Recent Topics
You meet the nicest people on a Honda.:)
by A310 - 04/09/20 08:43 PM
Moving to Illinois-Emissions Testing
by bunnspecial - 04/09/20 08:35 PM
WHY 91 Octane Fuel for Acura
by David1 - 04/09/20 08:34 PM
Burris 5x prism
by JHZR2 - 04/09/20 06:49 PM
Meprolight Night Sights
by BlueOvalFitter - 04/09/20 05:06 PM
f150 front iwe lubrication
by F_150_18 - 04/09/20 04:49 PM
f150 front iwe lubrication
by F_150_18 - 04/09/20 04:42 PM
Smith & Wesson Model 66 - Old or New?
by RonRonnster - 04/09/20 04:35 PM
API CF-4 for monograde products
by TexasForever - 04/09/20 04:02 PM
Pressure Washer - Racing Oil?
by hal26 - 04/09/20 03:41 PM
Oil accumulator to prevent engine wear
by IMSA_Racing_Fan - 04/09/20 03:32 PM
Colorado tire load question
by wafflenator - 04/09/20 02:32 PM
Critique my purchase: 1962 Dodge Lancer
by ArtDecoWorld - 04/09/20 01:54 PM
Automated ABS brake system bleed
by DIY4quality - 04/09/20 12:07 PM
Autozone $7 off $30
by 69Torino - 04/09/20 11:44 AM
Dimmable LED bulbs that DON'T buzz?!
by Klutch9 - 04/09/20 11:28 AM
Oil for 2015 Yukon XL Denali 6.2
by Strjock81 - 04/09/20 11:17 AM
AWD systems and donut spare
by Drew99GT - 04/09/20 11:06 AM
Window Tint/clear bra cost
by Drew99GT - 04/09/20 10:58 AM
Newest Members
M3gilly, Spalloc, DFedors, Lester1234, Benn
71145 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
123 registered members (14Accent, 77GrandPrix, A310, 4WD, Alfred_B, 53' Stude, 8 invisible), 1,936 guests, and 19 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics303,846
Posts5,243,006
Members71,145
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Blotter Test #59757 12/22/03 10:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
T
TallPaul Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
I searched the BITOG site and there is not much on this relatively simple test. I have been running blotter samples over the last oil change and have some interesting results (dark ring formation), but little info to interpret them. While I realize this is a tough-and-dirty test, I think it beats the dipstick analysis. Surely some others at BITOG are doing this. Let's hear your results.

Re: Blotter Test #59758 12/22/03 11:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
T
TallPaul Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
Well, I understand this message being moved out of the "Used Oil Analysis" forum, but I am afraid it will stagnate in this forum. Is it really that far off topic? What about the "Car and Truck Gas Engine Oil" forum? At least there it will get some responses. Thanks, Paul

Re: Blotter Test #59759 12/23/03 05:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,871
R
rugerman1 Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,871
Okey Dokie

Re: Blotter Test #59760 12/23/03 08:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
R
Robbie Alexander Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
quote:
Originally posted by TallPaul:
I searched the BITOG site and there is not much on this relatively simple test. I have been running blotter samples over the last oil change and have some interesting results (dark ring formation), but little info to interpret them. While I realize this is a tough-and-dirty test, I think it beats the dipstick analysis. Surely some others at BITOG are doing this. Let's hear your results.

Are you talking about watching the oil soak into paper and looking at the fall-out debris?
Tell us or post pics if you can what they look like, or if you can't post like me, then you can e-mail me and I'll try to help.

You are suppose to use special paper in the lab. I use the back of a business card.
I think you are suppose to hold this ... but I lay mine down.
Do one of a VIRGIN, and see what the best looks like.
I like to do one every 2-4K.

There are svereal things they can point to, like fuel, etc. I would do a search on the net for Blotter Oil Test or something like it... there are places with photos...

What I look for is to make sure I still have oil, even if it's darker, that is in a outer ring, and I don't let the ring get tooo small. I make sure the outer ring stays a good distance away from any inner one... You don't want to have the inner ring get dark or black, I like to still see I guess I'd call it rings within rings and lines that fan out like the sun... I don't know how to explain it. I have cards of good oil and Bad oil if you want me to e-mail them.

