’ve basically Never seen a used oil TBN reading of ZERO (always shows at least 1-2 left) doesn’t mean it’s useless.
"Good performance in your engine oil isn’t about having a high-detergent TBN measurement alone: It’s about having the right balance of oxidative stability, soot dispersancy, deposit control, wear performance, detergency and TBN retention"
3:30
"One other thing... Most folks would consider an engine oil to be shot when the TBN reaches 2 - 3. This isn't actually the case. An oil can function quite happily with a TBN of zero. The thing you have to remember is that oil formulators don't tend to focus directly on stuff like TBN depletion, acid formation or oil oxidation. What they're really concerned with is the onset of exponential viscosity increase. For many of the lengthy, industry standard engine based oxidation tests, it's both impractical and uneconomic to just use over based detergent to control oxidation. Given how fast it can deplete, you might need an oil with a starting TBN of around 20 to keep the TBN above 2 at the end of the test! For this reason, modern oils contain a cocktail of various Antioxidant chemistries, each of which plays a role in keeping the oil from 'breaking' long after the TBN reserve has been exhausted. Just to be clear, there's nothing wrong per se with changing out your oil when the TBN hits 2 - 3 but if you do a UOA, and find the oil's TBN is zero, it's not something to freak out about."
- SonofJoe
Last edited:
Thanks for the lengthy post @buster
I know an oil can continue to function “quite happily” with a TBN of zero
The point is, if TBN / TAN relationship shows how much acid fighting power you have left, I don’t know about you, but I prefer to keep my engine in an Alkaline state over being Acidic.
I service a dozen random vehicles on the side and like to experiment. I catch the used oil into a very clean pan and then transfer it over into brand new, clean water jug gallons.
What I’ve discovered over the years is that the exact same oil (I use Havoline ProDS in everything) will STAIN the clear jugs after sitting in there for only a week while used oil from a clean & healthy engine WILL NOT, even if I let it sit there for A MONTH before dumping it out.
Acidic much? Lack of TBN? Fuel content? Who knows. 
I know an oil can continue to function “quite happily” with a TBN of zero
The point is, if TBN / TAN relationship shows how much acid fighting power you have left, I don’t know about you, but I prefer to keep my engine in an Alkaline state over being Acidic.
I service a dozen random vehicles on the side and like to experiment. I catch the used oil into a very clean pan and then transfer it over into brand new, clean water jug gallons.
What I’ve discovered over the years is that the exact same oil (I use Havoline ProDS in everything) will STAIN the clear jugs after sitting in there for only a week while used oil from a clean & healthy engine WILL NOT, even if I let it sit there for A MONTH before dumping it out.
Acidic much? Lack of TBN? Fuel content? Who knows. That's interesting thanks for sharing. I prefer to have all of the above as you said. I've seen some RL UOA's on the Russian Oil Club where TAN spiked well above the TBN. That would be concerning.
BTW the Havoline PRO RS is 1/3 Bio based so likely good solvency. Have you tried that one?
The ultra premium oils give you everything - superior oxidation resistance, high detergency/TBN and SA.
BTW the Havoline PRO RS is 1/3 Bio based so likely good solvency. Have you tried that one?
The ultra premium oils give you everything - superior oxidation resistance, high detergency/TBN and SA.
@buster — yes I tried the RS formula in Wifey’s GMC Acadia last year. Wasn’t too impressed with it as a “Premium Oil” from Havoline and that was BEFORE they increased the price of it to over $35
Here’s a thread of it.
TBN: 1.6
TAN: 5.0
Some would say that is fine. To me, that oil is probably Acidic naturally and not something I want to use in my fragile GM engine.
Here’s a thread of it.
Havoline Pro-RS 5w30 -- 6,800 miles -- 2013 GMC Acadia
This is the newly released Havoline Pro-RS oil. I had collected a 7,500 mile sample from this engine but it got mixed up with another sample bottle and since i couldn't decide which is where (I even smelled the samples) I just trashed both and started over. 11% Oil Life remaining on the...
bobistheoilguy.com
TBN: 1.6
TAN: 5.0
Some would say that is fine. To me, that oil is probably Acidic naturally and not something I want to use in my fragile GM engine.
Wow I missed that one. Yeah that's not a good sign LOL.@buster — yes I tried the RS formula in Wifey’s GMC Acadia last year. Wasn’t too impressed with it as a “Premium Oil” from Havoline and that was BEFORE they increased the price of it to over $35
Here’s a thread of it.
Havoline Pro-RS 5w30 -- 6,800 miles -- 2013 GMC Acadia
This is the newly released Havoline Pro-RS oil. I had collected a 7,500 mile sample from this engine but it got mixed up with another sample bottle and since i couldn't decide which is where (I even smelled the samples) I just trashed both and started over. 11% Oil Life remaining on the...bobistheoilguy.com
TBN: 1.6
TAN: 5.0
Some would say that is fine. To me, that oil is probably Acidic naturally and not something I want to use in my fragile GM engine.
More reason why I won't use B/S Labs. Pretty much useless at this point.
dnewton3
Staff member
The oil exists to serve the engine, not the other way around. Hence, engine wear is more important than oil status.
If the lubricant was a mix of 50% dog urine and 50% goat milk, and yet you got excellent wear trends for repeated 10k mile OCIs, would it matter what was in the crankcase? Don't focus on the wrong things. UOAs are not perfect, nor do they see all things. But they are an excellent way to track wear trends in both macro and mirco analysis. UOAs are, by far, the least expensive and easiest way to infer engine wear.
The TBN/TAN is only important as a predictor as to what MIGHT happen at some point in the future in extended OCIs, as an indicator to potential shift in wear. If TBN or TAN shifts, and wear trends remain unaffected, then how important is TBN/TAN as a condemnation point? (Hint: It's not ... because without correlation, there can be no causation.) I'm not saying TBN/TAN are unimportant; that's not true. But when OCIs are moderate, and wear trends are fine, then the status of TBN/TAN is moot.
I have around 30k UOAs in my database. In all of them where TBN/TAN are known, there's no statistically significant correlation between those values and wear trends in macro data streams from "normal" OCIs. No correlation whatsoever.
The OP is correct here; his moderate OCI does not call for knowing the TBN/TAN. The wear data is enough.
Based on your comment that I bolded above, that SuperTech did more than just fine!
Thanks for posting.
As I said, he needs to establish a trend. Unless there is an unusual spike in wear, it does not mean anything when it comes to state of oil.
Correction - no oxidation value and inaccurate fuel dilution is why I don't use B/S Labs.
Later years of this engine had a 10K manufacturer stated OCI. I think he's fine at 58xx without TBN/TAN, just personally speaking.
Similar threads
- Locked
