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#1140441 - 04/30/08 09:56 AM TBN and Noack Volatility question
FrankN4 Offline

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1093
Loc: Kentucky
If you found an oil whose specs you really liked but it had a low TBN (8) and a high Noack Volatility (8.7) would that just mean you changed the oil more often or would there be other problems. The cSt's were geat, VI great, pour point great, etc.

Thanks to all
Actually, I never was as good as I used to be.

#1140482 - 04/30/08 11:11 AM Re: TBN and Noack Volatility question [Re: FrankN4]
TallPaul Offline

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 13104
Loc: By Detroit
Are you looking at a passenger car oil or a heavy duty oil?

TBN of 8 is reasonable for passenger car oil

NOACK of 8.7 is very good.

For passenger car or light truck I would think this oil can run min 5000 mile OCIs. Need to know vehicle and driving types (short trip, long trip, towing, miles on engine, etc).
The masses, thirsting for convenience, unwittingly dig the grave of the automobile as we knew it. The industry already has one foot in that grave.

#1140490 - 04/30/08 11:25 AM Re: TBN and Noack Volatility question [Re: TallPaul]
Gary Allan Offline

Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
Yeah, Frank. Don't hold back now. Give us the full story here. None of this sprinkling crumbs around Give it to us, baby - ah-ha ah-ha

#1140690 - 04/30/08 03:34 PM Re: TBN and Noack Volatility question [Re: Gary Allan]
FrankN4 Offline

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1093
Loc: Kentucky

I have a 2008 Chevrolet Silverado short bed pickup. It has a 4.3L V6 engine and 4 speed automatic. It has all the bells, whistles, and sound systems, and will be used as a family car but just happens to be a pickup because I live way out in the country at my retirement home. The truck will go to town and back about 4 times a week, 9 miles round trip. It will make an occassional trip to Lowe's for seed, fertilizer, treated timbers for ground effects and that sort of stuff. Round trip of 43 miles.

It will make two trips a year to Myrtle Beach SC,(700 miles RT) two trips a year to Fredericksburg, VA,(950 miles RT) 3 or 4 trips a year to Cherokee, NC,(300 miles RT) loaded with an in bed camper(I quit towing), about 4 trips a year to Blacksburg, VA(502 miles RT) and about 4 trips a year to Lexington, KY(172 miles RT)

The engine will never exceed 3000 RPM. It will spend the majority of its life between 1500 and 2200 RPM. It will get Shell or Chevron 89 octane gasoline with no alcohol as long as that is available.

The truck now has 276 total miles. At 1000 miles I will change the oil, oil filter, air filter, transmission fluid and filter, I will drain the differential and fill with a synthetic EP 75W-110 fluid. The oil and filter will get changed between 3000 and 4000 miles. Air filter will get changed every 6,000 miles, fuel filter about every 10,000 miles, transmission fluid and filter and the differential every 25,000 miles.

The truck this one is replacing is a 1986 Toyota. It was maintained the same way except oil and filter was exactly 3000 miles. It is now just a little shy of 300,000 miles. It has no mechanical noise, doesen't use a drop of oil between changes, and gets 26-28 MPG. It has had only 20W-50, 5W-50, and 15W-50 synthetic oil.

I want the Silverado to take me all the way to Purgatory. The oils I am considering are Mobil 1 0W-40 Eurpoean with TBN of 11.3 and Noack of 6.2, Amsoil 5W-40 European with TBN of 8.0 and Noack of 8.7, Amsoil 10W-30 ATM with TBN of 12.2 and noack of 5.4, and good ole Mobil 1 15W-50 with TBN of 11.7 and Noack of 6.4.

Since 1990 I have used only Mobil 1 15W-50 in an 86 toyota 4 cyl, 88 VW with 4 cyl engine, 90 Dodge with 4 cyl engine, 94 Chevrolet Celebrity with a V6 engine, 99 Chevrolet Cavalier with 4 cyl engine(I still use this car daily with 200,000+ miles)99 Kia Rio with 4 cyl engine(daughter's college car) The worse of the lot was the Dodge which had the head crack at the intake manifold at about 120,000 miles.