Also, If you do this on a regular oil, and you develop excessive say SI or Aluminum or Copper or some other problem... YOU can see it in the oil test. You can see the COLORS change, ie from the norm. It will be different than normal, believe me... do this for awhile and note youe lab results, and see if you can spot (even if it's after) where the blotter shows you "somethings going on"

Re: Blotter Test #59761 12/23/03 10:22 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 392
C
cangreylegend Offline
Offline
C
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 392
Didn't do this in chemistry class to separate components of a solution?

Re: Blotter Test #59762 12/23/03 10:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
T
TallPaul Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
Wow, great response Robbie. Thanks.

I'm letting a couple hot drops drip off the dipstick onto white file cards and watching the results. Only started doing this last oil change. I photographed several of the blots and should have e-mailable results in about a week (not sure how to post on this site). Also I am interested in seeing your blotter examples.

I am not trying to be all that scientific and wasn't planning on UOA's (just figured it such a simple test would be worth doing for monitoring), but maybe this will lead me there.

Virgin oil gives a nice clear light colored blot. After switching my pickup from Valvoline Durablend to Maxlife I did a blotter at 400 miles and it had a light ring around the middle that was very similar to the 950-mile blot from my wifes van which has Durablend.

At 1600 miles the ring is getting pretty dark but the surrounding oil is still pretty light colored and clean. At 1800 miles the ring is closing in on the center and the outer part is darker, similar to wife's van at 2000 miles, but she has only a very faint ring.

So my conclusion was that the Maxlife is cleaning out the engine, which has 105,000 miles. On this engine, shortly after I bought the truck at 58,000 miles, we found a half sludged oil pickup screen. I was pretty much running Durablend until this last change. I am going to try the Maxlife in the van and see if the ring forms to verify if it is Maxlife cleaning or that the pickup just has a dirty engine.

Re: Blotter Test #59763 12/24/03 09:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
T
TallPaul Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
Oh yeah, thank you Rugerman1.

Re: Blotter Test #59764 12/24/03 01:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
R
Robbie Alexander Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
quote:
Originally posted by TallPaul:
Wow, great response Robbie. Thanks.

I'm letting a couple hot drops drip off the dipstick onto white file cards and watching the results. Only started doing this last oil change. I photographed several of the blots and should have e-mailable results in about a week (-*-*
Try SCANNER if you have one.
Write the milage and Oil miles on the card.
WATCH, WATCH, WATCH


(just figured it such a simple test would be worth doing for monitoring
-----
I agree, least every 4K or so...
The thing is to watch for something OUT of the Norm.


Virgin oil gives a nice clear light colored blot.
---
depending on the oil... MINE you have to almost hold to the light to see... and it's LARGE


After switching my pickup from Valvoline Durablend to Maxlife I did a blotter at 400 miles and it had a light ring around the middle that was very similar to the 950-mile blot from my wifes van which has Durablend.
----
Should take longer...
Mine usually just slightly darkens all over
and keeps darkening,
then the fall-out later on, a little here and there


At 1600 miles the ring is getting pretty dark but the surrounding oil is still pretty light colored and clean. At 1800 miles the ring is closing in on the center and the outer part is darker, similar to wife's van at 2000 miles, but she has only a very faint ring.
-----
this ring you can see through? kinda like a light cloud?


So my conclusion was that the Maxlife is cleaning out the engine, which has 105,000 miles. On this engine, shortly after I bought the truck at 58,000 miles, we found a half sludged oil pickup screen. I was pretty much running Durablend until this last change. I am going to try the Maxlife in the van and see if the ring forms to verify if it is Maxlife cleaning or that the pickup just has a dirty engine.

The main thing is to keep the outer layer large
at least fairly light and clean looking

Re: Blotter Test #59765 12/25/03 09:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
T
TallPaul Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
quote:
Originally posted by Robbie Alexander:
[QUOTE]The main thing is to keep the outer layer large at least fairly light and clean looking

Thanks, So a ring is not a problem, but I would think if it is closing in it is not so good. Also, by the time the ring is filling in the outer part is getting somewhat darker. If I drain off a quart and put a clean quart in, the outer circle will get much cleaner looking. Anyway, I think that the comparisons over time should be very interesting.

