Frantz Oil Cleaners

[Fuelrod]

I was surprised to see these filters are still being sold..Not many products stay on the shelf for 50 years!! Back in the '60's they used a roll of toilet paper for the filter media. Is that the currant material? Back then, you adjusted filtration by unrolling paper to get a "perfect" fit in the container

Is that how it's still done? They sure worked good. In most cars, the oil stayed clear as Mazola..

 

[Gary Allan]

Yep! Same deal. They're still produced ...I guess under license ...and Ralph uses tp or paper towel inserts (bigger filters) with his Motor Guard. www.wefilterit.com sells them. Very effective and low cost to maintain.

 

[RJCorazza]

I believe the Frantz has only changed the clamp that holds it together (better) and put a screen in the bottom since introduction. They are also available in a highly polished "show car" version.
The Motorguards filter the same, however, as one who has both types - the Motorguard is much easier to service. I also feel more comfortable with the way it threads down on the element. Ralph Wood of Bypassfilter.com will go to great lengths to assist with installation issues, and has developed a new core that works with 1 1/2" and 1 5/8" TP cores.

When I replace the TP element in my diesel tractor the TP is jet black, heavy, and hard as a rock! After 200 hours the oil has a black tinge to it, but I can still see through the oil to the hash marks on the dipstck. Incredible.

 

[Fuelrod]

The only problem I remember was TP's water solubility. As long as the crankcase was DRY, there was no problem. But in some wintertime, short trip installations, the trapped moisture would break down the tissue...The paper towel roll would work better because that product has great wet strength...Those blue paper shop towels would be ideal...

 

[trynew]

Water problems for toilet paper must only affect certain brands, because I have been using Scott toilet paper in a Motorguard as a cooling system (water and antifreeze mixture) filter without problems. When I take out the TP roll, it still looks intact (though soggy).

 

[Gary Allan]

Allegedly the presence of water in oil will shorten the TP life span ..but it does (again allegedly) remove it from the oil.

From Wefilterit's site:

quote:

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Will the Frantz Oil Cleaner/Filter remove Acid from the Oil?

The Frantz Oil Cleaner will not remove acid from the oil. It will prevent the formation of corrosive acid by removing the water from oil. Without water, corrosive acids cannot be formed. Numerous laboratory analyses have shown no acidity content in oil filtered through the Frantz Oil Cleaner/Filter even after many thousands of miles of use.

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[Fuelrod]

Trynew, I once worked in paper mill that made tissue products. TP has NO wet strength. Put some in a jar of water and shake it up..It will dissolve completely in short order. I suspect your Coolant filter quickly becomes a plug and the flow rate drops to zero....Paper fiber WILL pack down on a screen when wet and form a tight mat of fiber. That's how paper sheets are made..

Paper towels on the other hand have a heat setting resin added to the pulp called Kymeen Resin (spelling) which give the finished product tremendous wet strength. Paper towels will NOT dissolve in water. TP uses the cheapest pulp for its production. Short fiber stuff and lots of waste paper in the mix. The machines that make TP are very dusty.. Towels got the best, longest fiber and little or no waste paper. They are almost dust free...I have no idea how this relates to these products when used as filtering media..

 

[oldman]

TP has NO wet strength.
I don't use TP to filter water but Mykro posted pictures of his PSD install using four Frantz filters and he filters coolant. Are you talking about putting a whole TP roll in a jar and shaking it around and that will make it disolve? Wouldn't that have the same affect as filtering coolant? His picture of the coolant TP looked like it did not dissolve. When I put TP in my Motor Guard it is compressed inside the element and does not have much room to move around.

 

[RalphPWood]

I now have Motor Guards on wind generators in New England, a drilling rig air compressor on a Shell Oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico. The Shell engineer told me they had good service from a Frantz oil cleaner removing water from the expensive compressor oil. They needed a very easy to service filter because the mechanic changes the filter every day because of a severe condensation problem. After a roll of TP gets saturated with oil it will hold about 6 ozs of water. We depend on engine heat to remove most of the water. If you don't have the heat you have to use depth filtration or drain the high dollar oil. When you are running 24/7 you don't want to shut down the compressor to drain the oil. The mechanic can turn off the valve to the filter and change the filter in less than one minute. The oil protects the paper the same as antifreeze does. Some TP fanatics use TP to clean drinking water before it goes into the activated carbon filter. TP is effective enough to remove bacteria. If you don't use the filter enough the TP will sour and the water will smell and taste bad. I learned that letting the filter sit a few days in my RV. Marine vessel owners remove the element after a trip.
Motor Guard has a special high wet strength element similar to coffee filter paper. I have to remove the plastic core before using it for motor oil. A lot of Motor Guards are used for critical things like medical use. I don't think the element would be better for motor oil but might have an advantage for coolant. I haven't tried the Motor Guard element for drinking water but since it is similar to coffee filter paper it might be just the thing. If high wet strength paper is your thing you can get the Motor Guard M-723 element from www.mcmaster.com catalog no. 9841k93. Remove the core for hot use.
The first water removing filters made by Motor Guard used TP for an element. If the big air dryer on the 100 HP compressor at work malfunctions I am very glad the little Motor Guards can protect the critical instrumentation from water. I am a lot better at changing the filter than repairing the instrumentation and pneumatic controls. No, I don't recommend the filters for drinking water.

