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Ford Unveils Mercon LV

Posted By: The Critic

Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/08/08 11:16 PM

"Ford Motor Co. last week gave the lubricants industry its first look at a new automatic transmission fluid specification. Mercon LV is intended to be a fill-for-life fluid for the automaker's emerging transmission technologies, explained Ford Mercon Committee Chairman Chintan Ved. The automaker also has streamlined its Mercon V licensing program in ways that will greatly cut costs for transmission fluid branders and re-branders.

Ved unveiled the new trademarked fluid and described the licensing program changes during the SAE World Congress in Detroit, at the April 17 meeting of SAE Technical Committee 3 on Transmission Fluids and Gear Oils. He reminded listeners that Ford's older Mercon spec has been replaced with Mercon V, and any remaining Mercon licenses will expire by June 30. Current and older models that recommend Mercon should be serviced with licensed Mercon V products now.

Mercon LV is something else -- a forward-looking fluid designed to deliver key performance benefits for 2008 models and beyond, he said. It is intended to coexist with Mercon V going forward, and the two are not interchangeable.

Mercon LV, Ved explained last week in an interview with Lube Report, offers stable frictional performance, potential fuel economy benefits, improved anti-shudder performance and anti-foaming/aeration performance, and greater oxidation stability in step-type transmissions.

Licensing for Mercon LV -- the LV stands for "low viscosity," not 55 -- begins July 1, and the fluid will be used as factory fill for 2008 models such as the Ford Focus when they roll off the assembly line this year. Ford wants it ready for the service-fill market at the same time.

"Drain intervals across the board with the new fluid will be 150,000 miles for passenger cars and trucks, in normal service," Ved said. Ford says Mercon LV has strong potential for increasing the severe-duty service change intervals, as well, which it will announce at a later date.

Only one additive package, made by Afton Chemical, has been approved for Mercon LV, Ved pointed out. It took some three years to validate the additive package for Ford's factory fill, and only then was it considered for service fill as well. The Afton package includes a detergent-inhibitor package and a shear-stable viscosity index improver package. Depending on the base stock used, treat levels are expected to be in the range of 11 to 14 percent.

To meet the performance demanded by Mercon LV, most products will need to be formulated with Group III oils, Ved added. "Based on Mercon LV's viscosity, shear stability and antioxidancy requirements, use of higher-end Group IIs, Group III and PAOs will be the best scenario." He said there seems to be adequate supply of Group IIIs to meet the volume needs, as the LV market develops; also, there will be less turnover of the fluid, since the transmission fill intervals will be so much longer.

Mercon LV joins Mercon V and Mercon SP as the only current Mercon products for conventionally shifted automatic transmissions. (There is also Mercon C, designed for CVTs).

"The goal with LV was to create a more robust fluid, even beyond that of Mercon V," Ved said. "We aren't yet replacing SP, which is used in our conventionally shifted five-speed and six-speed transmissions, but there is a significant amount of testing ongoing to replace SP with Mercon LV."

Due to viscosity differences, LV is not intended as a substitute for Mercon V. "Newer transmission technologies are being developed with low-viscosity fluid," he added. "It's fill-for-life, and has more stable friction properties, and will maintain the shift feel throughout the fluid's life. It also will maintain its viscosity with less than 5 percent viscosity change over the life of the fluid."

The major additive companies all hope to gain the automakers' factory-fill business, and Laurie Strasser, marketing manager at Afton Chemical in Richmond, Va., said her company was gratified that its package got the nod from Ford. "We're blessed with an excellent research team, who put forth solid technology, considerable persistence and hard work," she said.

The key, as with all emerging technologies, was to provide measurable improvements in multiple areas. "Every OEM is looking to boost fuel economy by optimizing the transfer of power along the complete drivetrain," she said. "Another key demand is for greater friction stability. We've seen this emphasized with General Motors' Dexron VI fluid, with the JASO specification in Japan, and now Ford's Mercon LV. The OEMs want consistent friction performance -- shift feel -- throughout the life of the product, and for the product to have a longer life as well."

