Rotella T 10W-30, 5003 mi, '96 Buick RMWagon 5.7l

[WishIhadatruck]

Changed it back in May with Shell Rotella T 10W-30 and reused the Amsoil oil filter that was on it after draining out the old oil.
Previous fill 5,000 miles of the same oil, see previous UOA here.
Third sample of 5/15/09 was the previous fill of Rotella T 10W-30 and a new Amsoil filter.
Second sample of 7/28/08 was GC with a UPF-52 filter.
First sample of 9/2/07 was Valvoline 10W-30 most likely with a cheap oil filter from my mechanic after fixing some oil leaks.
Napa Gold air filter used, changed at 120k and 130k.

Blackstone Coments:
Aluminum jumped up significantly and this could show a problem developing at pistons. Interestingly, other metals generally read in line with averages. Lead (bearings) increased by 5 ppm, but still reads close enough to average to not be of special concern. The viscosity was higher than spec for a typical 10W/30, reading in the 10W/40 range. We can't tell if this is from excess heat, but no contamination caused it, as no fuel or coolant existed in the oil. The 2.3 TBN shows some active additive left. If the engine runs well, resample in 2-3K miles next fill. Caution!

Comments welcome. If it wasn't for the Aluminum I'd be pretty happy. The Aluminum is scary high. I'm going to do a 2500 mile run and check it again. I did abuse the car severely this run. 2400 miles of this run was towing my 5500 lb travel trailer thru the state of NY which resulted in many miles on long up hills where it was running nearly full throttle for miles at a time. Although we spent quite a bit of time in the Adirondack mountains, one day in particular stands out as we headed west from NY city and it was 90+ degrees. On the long up hills the engine temp. was running around 230 degrees for a sustained period of time. Normally the gauge will run 200-205. I never detected it audibly but perhaps there was some detonation going on eating at the pistons? The car does have an oil to water oil cooler but based on the oil viscosity it would appear to me the oil got hot right along with the engine. Maybe an additional air to oil oil cooler would help here. Perhaps running premium fuel would help as well if there was any detonation?

Code:


OIL RT 10W-30 RT 10W-30 GC 0W-30 Valv. 10W-30

MILES IN USE 5.0k 5.0k 5.6k 4.6k Uni Avg

MILES 130k 125k 118k 108k

SAMPLE TAKEN 8/20/09 5/15/09 7/28/08 9/2/07



ALUMINUM 34 7 6 6 7

CHROMIUM 1 1 1 1 2

IRON 22 26 19 22 37

COPPER 4 3 4 5 11

LEAD 15 10 32 19 13

TIN 0 3 0 0 2

MOLYBDENUM 7 8 7 15 52

NICKEL 1 1 1 1 1

MANGANESE 0 0 1 0 2

SILVER 0 0 0 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0 0 0 0

POTASSIUM 5 4 2 1 9

BORON 19 14 5 7 42

SILICON 18 26 29 94 23

SODIUM 9 7 7 8 26

CALCIUM 2188 1864 1648 1701 1948

MAGNESIUM 49 152 526 66 252

PHOSPHORUS 894 876 868 616 787

ZINC 1189 1076 1054 737 950

BARIUM 0 0 0 2 1





SUS VIS 210ºF 69.7 65.6 66.2 59.3

cSt @ 212ºF 12.88 11.78 11.95 10.02

FLASHPOINT ºF 400 385 385 390

FUEL %
ANTIFREEZE % 0.0 0 0 0

WATER % 0 0 0 0

INSOLUBLES % 0.3 0.4 0.3 0.3

TBN 2.3 2.7 3.6 2.6

 

[tomcat27]

I'm gonna guess that the Al is from your high temp run - aluminum (pistons) expand much faster than other metals, probably contributing to the wear. I would not be concerned as long as the trend does not continue. 230 is not technically overheating, but its certainly higher than "normal". were you also running the A/C in the 90 degree heat when you were climbing the hills? if you can stand it, try running without the A/C is this situation presents itself again. Or run the mtns early or late in the day. maybe even at night.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

Yes the A/C was on and had the temp. of the engine gotten much hotter I would have told my wife and 3 kids tough, we're turning it off. Most of our trip was in cooler weather other than this one day and getting out of Jersey City where we were camped after rush hour was our main goal rather than trying to do it in the early morning. I'm hoping it drops down in the next sample. I'm sure the engine was never worked so hard in its entire life so perhaps it is a little late life breaking in .

 

[addyguy]

I don't know how this engine is still surviving. You lead numbers have always been fairly high, so higher than normal bearing wear has been occuring. Now add to that severe piston wear, and this engine isn't long for this world. You'll either spin a rod bearing or crack a piston one of these days.....

 

[RWEST]

Quote:
getting out of Jersey City

An admirable idea!!!

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
I don't know how this engine is still surviving. You lead numbers have always been fairly high, so higher than normal bearing wear has been occuring. Now add to that severe piston wear, and this engine isn't long for this world. You'll either spin a rod bearing or crack a piston one of these days.....


Agreed.

Careful with this engine if you want it to last.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

Originally Posted By: RWEST
Quote:
getting out of Jersey City

An admirable idea!!!


No kidding, the day we arrived was when 5 police officers were shot (killed?) back in July. We spent most of our time in NYC however and had a good time the 24hrs we were in the area.

Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I don't know how this engine is still surviving. You lead numbers have always been fairly high, so higher than normal bearing wear has been occuring. Now add to that severe piston wear, and this engine isn't long for this world. You'll either spin a rod bearing or crack a piston one of these days.....