Re: Blotter Test #59766 12/24/03 11:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,101
S
SHOZ Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,101
I do this with my ATX and PS fluid to see when it needs changing. Very dramatic differnce here when they get dirty.

Re: Blotter Test #59767 12/25/03 12:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 450
P
palmerwmd Offline
Offline
P
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 450
I would love to see a complete formal write-up perhaps even with pictures on this method.

Fred... [Smile]

Re: Blotter Test #59768 12/25/03 01:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
R
Robbie Alexander Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
quote:
Originally posted by SHOZ:
I do this with my ATX and PS fluid to see when it needs changing. Very dramatic differnce here when they get dirty.

IMO it still works somewhat with my PS fluid but it is not the same. The PS fluid will not IMO darken as much as the oil before it gets bad or needs to be changed.

Re: Blotter Test #59769 12/25/03 02:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,101
S
SHOZ Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,101
When I got my '93 SHO the PS fluid looked as black as coffee. It took a lot of new fluid to get it clean. Once clean I flushed it out and used Amsoil ATX fluid. This has stayed clean for over 3 years now. The ATX tranny fluid though will definately show the signs of degeradation.

Re: Blotter Test #59770 12/25/03 03:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
R
Robbie Alexander Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
quote:
Originally posted by SHOZ:
-*-* The ATX tranny fluid though will definately show the signs of degeradation.

what do you mean>? exactly how>???
I am seeing I guess the early stages of a PS ready to die. It has begun to whine, even with a recent flush... 396K-miles I don't wanna replace the rack too, but thats what I am told you HAVE to do. If it is the pump, why not just replace that. If the Amsoil fluid will help as per som one else with a Toyota, I'm game.

But it has been MY experience with the PS fluid... that it still looks fair and somewhat clean when I call it DIRTY and drain (usually about 2 years 100-140K, maybe too long)

Re: Blotter Test #59771 12/25/03 05:36 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,448
J
JohnBrowning Offline
Offline
J
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,448
Robbie I have a 1986 4Runner. Te pump when bad in 1996. I put one from the junk yard on and I have been fine! THeir is no reason to replace a steering gear unless it is bad.

I am sure Auto-Rx would do a good job of flushing the system out. I am preety sure that 131 and LC would work as well. I refilled a Toyota P/S system one time with MMO after repairing a hose while out four wheeling. I had intended to drain and replace the fluid with ATF but forgott to. I did not remember that MMO was in their until the pump started to fail over 3 years latter. This was my daily driver. When I replace the the pump I refilled with atf and have had no problems. My fluid never did look dirty and nothing else in the system has sufferered.

I would definately try flushing the system first. If it is not the bearing on the pump it normaly works well. Most pumps are replaced because the flow control valve plugs up. Flushing will normaly take care of a flow control valve. You might also get the rebuild kit from Toyota for your pump!

Re: Blotter Test #59772 12/25/03 10:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
T
TallPaul Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
Whoops Robbie, I missed the other comments yesterday, so here goes: No scanner, this is film negatives, but Photoworks (formerly Seattle Flim Works puts them on the computer for me). I am doing blotters like a madman--about 8 in 1800 miles. Wife thinks I am crazy. Maybe so, but it fits in with "WATCH, WATCH, WATCH." Yeah I also write the miles on the card with a key card telling what oil (or mixture) I used.

After changing out the 1800-mile oil and filter that had the closing in black ring, I ran it five minutes and did a blotter. Amazing, there is a distinct but faint ring.

Guess I should mention the 1800-mile oil started as 5w30 Maxlife then, to improve oil pressure (36 psi hot at 2000) I drained off 2 qts and added 2 qts 20w50 Maxlife to simulate a 10w40 and got 43 psi, then added several ounces of Maxlife Engine Protector, followed by a 15 oz Rislone (trying to use up left over stock), and at 1000 miles I freshened up with a quart of 10w40 Maxlife, but later topped up with 1/3 qt Royal Purple 10w40. But I have since repented [Smile] and have nothing but Maxlife 10w40 in it now. [Big Grin]

Virgin Maxlife blot is very large and light, but can be seen without holding up to the light. That brings up a point. It would be good to have control over (or consistency with) the amount of oil placed on the card as then blot size would be more meaningful.