Automakers around the globe have launched low-viscosity fluids, Strasser stated, but each is unique, and not always interchangeable the way Ford's Mercon and GM's Dexron III were. "GM's Dexron VI and Toyota's low-viscosity WS and Ford's Mercon LV are not currently compatible, because the design criteria and frictional requirements are different. The arena of transmission fluids is not converging," she told Lube Report. "These are different fluids with different design characteristics.

"We in North America have been used to having 60 percent of the market satisfied with a single transmission fluid, Dexron/Mercon. That isn't so any more. Now there's a new paradigm, with each of the OEMs having unique, stand-along fluids."

Strasser noted that the base stock needed for the new LV specification is mostly going to be a Group III, with its better thermal and oxidative properties. Most Group III base stock suppliers will be able to meet the specification, she added. "Ford is a global company and will want to be assured of supply for its factories and dealers worldwide."

Even as it adds this new specification, Ford is trying to wean users away from using its old Mercon product, and Ved reiterated that Mercon V is the proper fluid now for all 2007 and earlier models. No new Mercon licenses have been issued since last July, and Ford hopes to see the product fade from the marketplace. That includes issuing service bulletins to all dealers reminding them to use Mercon V only.

"We're tightening the specs and are taking steps -- such as field monitoring -- to make sure that what fluid goes into the box is identical or as nearly identical as possible to what we use as factory fill, mostly Mercon V," Ved said. "Transmission fluid is the blood of the transmission. New systems always are developed with the fluid in mind, with how they'll interact. ATF compatibility with various components, like elastomers, composites, friction materials, gears, bearings, etc., is very critical to transmission performance, and hence we don't want the wrong fluid going in Ford transmissions."

In speaking to the SAE Technical Committee 3 meeting, Ved also had good news for lubricant marketers regarding Mercon V. Three additive packages -- one each from Afton Chemical, Infineum and Lubrizol -- have been approved for Mercon V.

The test requirement for Mercon V licensing and renewals also has been optimized, resulting in program costs being reduced for the applicants. Mu-V characterization (anti-shudder) and the GM cycling test (oxidation) have been dropped, as Ford believes those performance parameters are adequately demonstrated in other tests.

New licensees also can avoid performing two friction-durability tests for Mercon V when they begin initial production, and those who renew will not have to repeat certain annual tests for antifoam, elastomer compatibility, wear and oxidation properties.

A few new bench test parameters, most of them already part of the aluminum beaker oxidation test, have been added to the Mercon V regime, but overall these changes mean that original formulator costs have been reduced by $40,000, and reblend test programs will also avoid some $20,000 in cost.

Ved's Mercon Committee has approval authority for all its fluids; licensing paperwork and administration are handled through its program coordinator, Southwest Research Institute. For information, e-mail [email protected]"

From: http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article000801818.cfm?x=b11,0,w
Posted By: buster

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/08/08 11:19 PM

Thanks.

 Quote:
The OEMs want consistent friction performance
Posted By: Pablo

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 12:01 AM

 Quote:
The Afton package includes a detergent-inhibitor package and a shear-stable viscosity index improver package. Depending on the base stock used, treat levels are expected to be in the range of 11 to 14 percent.


I like the upfront honesty. With better basestock you need less additives. Imagine that.
Posted By: Audi Junkie

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 12:02 AM

It's the 5w-20 of trans fluids.
Posted By: cosynthetics

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 12:59 AM

I hate this licensing junk.
Posted By: Whitewolf

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 01:14 AM

So do all of the people that sell unlicensed products. However, licensing does attempt to protect the consumer since to be licenced the formulations have to be disclosed and can be checked. When a consumer purchases an unlicensed product they really don't know what they bought and no one is checking.
Posted By: cosynthetics

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 01:19 AM

Standards are a way of protecting the consumer too. Licensing generates income. That's it's entire purpose.

That's another reason I was hoping HD-DVD would win over BluRay. I'm tired of Sony and their proprietary stuff. It's all about licensing to generate income.
Posted By: onion

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 01:21 AM

I'm sure that Amsoil has already met and surpassed this spec.
Posted By: cosynthetics

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 01:24 AM

Really? What product would that be?
Posted By: The Critic

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 01:43 AM

 Originally Posted By: cosynthetics
Standards are a way of protecting the consumer too. Licensing generates income. That's it's entire purpose.

