Ford Warranty and disintegrating drainback valves

[k1rod]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: k1rod
Ford had apparently experienced oil starvation engine failures resulting from the disintegrating of anti drainback valves in some aftermarket filters. Ford technicians were advised to look for small bits of rubber material (usually red in color) in the engine. If the telltale rubber bits are found, the warranty claim is denied.
Can you post a link to this info? I've read of a diesel manufacturer (Cummins, I think?) who put out a TSB worded almost exactly like this and it concerned a certain FRAM orange filter, used in Dodge trucks, that was apparently re-designed because of it. I've never heard of any info like this coming from Ford.


Here is one I found..

20780 1997-2009 MULTIPLE VEHICLE - 4.6L/5.4L - ENGINE TICKING AND/OR RATTLE NOISE
MULTIPLE VEHICLE LINES WITH 4.6L OR 5.4L ENGINE MAY EXPERIENCE AN ENGINE TICKING OR RATTLE NOISE THAT SOUNDS LIKE A STUCK TAPPET (HLA). THIS MAY BE DUE TO THE DETERIORATION OF AN AFTERMARKET OIL FILTER. VEHICLES WITH THIS CONDITION HAVE LOW OIL PRESSURE AT ONE CYLINDER HEAD ONLY, WHILE MAIN PRESSURES ARE NORMAL. DISLODGED MATERIAL FROM THE AFTERMARKET OIL FILTER BLOCKS THE CAM CAP OIL PASSAGE, EITHER AT CYLINDER #4 (RIGHT BANK REAR) OR CYLINDER #5 (LEFT BANK FRONT).FOR VCT EQUIPPED ENGINES, INSPECT THE VCT VALVE BODY AND THE OIL PASSAGES UNDER THE FIRST CAM CAP. FORD RECOMMENDS THE USE OF FORD APPROVED FILTERS ONLY. DAMAGE TO ENGINES CAUSED BY AFTERMARKET OIL FILTERS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY.
EFFECTIVE DATE: 05/25/2009

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: k1rod
I'm suspecting Fram may have been the culprit brand with this issue and this filter has a red anti drainback valve.

1. First you have no proof to suspect Fram
2. second GOOD NEWS!! Now according to the Magnusson Moss Warrant Act the Ford Motor Company has to provide all Ford customers with FREE oil filters if they specify their own brand only.

Now go tell Ford that and see what they say.....

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Interesting. But if they set a standard, they should at least provide a list of acceptable filters, or a list of UNacceptable filters. Simply stating "meets a standard" is no standard at all.


Exactly....and they never will.

 

[Doog]

BTW, does anyone know where the Ford Motorcraft oil filter manufacturing plant is located?

 

[k1rod]

And here is another one:

Article #08-A-2007
Engine Damage / Non-Ford Oil Filters - All Model Years, All Vehicles
A review of warranty claims indicates that engine damage caused by defective non-Ford oil filters is being claimed under Ford warranty.

The check valves in some non-Ford filters disintegrate causing small rubber debris (frequently red color) to migrate into the engine's oil passages where they restrict flow. This restriction causes components (such as the variable cam timing phaser) to fail, and causes engine knocking / ticking /rattles.

Please reference:

SSM #18921 (Published: 11/03/05)
SSM #19642 (Published: 03/01/07)
TSB #06-19-08
Repair of engine damage caused by defective non-Ford oil filters is not covered per Section 3 of the Warranty & Policy Manual.

Category: Powertrain – Engine
Do: Look for bits of rubber (frequently red color) when repairing damaged engines.
Don't: Submit a warranty claim for damage caused by defective non-Ford oil filters.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Interesting. But if they set a standard, they should at least provide a list of acceptable filters, or a list of UNacceptable filters. Simply stating "meets a standard" is no standard at all.


Exactly....and they never will.


You can't say that a certain, specific filter is acceptable or unacceptable for several reasons. One, you set yourself up for possible litigation. Two, filter companies change suppliers on a whim and it would be impossible to keep track of. Case in point: The house-branded Microgard used to be a repainted Fram orange can, now it's an E-core.

 

[dparm]

This is pretty terrifying, if I'm honest. Sort of makes me glad there's only one filter available for my car.

Then again, why should Ford shell out $5k+ because of a lousy filter design or poor QC?


Originally Posted By: k1rod
And here is another one:

Article #08-A-2007
Engine Damage / Non-Ford Oil Filters - All Model Years, All Vehicles
A review of warranty claims indicates that engine damage caused by defective non-Ford oil filters is being claimed under Ford warranty.

The check valves in some non-Ford filters disintegrate causing small rubber debris (frequently red color) to migrate into the engine's oil passages where they restrict flow. This restriction causes components (such as the variable cam timing phaser) to fail, and causes engine knocking / ticking /rattles.

Please reference:

SSM #18921 (Published: 11/03/05)
SSM #19642 (Published: 03/01/07)
TSB #06-19-08
Repair of engine damage caused by defective non-Ford oil filters is not covered per Section 3 of the Warranty & Policy Manual.

Category: Powertrain – Engine
Do: Look for bits of rubber (frequently red color) when repairing damaged engines.
Don't: Submit a warranty claim for damage caused by defective non-Ford oil filters.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: Doog
GOOD NEWS!! Now according to the Magnusson Moss Warrant Act the Ford Motor Company has to provide all Ford customers with FREE oil filters if they specify their own brand only.