"Should take longer..." Yeah, I think this engine has had a poor service life before I got it and the Durablend apparently is not the best for cleaning an engine.

"Mine usually just slightly darkens all over
and keeps darkening," That is the case with the Aerostar on Durablend. "then the fall-out later on, a little here and there" Will keep an eye out for that.

"this ring you can see through? kinda like a light cloud?" I can see through the middle, it is grey, but the ring is dark and thin and then the oil is tan to brownish outside the ring.

Then there is the motorhome's 460 V8 in which I must have cooked the polymers in its Durablend when it idled for over an hour last July in 90s temps. Water temp gauge was at upper end of NORMAL zone. When I drained that oil it looked pretty bad. Now it has Maxlife and the black ring is there already at 250 miles.

Thanks again. Paul

[ December 26, 2003, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: TallPaul ]

Re: Blotter Test #59773 12/26/03 12:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
R
Robbie Alexander Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TallPaul:
[QB] -*-*-*
Virgin Maxlife blot is very large and light, but can be seen without holding up to the light. That brings up a point. It would be good to have control over (or consistency with) the amount of oil placed on the card as then blot size would be more meaningful.
-*-*
A:
I just let it dribble on the card at normal gravity. I get a drop I quit! I guess you can go to those sample eye-droppers, you can buy Like a 1000 for fairly cheap.


--**--**
"Mine usually just slightly darkens all over
and keeps darkening," That is the case with the Aerostar on Durablend. "then the fall-out later on, a little here and there" Will keep an eye out for that.
-
A: well mine will tend to keep a loght outer ring.. then maybe darken evenly until a ring appears... Adding additives and mixing oils will change the result of the test. To see the way a specific oil reacts, make sure it is the only oil there, and better for a couple OCI's
Then when you know what to look out for, if you want then start adding additives.
Color is not always the thing.
Supposed - "FALL-out" is not either
If you want, I can send you a compared oil with 7994 miles to one with 200 miles, and MOST people will say the 200 MILE one needs to be changed... not so.
Just compare the images you see to your UOA, and have fun!


"this ring you can see through? kinda like a light cloud?" I can see through the middle, it is grey, but the ring is dark and thin and then the oil is tan to brownish outside the ring.

Then there is the motorhome's 460 V8 in which I must have cooked the polymers in its Durablend when it idled for over an hour last July in 90s temps. Water temp gauge was at upper end of NORMAL zone. When I drained that oil it looked pretty bad. Now it has Maxlife and the black ring is there already at 250 miles.
--
Maybe you need to change the Thermostat... they are a bigger cause of failure than oil...I don't think there ever had been an oil related failure.

Re: Blotter Test #59774 12/26/03 02:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 451
D
DavoNF Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 451
I have a couple of .JPG photos of oil blots that I did, if someone wants to post them up for me. PM or email me and I'll email them over.

thanks,
Dave

Re: Blotter Test #59775 12/26/03 06:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
R
Robbie Alexander Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
quote:
Originally posted by DavoNF:
I have a couple of .JPG photos of oil blots that I did, if someone wants to post them up for me. PM or email me and I'll email them over.

thanks,
Dave

I have the same problem, no way to post mine.
I think it would be Cool to post a BLOT with every OCI.

Re: Blotter Test #59776 12/26/03 09:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
T
TallPaul Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
"I just let it dribble on the card at normal gravity. I get a drop I quit!" ---Guess I just need to practice, though I did notice some where I put a goodly amount on the card and the blot did not grow but half as large as some.

"Adding additives and mixing oils will change the result of the test. To see the way a specific oil reacts, make sure it is the only oil there, and better for a couple OCI's. Then when you know what to look out for, if you want then start adding additives." ---- Yeah, I was running a regular witches' brew there, but I promise I'll only run the 10w40 Maxlife in the pickup this time around--well maybe a pint of Rislone for the last 300 miles [Big Grin] --gotta use up that old stock. [Big Grin] Also will stick with the same oil through many OCI's as you are perfectly right, the more I hold other factors constant, the better my blotter tests will be. (Oh no, I better not tell him what I added to the Aerostar [Embarrassed] ).

"If you want, I can send you a compared oil with 7994 miles to one with 200 miles" ---- sure, go ahead and send it.