That isn't true, the licensing is done to protect the consumer to ensure that the service fill is at least of equal quality to the factory fill.

If you have been paying attention to the industry lately, GM has abolished the license fee with Dexron-VI. Now, there's no reason to shy away away from licensing.
Posted By: The Critic

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 01:47 AM

 Originally Posted By: onion
I'm sure that Amsoil has already met and surpassed this spec.

I still don't believe that Amsoil's ATF can truly meet the OEM requirements for frictional performance with their Universal product.

In a quote from my original post: ""GM's Dexron VI and Toyota's low-viscosity WS and Ford's Mercon LV are not currently compatible, because the design criteria and frictional requirements are different. The arena of transmission fluids is not converging," she told Lube Report. "These are different fluids with different design characteristics."

The frictional properties of these various fluids are different. The paper published by the SAE on Universal ATFs proves this. Amsoil doesn't seem to agree with that, and covers just about every fluid on the market with their universal product.
Posted By: Whitewolf

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 01:56 AM

Good post.
It shows that you really read what was said in contrast to some people who, when they read, only see what they want to see.
Posted By: Pablo

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 02:04 AM

When you guys are done, I'd like you to show me where Amsoil claims to meet WS or LV.

And while you are at it, show me the pile of dead transmissions from Amsoil ATF.

I'm not sure why this thread turned into an Amsoil ATF discussion but I want the record to show that I did NOT bring it up. I merely pointed out that Ford actually states the base oil type does have a bearing on the finished product.
Posted By: HondaMan

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 02:08 AM

 Originally Posted By: onion
I'm sure that Amsoil has already met and surpassed this spec.


First thing that came to my mind, but I didn't want to be wise

WHEN ... and it will only be a matter of time, Amsoil does claim it their ATF will meet and surpass this spec, it will be interesting .... I'm sure this post thread will be referenced over and over again.
Posted By: The Critic

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 02:08 AM

 Originally Posted By: Pablo
When you guys are done, I'd like you to show me where Amsoil claims to meet WS or LV.

I never say that did. However, knowing Amsoil, I'm sure they'll find a way to "make" their universal product meet this spec eventually.

 Originally Posted By: Pablo
And while you are at it, show me the pile of dead transmissions from Amsoil ATF.

Do you really think most transmission rebuilders have the ability to spot a fluid related failure?
Posted By: Whitewolf

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 02:12 AM

Excuse me Pablo but I don't think that I mentioned Amsoil.
Posted By: Pablo

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 02:44 AM

 Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Excuse me Pablo but I don't think that I mentioned Amsoil.


I didn't say you did. But "Onion" did.
Posted By: onion

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 03:03 AM

Sorry I stole your thunder.
Posted By: Pablo

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 03:04 AM

 Originally Posted By: The Critic
 Originally Posted By: Pablo
When you guys are done, I'd like you to show me where Amsoil claims to meet WS or LV.

I never say that did. However, knowing Amsoil, I'm sure they'll find a way to "make" their universal product meet this spec eventually.

 Originally Posted By: Pablo
And while you are at it, show me the pile of dead transmissions from Amsoil ATF.

Do you really think most transmission rebuilders have the ability to spot a fluid related failure?


But you did say "I still don't believe that Amsoil's ATF can truly meet the OEM requirements for frictional performance..." And you quoted "GM's Dexron VI and Toyota's low-viscosity WS and Ford's Mercon LV are not currently compatible...."

Well Amsoil did alter the ATF to meet Dex VI. Seems to work great. But Amsoil doesn't seem to want to or are not able to make it for WS, and I doubt for this new LV either. The bottom line there is: Frictionally just how different is Dex VI from Dex III? GM says Dex VI backward compatible. Can't be THAT different in frictional properties. Amsoil ATF simply has no issues meeting the frictional properties of Dexron. You don't have to believe it. The white paper showed us that there are differences in OEM fluids, it did NOT demonstrate a universal fluid could not be designed to meet the specifications listed by Amsoil. Since you say it CAN'T be possible, please provide proof.