Agreed.

Careful with this engine if you want it to last.



Hopefully you're both wrong. We'll see but the Al does worry me quite a bit. Not enough to start babying it however. If I have to baby it the car really isn't worth having so it will continue to get worked. It has hauled my travel trailer another 400+ miles since this sample was pulled and does its daily job of hauling kids and stuff. It certainly won't see abuse like it did in that last OCI until at least next summer and even then I doubt it will be as bad. If we stay out of the mountains it has no trouble running cool and seems to run really well. If it weren't for doing an oil analysis I'd have no idea there was any problem at all. If the Al stays high however then I think it might be a real problem and I'll just have to set aside money for a new motor perhaps. Al is definitely up in the emergency range.

 

[addyguy]

Truthfully, if you're going to continue to run the engine this hard during the summer, I'd move move up to a 15W-40 HDEO, or even a 20W-50 PCMO. At that level of oil stress, those oils will be in there element, and not the lightest bit 'too thick'.....

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Truthfully, if you're going to continue to run the engine this hard during the summer, I'd move move up to a 15W-40 HDEO, or even a 20W-50 PCMO. At that level of oil stress, those oils will be in there element, and not the lightest bit 'too thick'.....


+1 on the 15w40.

 

[tig1]

For that kind of abuse I would use M1 15-50. It's avery tough oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: tig1
For that kind of abuse I would use M1 15-50. It's avery tough oil.


I'd use TDT 5w40, but if the engine is on its way south, I can't see spending the money on better oil......

 

[JAG]

If the high AL is possibly from detonation, increasing oil viscosity beyond this already reasonably oil is not the solution. Higher octane gasoline, insuring piston tops and valves are not overly carboned, and using good spark plugs of right heat range are some solutions for detonation.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JAG
If the high AL is possibly from detonation, increasing oil viscosity beyond this already reasonably oil is not the solution. Higher octane gasoline, insuring piston tops and valves are not overly carboned, and using good spark plugs of right heat range are some solutions for detonation.


Unless its scuffing or oil film break-down on the piston skirts.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

I'm pretty familiar with what detonation sounds like and I never heard it while towing. I suppose that doesn't mean it wasn't occuring. I use 87 octane and could try 91 octane next summer to see what happens. I'm certainly willing to try thicker oils in the summer as well as add an additional air-oil oil cooler. I've sent a sample to Terry Dyson before and I probably will in the next sample or two depending on what I see. I might send it no matter what I see. He's much more expensive of course but it is worth getting his opinion now and then.

 

[addyguy]

What did yo re-fill with? Sorry if I missed it......

 

[WishIhadatruck]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: JAG
If the high AL is possibly from detonation, increasing oil viscosity beyond this already reasonably oil is not the solution. Higher octane gasoline, insuring piston tops and valves are not overly carboned, and using good spark plugs of right heat range are some solutions for detonation.


Unless its scuffing or oil film break-down on the piston skirts.


If there was piston scuffing, would you expect iron wear to go up as well?

Originally Posted By: addyguy
What did yo re-fill with? Sorry if I missed it......


I refilled with more of the same, Rotella T 10W-30. I have enough in stock to do one more change.

 

[ATS-V]

I think detonation due to high load/temp is the cause of the Al. I would pull the plugs and inspect the color/burn and replace with one heat range colder plug. If towing heavy loads I would run 93 octane fuel especially during the summer months.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

Originally Posted By: 97 GTP
I think detonation due to high load/temp is the cause of the Al. I would pull the plugs and inspect the color/burn and replace with one heat range colder plug. If towing heavy loads I would run 93 octane fuel especially during the summer months.



I did some looking on several spark plug mfg's websites and now have learned enough to know what heat range of plugs mean and how it is accomplished (I think). However, I was not able to learn how to find what plugs are the same but with different heat ranges. How would I find a plug that is one heat range cooler? The only way I've even been able to find a part # on the websites is to plug in my vehicle info. and it only gives me one option, such as an NGK TR5. How do I find what the next colder plug is that is the same in all other respects? I currently have the AC/Delco standard replacements in there, they are Platinum I believe rather than Iridium. Is there a downside to a colder plug? How likely am I to run into fouling issues if it is colder when I'm not working the engine hard? Is simply running 93 octane alone a good solution since I can change to it when necessary?

 

[FZ1]

O.K. Here's what to do. Switch to M1 oil filters. Forget the uoas. You are gonna need the money saved. Stay with the current weight of oil. Run the oem spec plug and carefully gap and torque them. I prefer ngk. Consider towing in a lower gear. Consider using premium gas when towing.It burns slightly cooler.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
O.K. Here's what to do. Switch to M1 oil filters. Forget the uoas. You are gonna need the money saved. Stay with the current weight of oil. Run the oem spec plug and carefully gap and torque them. I prefer ngk. Consider towing in a lower gear. Consider using premium gas when towing.It burns slightly cooler.


Why switch to M1 oil filter? Perhaps the UOA's are a waste of money, but if I quit doing them I won't know if I fix the problem or not, if possible. I think the OEM's that I put in might be NGK plugs. I always tow in 3rd gear but sometimes that doesn't give me enough rpm's for the load, swapping out the 2.93 gears for 3.73's would be nice. I will try premium gas next time I tow. I tried one tankful on our long trip out east but did not notice a difference but that was before we hit the mountains.