"Maybe you need to change the Thermostat... they are a bigger cause of failure than oil...I don't think there ever had been an oil related failure." ----That beast does tend to run a tad hot. Some have told me this is because the engine bay is very tight and they recommend hood vents to let off heat. Normally not a problem, but because I idled it for so long, I guess. Wouldn't hurt to check thermostat though.

I like your idea off holding these blots up to a light. You really see more and what looks somewhat dirty will, backlit, show much cleaner. Hey, I did manage to do a blot on the motorhome's supposedly cooked oil(albeit from the used oil filter) and it has the center ring but interestingly has wavy arcs in concentric circles around the ring off thin slightly darker lines. Only saw it when backlit.

Re: Blotter Test #59777 12/26/03 11:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 451
D
DavoNF Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 451
I usually take a drop off the dipstick when the oil is hot. The card then sits supported at the ends on raised flat surface, so the oil can spread out naturally. On a thickish card, this will take at least 8 hours - up to 24 hours. Once the oil has soaked in, I tape the card to a window to back light it and shoot away with my digital camera.

Now if I could only interpret what it all means. [Big Grin]

Dave

[ December 27, 2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: DavoNF ]

Re: Blotter Test #59778 12/26/03 11:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
R
Robbie Alexander Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
quote:
Originally posted by DavoNF:
-*-*
Now if I could only interpret what it all means. [Big Grin]

Dave

Same with the OUA's. I agree. We all are learning.
If I'm wrong, I am, just my guess,
and what I have been going on and seen on OUA's, but I may have wrong thinking here:

If it is not solid, much better off... If there are chunks, not too good. The cleaner the outside ring, the better. The Darker the inside ring, the worse. The more the center ring closes and or expands, the worse.
Ideal IMO is when you have good miles, the ring darkens but not solid, and you don't see "Fans or RAYS" all over the place, and there is a very clean even if thin, outer ring and a little dirtier next, and the filth in the center area, even with the exception of maybe a definate ring.
You will see here, different colors, ie blackish, brownish maybe greenish, yellowish, clearish, kinda like in a rainbow with one end in the center and another out... and if I place it flat without moving it, the circle is perfect, but usually I carry it in my hands awhile.

Re: Blotter Test #59779 12/27/03 12:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 451
D
DavoNF Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 451
Ok, here are two I've done recently, which will give some idea of what we are talking about.

Pic1. From my 78 Suzuki LJ81 ute.
 -

Pic2. From Ford V8 Windsor engine
 -

thanks to RavenTai [Big Grin]

[ December 27, 2003, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: DavoNF ]

Re: Blotter Test #59780 12/27/03 08:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,101
S
SHOZ Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,101
quote:
Originally posted by Robbie Alexander:
what do you mean>? exactly how>???.........
If the Amsoil fluid will help as per som one else with a Toyota, I'm game.

But it has been MY experience with the PS fluid... that it still looks fair and somewhat clean when I call it DIRTY and drain (usually about 2 years 100-140K, maybe too long)

The PS and ATX are not exposed to combustion. So any darkening of them is coming from thermo break down. My "93 had over 125K on it when I got it. The PS fluid was a black as coffee. I flushed with Mobil One ATX fluid, drove for a week and it was a black as it was originally. I then drained down the reservoir and refilled with WalMart ATX fluid. Kept doing this until it stayed clean and red, then flushing with the Mobil One again. This has stayed clean for 3 years now.

As far as the ATX tranny fluid goes, on my '97 SHO if I use dino ATX fluid it is turning dark at 15k, with synthetic it will go 30k. This is what I look for when I put a drop on a white napkin. Just the darkness of it compared to new fluid. There really is no great amount of debris in the fluids, just the amount of darkening from oxidation..

Re: Blotter Test #59781 12/27/03 10:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 718
N
Neil Womack Offline
Offline
N
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 718
I did both a blotter and a water drop test on the 10,000 mile Schaeffer's 15w-40 analysis from my VW TDI engine submitted to this forum 11/12/03.

Sorry no pictures was just tinkering.

The analysis showed fuel soot at 47, Ox at 22% and Nox at 35%.