(not really!)

Ford never said you had to use one for your warranty to be valid, only that they recommend their approved filters only...

Originally Posted By: Ford TSB 20780
FORD RECOMMENDS THE USE OF FORD APPROVED FILTERS ONLY. DAMAGE TO ENGINES CAUSED BY AFTERMARKET OIL FILTERS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY.


They are well within their rights as a manufacturer to recommend Motorcraft parts and to not warranty damages caused by an oil filter whose ADBV disintegrated and blocked oil passages.

The oil filter company should be liable for the damages, however.

 

[rrounds]

If a filter caused the damage in the engine(like in the pic's), small claims court will take care of it if it ever got that far.

 

[Fission]

Originally Posted By: k1rod
I'm suspecting Fram may have been the culprit brand with this issue and this filter has a red anti drainback valve.

Excellent detective work, Sherlock. What Google search turned up this solid piece of evidence?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Yep, use Motorcraft. You don't have to know anything. You don't have to understand anything. By all means, don't investigate anything for yourself. Don't find that there may be BETTER filters than MC. Just follow the herd.

ROFL @ Jim!

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Interesting. But if they set a standard, they should at least provide a list of acceptable filters, or a list of UNacceptable filters. Simply stating "meets a standard" is no standard at all.


It does not work that way. It is not Ford or any other vehicle manufacturer problem to certify or list what aftermarket filters meet their standard. It is the aftermarket filter makers responsibility to list or state they meet the vehicle makers specs.

Regardless, if you have a aftermarket filter problem, your warranty redress is through that aftermarket filter maker anyway.

 

[dnewton3]

Once again we trod into the abyss if ignorance of how warranty claims work.

Warranties are there to protect both the consumer and the OEM. You all should first read up on the M/M Act at the FTC website. Start here ...
http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus01-businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law
Because warranty claims are predominantly about the burden of proof.

If one chooses to use a "recommended" product, then the burden of proof is upon the OEM. If you choose to use an alternative, then the burden is upon you.

So if you choose an aftermarket alternative to Ford's preferred and reccommended M/C filters, then the burden of proof shifts from Ford/MC to the aftermarket alternative. And frankly, any decent quality filter maker such as Puro, Wix, Fram, Amsoil, Bosch, etc probably has mounds of data to back up their recommended filters too.

I don't doubt that Ford would try to deny warranty, but it would greatly depend upon what aftermarket alternative they were up against. If it was an el-cheapo no-name filter brand, they would likely pursue it with vigor. If it was a P1 or M1 or BD+ filter, I doubt they'd put a lot of effort into it. And, it's simply easy for Ford to say to not file a warranty claim, but that does not exclude them from the responsibility to respond to such a claim. It is up to the consumer to push for his rights to be enforced and respected.

This probably comes to our attention because not everyone on this green/blue orb is a BITOGer, and therefore they do not obsess over their oil changes. Some even take their vehicles to really inexpensive quickie-change lube joints, and those places might occasionally use an inferior product sourced from some third-world market. And so those filters might just cause the damage in our thread topic here.

Besides, I SERIOUSLY doubt a good quality aftermarket filter employed by a BITOGer resulted in "little red bits" strewn throughout the engine lube galleys.


Ironic, is it not, that OEMs in any industry presume the worst of alternatives, but then profess how their manure does not emit odor? Like Ford never made a lemon, or GM never had a bad design, or Toyota never sold a sludger.
Vehicle OEMs blame the lube, the filter, the tires and the fuel.
Gun makers blame the other folks ammo and the sights.
Sewing machine makers blame the thread bobbins and cloth ...


I'm not saying Ford is wrong to blame an inferior filter degradation for plugging oil pathways; if that is the true root cause then it's a good reason to deny coverage. But it's a HUGE leap of unsubstantiated faith to simply say ALL aftermarket filters are suspect, and all warranty should be denied as a blanket statement.

 

[RF Overlord]

DN3, this is one time when I beg to differ. I have no problem with Ford stating that if you use their recommended filter they will honour a warranty claim without hassle, but if you choose to use something else, the claim can be denied if that other part caused the failure.

I don't know all the exact numbers, but I believe warranty claims amount to a huge dollar and I understand Ford (or anyone else's) desire to reduce that figure.

I also understand people's desire to use the "best" product on their car, but if they expect to have Ford cough up the cash for repair under warranty, is it REALLY that big an issue to use the factory-recommended part?

 

[dparm]

Ford never says they'll honor a claim with zero-hassle. Anything of that magnitude will involve a bunch of people checking it out and signing off on it. We're not talking about something trivial.

 

[RF Overlord]

When I said "without hassle", I meant that they won't automatically deny coverage and make you fight for it. I appreciate that they would have to have their own people look at it...

 

[edwardh1]

outboard motor makers blame
salt water
owner abuse
bad gas

 

[SHOZ]

The disintegrating filter was probably some cheap copy and one of the most copied is the Motorcraft filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
The disintegrating filter was probably some cheap copy and one of the most copied is the Motorcraft filter.


That's what I was thinking to ... counterfeit garbage from China.

 

[morris]

an engine causes a drain back valve to come apart? i think the trouble is something wrong withe the engine. i have had more different chrysler engines than i can count, and NEVER had any drain back valves make bits of check valves.