I have startup noise on my 4 cyl Frontier. It is very bad after the vehicle sits for a few days. Within a very short time the idle smooths. The mileage is 50k and it has always had Mobil 1 5-30 at a 5k change. I have used Nissan and Fram ExtraGuard filters. My question is does anyone with this vehicle experience the same symptom and is there a better oil/filter combination? Being in Mississippi the morning temp is routinely never below 25. Any suggestions welcome. This is my first post and I will soon be asking a few questions as to Toyota. I have the Sienna and a Camry.
98 FRONTIER NOISE
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MolaKule
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I would say that it is moisture affecting the ignition system until it warms up enough to burn it off.
Not sure the oil is the cause of this effect.
What is the oil pressure at start-up, have you replaced the plugs/wire/distributor cap recently, etc.?
How many miles on engine, do the lifter shims need replacement?
Addendum: My Frontier never liked the 5W30, no matter WHAT brand it was. Volativity is always too high for 5W30.
Move up to 10W30.
[ February 16, 2004, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Not sure the oil is the cause of this effect.
What is the oil pressure at start-up, have you replaced the plugs/wire/distributor cap recently, etc.?
How many miles on engine, do the lifter shims need replacement?
Addendum: My Frontier never liked the 5W30, no matter WHAT brand it was. Volativity is always too high for 5W30.
Move up to 10W30.
[ February 16, 2004, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
thanks for the comment about the 5-30 oil. I do not know about the pressure but I have recently changed plugs. The change had no effect on the symptom. I had not suspected that a change to 10w-30 would make a difference.
im a nissan tech here in atlanta and i hate to say this to you because im sure you like your truck if you bought it but......the KA24DE engine sucks. No way around it- it really sucks. Now that ive said that, i can tell you whats going on.
those engines are notorious for their lifters going south as the engine ages, but it is such an OLD design (done in the late 80's) that it really only seems happy with a higher viscosity oil than the 5w-30 ExxonMobil stuff we use. Some have said that a 10-40 or 15w-40 oil is loved by this engine, but id say runt he 15w-40 in summer only. thats just me.
excepts for oil leaks (valve cover gasket) and intake gasket leaks, this engine is strong. at least its block is stronger thant hte new QR25DE thats in the new altima! WHEW! I saw one today that came in for the exhaust recall and came in a little too late. apparently the CAT material had finally given up the ghost from too many niles of running too hot and disentegrated into the engine.
This caused oil consumption, which increased over time until, KERBLAMMO!!! a hole the size of two fists appeared behind the header and two other dime sized holes in other places in the block appeared as well. Sorry for the off topic ramble, just couldnt believe it!! Aluminium doesnt crack...nope. It explodes!
those engines are notorious for their lifters going south as the engine ages, but it is such an OLD design (done in the late 80's) that it really only seems happy with a higher viscosity oil than the 5w-30 ExxonMobil stuff we use. Some have said that a 10-40 or 15w-40 oil is loved by this engine, but id say runt he 15w-40 in summer only. thats just me.
excepts for oil leaks (valve cover gasket) and intake gasket leaks, this engine is strong. at least its block is stronger thant hte new QR25DE thats in the new altima! WHEW! I saw one today that came in for the exhaust recall and came in a little too late. apparently the CAT material had finally given up the ghost from too many niles of running too hot and disentegrated into the engine.
This caused oil consumption, which increased over time until, KERBLAMMO!!! a hole the size of two fists appeared behind the header and two other dime sized holes in other places in the block appeared as well. Sorry for the off topic ramble, just couldnt believe it!! Aluminium doesnt crack...nope. It explodes!
You will soon discover a strange contradiction in what viscosity oil to use. Here in North America we are led to believe that 5W-30, 5W-20, whatever, is "best" for the environment and "best" for our motor.
Yet if you get hold of shop manuals, oil company recommendations, whatever, for the SAME EXACT MOTOR operated in other countries (South America, Africa, Australlia, Europe, etc)the viscosity recommendations are FAR different.
There is a fellow from Bogata, or is it Bolivia, who makes posts and he posted the recommendations for South America for brand new Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc.
In most cases, the maker only recommended a 5W-30 up to +10 C, around 50 F. For temps higher than that they recommended a much heavier viscosity, usually in the 10W-40, 15W-40, 20W-50, 15W-50 range.
If the clatter only happens on startup, have you tried finding an oil filter with an "anti drain back" valve? This is a flapper inside the filter that supposedly holds residual pressure so the top end gets oil much quicker.
I would check the oil filter situation first to see about the "anti drain back" and then maybe try a different - heavier - viscosity.
Jerry
Yet if you get hold of shop manuals, oil company recommendations, whatever, for the SAME EXACT MOTOR operated in other countries (South America, Africa, Australlia, Europe, etc)the viscosity recommendations are FAR different.
There is a fellow from Bogata, or is it Bolivia, who makes posts and he posted the recommendations for South America for brand new Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc.
In most cases, the maker only recommended a 5W-30 up to +10 C, around 50 F. For temps higher than that they recommended a much heavier viscosity, usually in the 10W-40, 15W-40, 20W-50, 15W-50 range.
If the clatter only happens on startup, have you tried finding an oil filter with an "anti drain back" valve? This is a flapper inside the filter that supposedly holds residual pressure so the top end gets oil much quicker.
I would check the oil filter situation first to see about the "anti drain back" and then maybe try a different - heavier - viscosity.
Jerry
thanks for the information. I am going to a heavier oil and will experiment with a filter. Interesting about the engine and its love for a heavier oil. It almost seams all the posts talk about going thinner.
I'll bet it's yet another lifter post/problem.