The blotter test showed a faint ring at the outer edge of the oil and a very faint inner ring. I had to hold it up to a light to see the inner ring at all. Nothing even approaching the pictures above.


And the diameter of the blot was very similiar to the virgin comparison. Though I can't say how much oil was used for each.

The water drop test showed a significantly larger ,50%, drop when compared to virgin.

At the next analysis I will be better document the blotter and water drop tests.

Re: Blotter Test #59782 12/27/03 11:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
R
Robbie Alexander Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
quote:
Originally posted by DavoNF:
Ok, here are two I've done recently, which will give some idea of what we are talking about.
-*-*

Cant quite tell from the top, but it loks from here too solid in the center.... but yeah how the outer ring is lighter... it would be more idel like the top photo on the second- IMO, no the thing is, Is IT UN-even or did you hold it in your have or uneven surface after starting, because it needs to form a perfect circle... anything that starts to go out of perfect, Is where I have seen the oil degraded... no If you moved it and know you say the oil go off of wher you placed it, then okay...
All in all, I usually dont see my rings that dark, they are lighter but are like this photo more often... aslo when I get good runs, the outer ring stays clearish!

Re: Blotter Test #59783 12/27/03 11:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
R
Robbie Alexander Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
quote:
Originally posted by Neil Womack:
-*-*
The water drop test showed a significantly larger ,50%, drop when compared to virgin.

At the next analysis I will be better document the blotter and water drop tests.

with the water, my understanding is that as long as it BEADS. I do the Blotter because of less mess. and To me it;s easier and you can keep it and also you can compare to others if you want to keep one. I use to have a bag full of them, no longer.
Now, I think the blotter is subjective in a way, but ONCE you learn YOUR truck and oil, YOU WILL KNOW if something is different. IMO, it's just a tool to be used along with the UOA's

Re: Blotter Test #59784 12/28/03 12:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 451
D
DavoNF Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 451
I posted those pictures so everybody would know what we are talking about, but they are not good examples, as both oils from both vehicles had a dose of molybdenum di-sulphide additive, which really darkens the oil.

If you look closely at the bottom one, you will see the "rays" emanating from the central corona, which is typical of water contamination.

Robbie's suggestion of a blotter test photo with a UOA is a good one.


Dave

Re: Blotter Test #59785 12/28/03 01:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
R
Robbie Alexander Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
quote:
Originally posted by DavoNF:
-*-*-*-*
Robbie's suggestion of a blotter test photo with a UOA is a good one.
Dave

If I had a way of posting them, I would have included one on every one of mine. As I think it is an AID in doing UOA's.

It is IMO a way the average JOE can see from among the group here, without spending a lot of $$$, what "It" is suppose to look like when the UOA's look great / average / fair / poor... with Water issues/ fuel/ excessive wear/ glycol/ whatever... If we were able to see hundreds of these with every UOA, then maybe we don't HAVE to wait to see the REPORT before we DECIDE to do a drain. Sometimes like in my case, we have to learn about these things through the SCHOOL of HARD KNOCKS.

Re: Blotter Test #59786 12/28/03 08:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,711
L
labman Offline
Offline
L
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,711
I think I am going to try this. As I just posted on the one oil filter thread, 40 micron particles are about the same as 400 grit sandpaper.

Re: Blotter Test #59787 12/29/03 06:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
R
Robbie Alexander Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,533
quote:
Originally posted by labman:
I think I am going to try this. As I just posted on the one oil filter thread, 40 micron particles are about the same as 400 grit sandpaper.

I think in time, if there were more people here posting pics, that seeing enough good pics and bad pics, and the resons why they were bad (ie history) that a lot more people will feel better about doing an extended drain when the time presents itself.
By no means do I think this is fool proof, and there can be a lot of subjective decisions, but when you get use to SEEing how YOUR sample looks on paper, the more willing, at least for me, I am to push the oil... I.e. I have never seen the oil changing to mean a lie. On the other hand, when one changed brands, and adds different oil to their sump, the new brew's colors and time and so on, do change.
Best thing, find a good brew and stick with it if you are doing UOA's only once and awhile, and use this as the back-up.
It's saved me several times, and the UOA's confirmed it, and a lab tech pin pointed the problem... All for a little time, and a few $$$ for a lab test.