I don't agree that easily "transmission rebuilders (don't) have the ability to spot a fluid related failure"....maybe it would tough to spot in the various piles, but some screening must take place. The biggest pile will be "design defects" if you are talking about Honda, maybe with GM it's "owner neglect" - but the point is that GM or any other trannies last just fine on Amsoil ATF, despite your thoughts.

Anyway back on this topic, why the struggle with the fact that the base fluid really does effect functionality of a fluid? It's easy to know it does in temperature/viscosity behavior as well as oxidation resistance - so why not the frictional properties as well?
Posted By: onion

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 03:24 AM

 Originally Posted By: Pablo
Seems to work great.


\:\! That's good enough for me! A salesman says his 'universal ATF' "seems to work great"!

Why bother with rigorous testing and verification, along with application-specific formulation?
Posted By: XS650

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 03:35 AM

 Originally Posted By: Pablo
The bottom line there is: Frictionally just how different is Dex VI from Dex III? GM says Dex VI backward compatible.


For the sake of picking a nit....Not for all applications. Per GM it's not backwards compatible for manual transmission application.
Posted By: Doug Hillary

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 03:40 AM

Hi,
this is a very complex issue. The Manufacturer's standards are just that - standards that they believe a product needs to meet to equal or better the intended/deign performance characteristics. And they will officially endorse the supplier who proves that it does!

I have no doubt that the increasing move by Manufacturers to officially endorse proven conforming products is not new. It started with CAT and engine lubricants in the 1930s and carried on then by MIL-L-2104 and the API's DG-DM-DS standards. CATs standards are a way of life today!!

This will mean that Oil Blenders will become increasing isolated if they chose NOT to have their products endorsed/licensed or whatever. They of course must be prepared to "wear" the product of NOT doing so!

ATFs and Euro transmissions are a particular case in point - the Manufacturer (ZF, Getrag, MB, Voith and etc) endorsed lubricants do perform better than those of "unknown" performance that say they "meet" or "exceed" the requirements

Regardless of the Brand!

I remember voicing this "compliance" matter regarding engine lubricants on here many years ago - many people including some well known contributors did not even know that ACEA existed for instance. I was "howled down" in antagonistic protest - perhaps we have come a long way since

I hope so
Posted By: onion

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 04:01 AM

 Originally Posted By: XS650

For the sake of picking a nit....Not for all applications. Per GM it's not backwards compatible for manual transmission application.


Another nit to pick: Allison has come out with a service bulletin saying not to use Dex VI in their older transmissions that came out with Dex III. They say that there are potential problems with seal compatibility. They still specify DexIII, even though it's no longer a licensed product.

But they use Dex VI in some of their new transmissions.
Posted By: Pablo

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 04:02 AM

 Originally Posted By: XS650
 Originally Posted By: Pablo
The bottom line there is: Frictionally just how different is Dex VI from Dex III? GM says Dex VI backward compatible.


For the sake of picking a nit....Not for all applications. Per GM it's not backwards compatible for manual transmission application.


This is true. I should have said in AT applications. Perhaps this is mainly a function of viscosity, and the reason I recommend ATD as a minimum vis fluid for Dex III MT's.
Posted By: Donald

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/09/08 01:09 PM

I am sure this will be a business decision for Amsoil. They can see if there is a way for the universal ATF to meet the spec, if not they would have to come out with a unique ATF. Whats the market, since Fords says the stuff goes 150K, which for many cars is lifetime. And there is no hurry, since few 2008 cars will need any ATF for awhile and if they did, it would sure to be a warranty issue and let the dealer fix it for free.

So it always come down to what is the business case.

I understand the issues with licensing, it somewhat protects the consumer, and also provides revenue to Ford. If Amsoil comes out with an ATF they claim that will meet the Mercon LV spec, then I would have faith that it does, they have too much to loose by claiming something they did not test. Same would be true for most other major oil companies. Now Mercon LV ATF at the dollar store would be a different story, licensed or not.
Posted By: MolaKule

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/10/08 01:43 AM

 Quote:
Anyway back on this topic, why the struggle with the fact that the base fluid really does effect functionality of a fluid? It's easy to know it does in temperature/viscosity behavior as well as oxidation resistance - so why not the frictional properties as well?


Let's get back to the focus of the total formulation.