I have learned so much from this forum in the last few days. I have about 51 years experience with motorcycles and cars. I have an uncle, by marriage, that was a chemical engineer with the Ashland Oil and Refinign company near Kenova, WV. I have and do speak with an engineer for an American automobile company that is working on a project for high speed diesel engines. From what I have learned here, from my talking with chemical engineers and mechanical engineers, and from 50 years experience, I am moved toward the Amsoil 5W-40 European or the Mobil 1 0W-40 Eurppean with the Amsoil 10W-30 ATM coming up second. If the Amsoil had a higher TBN and a lower Noack, I would order it this evening.

I want to learn as much as I can as I find this fascinating.

By the way, my hobbies are mountain stream trout fishing and changing oil. I don't bowl, golf, go to ball games or spend money on other recreational activities :^)

Thanks to all
Actually, I never was as good as I used to be.

#1140783 - 04/30/08 04:57 PM Re: TBN and Noack Volatility question [Re: FrankN4]

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2338
Loc: Magnolia, TX
If it were my chariot to Purgatory, I think the AMSOIL ATM would grease the skids for you nicely! The AMSOIL warranty would be nice to fall back on if you do have any oil related problems too.
2013 Toyota Tundra DC 4X4 5.7L FFV
2012 Toyota 4Runner 2WD SR5
2004 Honda S2000

#1140820 - 04/30/08 05:37 PM Re: TBN and Noack Volatility question [Re: INDYMAC]
Gary Allan Offline

Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
That's some intense maintenance schedule you have there. It should easily carry you to the great beyond ..camper included.

#1140903 - 04/30/08 07:01 PM Re: TBN and Noack Volatility question [Re: FrankN4]
Doug Hillary Offline

Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5102
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
FrankN4 - As you have had a good user experience with M1 products you should consider using M1 TDT 5w-40 or Delvac 1 5w-40 - both will satisfy your TBN or Noack Volatility needs

M1 0w-40 is of the same ilk and has an excellent engine manufacturer and end user reputation

Edited by Doug Hillary (04/30/08 07:02 PM)

#1141149 - 05/01/08 12:17 AM Re: TBN and Noack Volatility question [Re: Doug Hillary]
bruce381 Offline

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 3327
Loc: Millbrae, CA
what Doug says

#1141236 - 05/01/08 06:50 AM Re: TBN and Noack Volatility question [Re: bruce381]
TallPaul Offline

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 13104
Loc: By Detroit
I won't mess with what Bruce and Doug say on the motor oil. If Bruce told me a certain oil to run, I'd run it.

As for the tranny and diffy, I'd run Redline. With Redline you can go longer on the tranny change interval, probably what the book says, but could do partial changes more often with filter change. In my opinion, Redline is the way to make an auto tranny go the distance. It won't burn. It will take all the abuse you can give it.

Does your truck have a towing selector? If it doesn't lock out OD, it should stiffen the shifting, which usually is a good thing for reduced tranny wear as soft shifting is usually acheived by slippage.

Redline also makes power steering fluid.

Go Mobil 1 synthetic for grease.

#1141617 - 05/01/08 02:30 PM Re: TBN and Noack Volatility question [Re: TallPaul]
addyguy Offline

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 14027
Loc: Canada
I'm with INDYMAC - I'd go with the ATM 10W-30. For me it seems to be about the best all-round 10W-30 you can get...GM is really, really 'fussy' about people not using ANYTHING other than 30-weights in their engines, so I'd do that. I know you've had a lot of success with non-spec oils, but I still think the ATM would meet all your needs and keep you closer to the best MPG's for that vehicle....
2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 100k miles.
Castrol GTX 5W-30; MPH 9688 filter.