Ralph

 

[oldman]

I just put a roll of TP in a bucket of water and I am going to see what it does. So far it is just sitting there and absorbing water. Has not broken up so far.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by oldman:
I just put a roll of TP in a bucket of water and I am going to see what it does. So far it is just sitting there and absorbing water. Has not broken up so far.

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I'm surprised at how well toilet paper is claimed to work with water based coolants, but if Ralph Wood says it works, I tend to believe it. At least with the brands of TP Ralph has used.

It appears that as long as the TP is supported by the housing, the lack of wet strength in water isn't an issue. At least not as long as it doesn't turn into a block of mush that blocks the flow. It sounds like that doen't happen.

 

[oldman]

Yes Ralph has used the Motor Guard to filter almost everything and it works. The TP I put in water has not broken down at all and it is not in a sealed container, just sitting in water. It is still amazing to me that I can use TP in my Tundra and the oil is still the same as it was over 2K ago.

 

[Steve S]

quote:

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Originally posted by oldman:
I just put a roll of TP in a bucket of water and I am going to see what it does. So far it is just sitting there and absorbing water. Has not broken up so far.

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Remember saturate the tp in oil first, once saturated with oil will the tp absorb water ?

 

[Mykro]

quote:

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Originally posted by oldman:
TP has NO wet strength.
I don't use TP to filter water but Mykro posted pictures of his PSD install using four Frantz filters and he filters coolant. Are you talking about putting a whole TP roll in a jar and shaking it around and that will make it disolve? Wouldn't that have the same affect as filtering coolant? His picture of the coolant TP looked like it did not dissolve. When I put TP in my Motor Guard it is compressed inside the element and does not have much room to move around.

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I am filtering The Evans coolant which is pure propylene glycol.. (http://evanscooling.com/main23.htm)
When removing the element from the canister you need the help of a screw driver to help pry it away from the sides of the canister. The element has a tendency to stick just a bit. The TP actually gets stronger when soaked with the the stuff!...
Since propylene glycol is not an oil the element won't slide out of the canister as easy as an oil laden element would. The Frantz works very well with the Evans Coolant, I've changed the element twice in 15,000 miles. Both times the used element looked clean except for the initial element which is pictured in my webshots page, that element was changed at a thousand miles..(http://community.webshots.com/album/114815318vlzHVh)
I'm very happy with the setup.. I've got a lifetime coolant in a maintainence free cooling system.. Except for changing the elements which I actually look forward too..

 

[oldman]

Thanks Mykro, If Fuelrod's statement was correct you would need a spoon instead of a screw driver to remove the TP.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by oldman:
Thanks Mykro, If Fuelrod's statement was correct you would need a spoon instead of a screw driver to remove the TP.

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There is no connection, Mykro wasn't using TP in water.

 

[oldman]

Next time I change my filter I will give it a try.

 

[RalphPWood]

When you separate the halves it's a matter of grabbing the element and pulling it out. The epoxy is slick. I have never used the Evans coolant. All I have used is the 50/50 Ethylene glycol. All I have ever used for coolant in small systems is the Motor Guard. A screw driver would do a job on the epoxy coating.
I have a system at work that holds 500 gallons of glycol. I am using Texaco coolant the same as you use in a car but we get in 55 gallon drums. The best filter I have for that is the big Cummins Fleetguard LF-750. The little TP filters won't even go a day without needing changing. The big filter has been modified to take two rolls of Kleenex paper towels and three rolls of Scott TP. It is about the equivalent of 15 Motor Guards in parallel. Paper towel filters were invented to replace the old Frantz three stackers on the tuna boats and other large engines. I let the PH get a little low and had problems with the mile or so of black pipe contaminating the filter. I had to change the coolant and now I take a sample to the lab and have the PH checked pretty regularly. I filter some pretty nasty stuff at work. For really nasty stuff the paper towels hold up better. For something like motor oil or ATF it doesn't matter. On one forum they were talking about one filter that can clean oil as good as TP. One of the wise guys on the forum cut open the cartridge and found a roll of TP. The military tested four filters at Ford Hood. I don't sell any of them but two use TP and two use cotton. One of them uses a string filter element and didn't do too well. For marketing reasons they are putting TP and Paper Towels in a sock or other covering and calling them other things. Some people feel better when they pay more for an element. That way they can pay more and still get the advantages of clean oil.
The boss wasn't happy when I went to Propylene Glycol. He said it cost twice as much. I went from Ethylene Glycol to Propylene Glycol and back to Ethylene Glycol. Bosses can be a real pain in the neck. He does like the oil analysis numbers on the equipment.

Ralph