The quality of the base oil provides the film strength characteristics, shear characteristics, varnish appearance, and oxidation. The better the base oil, the lower the varnish, lower oxidation, lower friction, higher film strength, and better shear resistance.

It is the additive package, and specifically the friction modification compounds (usually specialized complex amines) that determine the dynamic frictional characteristics of the fluid such as shift quality and anti-shudder for the frictional materials in the automatic transmission.

Now some of the other additives, such as oxidation inhibitors, help keep the oil more oxidation stable over the life of the oil; which is required for the more complex transmissions which tend to run hotter. Improved viscosity improvers in Group III oils also will help the oil maintain viscosity over the life of the oil as well. Pure synthetic ATF's will use little or no viscosity index improvers since their inherent viscosity characteristics are more stable.
Posted By: MolaKule

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/10/08 01:45 AM

The improved chemistries of viscosity index improvers are also much more stable than previous formulations and are of a different type than used in PCMO's.
Posted By: wiswind

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/10/08 01:22 PM

Thank you very much for the informative post.
This is the kind of "stuff" that I like to read.

I also really like to see input from Molakule, as well as others.

I have learned a lot from this site.

I am sure that Amsoil, like any other oil company will look at the Mercon LV specification and evaluate the potential market for a product for this.
If it is a TRUE fill for life/150K mile product, to be used ONLY in the newer transmissions, then the only demand for this product will be for repair (and for FORD's sake that better be minimal) and 100K-150K mile service.
That may not be a big demand in the aftermarket.
My '96 FORD calls for 30K mile "normal" service and 21K "severe" service.
So going to 100K-150K is a big drop in demand for a product.

As far as confidence in a product, we are going on faith that what is in the bottle will do as the label says.
I am not concerned about warranty on a 12 year old vehicle, but I pay very close attention to what the manufacterer specifies for my vehicle.

If Amsoil puts Mercon LV specification on the bottle, I am sure that a lot of thought and investigation will have gone into it.
I have not used Amsoil (yet), but I do believe what they list on their product.
However, it comes down to what each person has confidence in....after doing their own homework.
For folks like me......it is reading what other people say......and having confidence in what they say......or not having confidence in what they say.
Posted By: LubeMan

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/10/08 06:01 PM

Well good luck to you - its pretty sad that you want to believe a marketer and not OEMs who test and release products for customers.

One question which keeps coming up is if Ansoil products are so good why don't they get a license for these WS, LV and Dex-VI products ? Is it against their reputation to do so ? Once they get a bill from these OEMs that will change their policy.
Posted By: badtlc

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/10/08 06:12 PM

Kudos to Ford.
Posted By: Donald

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/10/08 06:18 PM

Amsoil does not pay for any of the licensing (SAE either). But they do state on the bottle what spec(s) it meet. Amsoil has a small percentage of the market (but maybe a much larger percentage of the BITOG market). They do however spend money on doing testing to make sure their oil meets the various specs and performs well in many tests. The question would be how much more revenue would Amsoil get if they paid for licensing for all their oils and could put the SAE (or other) sticker on their bottle? My guess is few people who might buy Amsoil are scared away because it does not have an official SAE sticker on the bottle.
Posted By: Pablo

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/10/08 06:29 PM

 Originally Posted By: LubeMan
Well good luck to you - its pretty sad that you want to believe a marketer and not OEMs who test and release products for customers.

One question which keeps coming up is if Ansoil products are so good why don't they get a license for these WS, LV and Dex-VI products ? Is it against their reputation to do so ? Once they get a bill from these OEMs that will change their policy.


To imply Amsoil doesn't test their products is not correct.
Amsoil is not claiming compliance with WS or LV.
Not against "their reputation", more like Amsoil does not want to be constrained.
Not sure what you mean by "a bill from these OEMs"? Please explain.
Posted By: onion

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/10/08 09:40 PM

 Originally Posted By: Pablo

Not sure what you mean by "a bill from these OEMs"? Please explain.


He probably means a lawsuit for false adversizing or something along those lines. But I don't think that's too likely, considering Amsoil's penchant for creative wording.