Re: Blotter Test #59788 01/26/05 10:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,602
M
Motorbike Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,602
This is a good topic . I have been dabbling in this blotter stuff thanks to Paul .

It's cheap fun .

Paul , do you have any updates for us like what happens to the dispersancy when additives are used in the oil or blending different brand oils vs a known series of blotters using one formulated oil ?

Re: Blotter Test #59789 01/27/05 10:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
T
TallPaul Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
Mostly what is apparent is that the blotters were very light with 5w30 Durablend in the Aerostar, darkened up quite a bit with the switch to Maxlife 10w30, and then are getting darker a whole lot faster yet with the Synpower 10w30 I am currently running (there is a little redline too--maybe 6 oz).

The pickup truck blotters started on Maxlife. When I put a quart Redline at the end of an OCI for 500 miles it did not get significantly darker. But the very next OCI was Durablend 15w40 SJ and they darkened up very quick. Was it followup to the Redline? Blotters after that were Auto Rx treatment and rinse cycles. Can't remember the exact progression, but some are pretty dirty.

Not sure what it all means. Assume the Maxlife cleans better than Durablend and the Redline does some cleaning too.

Re: Blotter Test #59790 01/29/05 03:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 885
Z
ZR2RANDO Offline
Offline
Z
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 885
Cool! you're doing "thin film chromatography", or "thin layer chromatography" depends on where you went to school I guess...
Try hanging vertical strips that are suspended with the end dipped in the oil (like a small tuna/sardine can, when it runs up the strips the various componants will separate into distinct bars...it makes it easy to compare with each sample. Cool, good idea!

Re: Blotter Test #59791 02/27/05 01:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,871
R
rugerman1 Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,871
Anyone have experience with this?

ONE-DROP® Intelligent Preventative Maintenance Systemtm

Gasoline Engine Oil Test
 -

Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) Test
 -

Differential (F&R), Manual Transmission & Transfer Case Test
 -

Re: Blotter Test #59792 02/27/05 10:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,263
Bryanccfshr Offline
Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,263
Is there anything special about this chromatograph paper? I have been toying with this method on business cards. It's interesting.

Re: Blotter Test #59793 02/27/05 11:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
T
TallPaul Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:
Is there anything special about this chromatograph paper? I have been toying with this method on business cards. It's interesting.

Yeah, the ONE DROP oil blots look weird. I never get a hard line around the outside, only around the inner circle.

Backlighting is a good way to view them though.

Re: Blotter Test #59794 02/27/05 11:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,263
Bryanccfshr Offline
Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,263
Yeah, On business cards I only have one seperation ring. None have been run remotely near dirty according to some of the samples I have seen here.

Re: Blotter Test #59795 02/28/05 12:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
T
TallPaul Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,132
I have probably 8 or 10 sets of blotters in pdf files (one per set; some while running Auto Rx too) and a couple have oil analysis data too. If anybody has time to post them viewable on this thread, I will send them. Just PM me with an email address. It might help in the interpretation.

Re: Blotter Test #59796 02/28/05 02:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,378
1
1sttruck Offline
Offline
1
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,378
Below are some links, I'll guess most are familiar to those doing blotter tests. The 'patch test' also looks interesting. Cheap 10x eyepieces can be had from broken binoculars, using the 25mm or so eyepieces. May need to perhaps file down the end of the eyepiece to create more working distance. A 10x Hastings triplet is perhaps the handiest eyepiece to use in the field.

http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=348&relatedbookgroup=OilAnalysis

http://www.uscg.mil/systems/gse/P2OA.2-1-4.htm

http://www.noria.com/secure/product_detail.asp?catalogid=25

http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=648&relatedbookgroup=OilAnalysis

Re: Blotter Test #59797 03/30/05 08:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 230
'
'00obw Offline
Offline
'
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 230
Would be nice if all those who do UOA's would also perform a blotter test and post pics with their UOA's. Might help to learn to read a blotter test. Just an idea.

Re: Blotter Test #59798 03/31/05 03:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 189
O
OffOrWFO Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 189
Where is a good place to buy blotter paper? I tried the one phone number and got no answer. I've used index cards in the past, but even oil from a bad UOA with no TBN left didn't show much on the cards [I dont know]
Thanks

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™