My guess is that you either have worn or dirty lifters. I get the same thing but only during extreme cold. Thicker oil makes things worse. Noise is completely absent/non-existant with fuel system cleaners. Weird...
My guess is that you either have worn or dirty lifters. I get the same thing but only during extreme cold. Thicker oil makes things worse. Noise is completely absent/non-existant with fuel system cleaners. Weird...
Molakule,
I use the Amsoil ATM 10w-30 in my 94 altima. The 2.4L definately seems to run smoother with that than the Amsoil ASL 5w-30. So it was not just my imagination. It ran even better after an autorx treatment with Castrol GTX 10w-30. Now time to send off the sample to Blackstone for analysis.
Christopher Jefferson,
Thanks for elaborating on the problems of the KA24DE. I will know what problems to look out for on this 10 year/125,000 miles car. It has been mentioned as a problem engine like the Toyota 3.0 V6 but no one has given the evidence to back it up like you did.
guitarrocks,
The Amsoil ATM 10w-30 or the AME 15w-40 would be my choice for KA24DE. If I keep this vehicle for awhile, I will be using the AME 15w-40 at the next OCI. I have been pleased with Amsoil in my Nissan vehicles.
I use the Amsoil ATM 10w-30 in my 94 altima. The 2.4L definately seems to run smoother with that than the Amsoil ASL 5w-30. So it was not just my imagination. It ran even better after an autorx treatment with Castrol GTX 10w-30. Now time to send off the sample to Blackstone for analysis.
Christopher Jefferson,
Thanks for elaborating on the problems of the KA24DE. I will know what problems to look out for on this 10 year/125,000 miles car. It has been mentioned as a problem engine like the Toyota 3.0 V6 but no one has given the evidence to back it up like you did.
guitarrocks,
The Amsoil ATM 10w-30 or the AME 15w-40 would be my choice for KA24DE. If I keep this vehicle for awhile, I will be using the AME 15w-40 at the next OCI. I have been pleased with Amsoil in my Nissan vehicles.
MolaKule
Staff member
Christopher Jefferson,
Does Guitar's engine have hydraulic lifters?
I know my truck has solid bucket-type (direct-acting) lifters.
I may be assuming incorrectly that his engine had the same valvetrain design as mine.
[ February 17, 2004, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Does Guitar's engine have hydraulic lifters?
I know my truck has solid bucket-type (direct-acting) lifters.
I may be assuming incorrectly that his engine had the same valvetrain design as mine.
[ February 17, 2004, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Guitarrocks,
I had a 1999 Nissan truck with the same complaint.
Nissan has a service bulletin # NTB99-079 tittled: "Engine - Rattle Noise After Overnight Cold Soak"
The fix consists of replacing 20 updated cam bolts and an updated timing chain tensioner. The bulletin gives a procedure to load the cam caps to one side while tightening the replaced bolts.
I had this performed under warranty and I doubt they will do this for free outside their 5/60 powertrain warranty.
After the fix, I found the best oil/filter combo for my engine (noise etc.) was Mobil 1 10w-30 and a K&N filter. I tried M1 5w-30 during one summer and the engine used one full quart. Switching back to the 10W-30 stuff eliminated any usage during my 6k average intervals.
Brent
I had a 1999 Nissan truck with the same complaint.
Nissan has a service bulletin # NTB99-079 tittled: "Engine - Rattle Noise After Overnight Cold Soak"
The fix consists of replacing 20 updated cam bolts and an updated timing chain tensioner. The bulletin gives a procedure to load the cam caps to one side while tightening the replaced bolts.
I had this performed under warranty and I doubt they will do this for free outside their 5/60 powertrain warranty.
After the fix, I found the best oil/filter combo for my engine (noise etc.) was Mobil 1 10w-30 and a K&N filter. I tried M1 5w-30 during one summer and the engine used one full quart. Switching back to the 10W-30 stuff eliminated any usage during my 6k average intervals.
Brent
I thought that engine was OverHeadCam-no lifters...I'd think that it was just draining oil down and taking time to build up pressure at cold start..
first thing to do is start using another brand filter (anything but Fram..) Frams always gave me valve train noise at startup on my Nissan truck (1989 Z24 engine 190k miles at the moment)- even during the summer..I use Motorcraft Fl300 now, (and thicker oil, even when new I used 10w40) and it feels much better in the mornings....
hope this helps
see ya
Rando
[ February 17, 2004, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: ZR2RANDO ]
first thing to do is start using another brand filter (anything but Fram..) Frams always gave me valve train noise at startup on my Nissan truck (1989 Z24 engine 190k miles at the moment)- even during the summer..I use Motorcraft Fl300 now, (and thicker oil, even when new I used 10w40) and it feels much better in the mornings....
hope this helps
see ya
Rando
[ February 17, 2004, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: ZR2RANDO ]
I appreciate all the tips. I will try another filter/oil combination. the last few mornings have been in the 25-30 degree range with heavy frost and the normal morning start noise that goes away in 15-20 seconds. I do not like any filter I have used so far and the K&N would also be a help in removal. Of course in 2 months it will be 85 degrees. Still like the truck, just not a smooth crank!
The KA24DE does not have lifters. The KA24SE does. Both of these engines go over 200k miles with ease, so I'm not sure how you claim they suck. Do you work at Regal?
[ February 19, 2004, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: RussellA ]
Well I believe the frontier engine has a problem with the Timing CHAIN TENSIONER.
If not, my friend had a 1998 Frontier with 150K and it had a slight knocking sound at cold starts, but new cap/rotor and plugs help that. The spark plugs were really bad, so what the cap and rotor.
If not, my friend had a 1998 Frontier with 150K and it had a slight knocking sound at cold starts, but new cap/rotor and plugs help that. The spark plugs were really bad, so what the cap and rotor.
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