Redline D6, on the other hand, seems like (legally) risky labeling to me.
Posted By: Audi Junkie

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/11/08 01:10 AM

I'd guess that a thicker fluid, like AMSoil ATF is, would do better in the LV-spec unit than vice-versa.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I was as nit-picking of an AMSoil skeptic as anyone, but look at what I have in my new Honda trans, AMSoil ATF.

The thread has gone off-course.
Posted By: The Critic

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/11/08 01:33 AM

 Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I'd guess that a thicker fluid, like AMSoil ATF is, would do better in the LV-spec unit than vice-versa.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I was as nit-picking of an AMSoil skeptic as anyone, but look at what I have in my new Honda trans, AMSoil ATF.

The thread has gone off-course.

What good is a thicker fluid if the newer one is thinner, but more shear stable?

Also remember that the thinner fluids can have a higher film strength than older "thicker" fluids. This is something that a lot of people don't think about.
Posted By: bmwtechguy

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/11/08 01:55 AM

I saw Mercon V bottle at WM today, SuperTech, and it had the LV,SP, and about every other spec like ATF+4 listed on it as well, all for 2.97 a bottle. Sounds like a poor man's Amsoil, and then some! One shoe fits all..
Posted By: Whitewolf

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/11/08 04:31 AM

"What good is a thicker fluid if the newer one is thinner, but more shear stable?

Also remember that the thinner fluids can have a higher film strength than older "thicker" fluids. This is something that a lot of people don't think about".
The Critic.

The problem is that the majority of people just can't get their head around that.
Posted By: psudaytona

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/11/08 06:59 AM

Thats because many dont want to learn anything beyond the idle chatter they pick up here and there. Its the same idea that keeps people to the, "if you dont change the oil every 3000, you WILL kill that engine" nonsense. I try as many of you do to educate those I come into contact with but its a slow dying tradition.

Most folks arent like those of us at this site. My personal reason for wanting to learn the science behind this probably has alot to due with how I approach life in general. I want to understand everything around me.....Probably also why I am pursuing a Phd eventually.....
Posted By: Donald

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/11/08 11:44 PM

No one knows (ok a few at Amsoil do) how Amsoil will try and meet this new spec (or not). So all speculation. My point was its a business decision (not technical) as to what to do. If they can meet it by modifying a current ATF, much less of a big deal, if they have to come out with a new unique fluid, with who knows what the volume would be, a much bigger deal.
Posted By: Tempest

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/12/08 09:58 PM

 Quote:
Also remember that the thinner fluids can have a higher film strength than older "thicker" fluids. This is something that a lot of people don't think about".
The Critic.

The problem is that the majority of people just can't get their head around that.

Can we have a tutorial as this is something that has not been brought up around here much but is most interesting.
Posted By: bythabay

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/12/08 10:02 PM

key word here is "can have," doesn't mean that they do. Perhaps some do, but my guess is that most heavier weight oils will have the thicker oil film - and I repeat, that's my "guess."

 Originally Posted By: Tempest
 Quote:
Also remember that the thinner fluids can have a higher film strength than older "thicker" fluids. This is something that a lot of people don't think about".
The Critic.

The problem is that the majority of people just can't get their head around that.

Can we have a tutorial as this is something that has not been brought up around here much but is most interesting.
Posted By: LubeMan

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/13/08 02:14 PM

That is true - low visocity fluid "can" have higher fluid film thickness than high viscosity fluids.

I think the reason there is a "can" in the above statement and previous post is because a lot depends on what additive package you have in the low viscosity fluid too. Its not always about finished fluid viscosity. I am in no mean saying that baseoil viscosity does not matter - but you have to look at the complete product and not just one aspect.
Posted By: bruce381

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/14/08 01:42 AM

""higher fluid film thickness"'

you mean higher fluid film strength

film thickenss is mostly due to viscosity
film strength is a combination of additives and viscosity

bruce
Posted By: bruce381

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/14/08 10:30 PM

Whitewolf pointed out to me that film thickness is NOT all the time due to viscosity alone I stand corrected.
bruce
Posted By: Whitewolf

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/14/08 11:36 PM

You are too honest for your own good Bruce.
Posted By: unDummy

Re: Ford Unveils Mercon LV - 03/16/08 11:25 PM

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=16&Number=887029

Not on any store shelves yet.
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