Noack Variances

[buster]

Since I've been on a Noack tear lately, mostly due to having 2 GDI engines, I've noticed what others have said in the past about Noack testing having a margin of error. Noack is an approximate figure. It's not the end all, but it is something to consider. Also, companies will play games with this number and obviously choose the lowest value they can obtain.

Just for fun, here are some examples from an independent lab and the product data sheet comparisons. The data is from the YouTube channel which has been very consistent.

Amsoil SS 0w20 PDS - 8.5%
Lab Tested - 9.5%
Amsoil SS 0w30 PDS - 8.8%
Lab Tested - 9.5%

Redline 0w20 PDS - 9.0%
Lab Tested - 9.4%

Ravenol 0w20 ECS - 7.4%
Lab Tested - 7.5%

 

[kstanf150]

With the exception of the Amsoil differences
RL and Ravenol seem to be pretty dang close
That's for the info !

 

[buster]

Link to the source of the lab data.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Did they test multiple bottles/batches or just one?

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Did they test multiple bottles/batches or just one?


Likely just one. That would be quite expensive I'd imagine.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Did they test multiple bottles/batches or just one?


Likely just one. That would be quite expensive I'd imagine.

Right, but considering bottle-to-bottle, batch-to-batch variation, in addition to the already inherent difficulty of accurately measuring Noack, it makes their test results less valuable, but better than nothing, I guess. Thanks for sharing.

 

[bbhero]

I don't believe the variation would be all that great and worthy of much real world concern. ..

Not likely at all too see one batch with a Noack of 8.8 percent and the next batch at say 14.5 percent....

Using properly proportional weights/amounts of each base oil added to a blend would very likely produce a very highly consistent oil performance in all measurable means and testing procedures.

 

[dave1251]

Within a percent I would chalk this to margin of error.

 

[buster]

Agree

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Within a percent I would chalk this to margin of error.

In which case, you can say that all of these oils tested correctly, compared to their spec sheet.

 

[sloinker]

The Ravenol is within error margins. The Red Line isn't and the Amsoil is fraud. I wonder if the oil oxidzes to a degree starting immediately after blending and this affects the test?

 

[kschachn]

Without knowing which specific ASTM test was used and the repeatability and reproducability from that standard it is impossible to tell whether the listed numbers are equivalent to the published values. Tests like pour point, flash point and Noack generally have wide reproducibility values.

In order to be able to make a valid comparison the tests must use the same ASTM procedure, the facility must use ASTM certified test equipment, and they must follow the test exactly as written, including minimum sample size and proper data analysis. No exceptions.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by sloinker
The Ravenol is within error margins. The Red Line isn't and the Amsoil is fraud. I wonder if the oil oxidzes to a degree starting immediately after blending and this affects the test?

What are the margins for this test?

But before you answer that, which test is it?

 

[buster]

ASTM D5800 was used for Noack.

The point of the post was just that there is going to be some small variation in the numbers that's all.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by buster
ASTM D5800 was used for Noack.

The point of the post was just that there is going to be some small variation in the numbers that's all.

Thanks. I no longer have access to the ASTM procedures and I couldn't find a rogue copy online. There are four different procedures in the standard however (A, B, C or D) so it also matters which procedure is being used.

 

[CT8]

Why would it matter?

 

[LubricatusObsess]

Thanks for sharing. Great point. I wish we could see tolerance ranges around these test results, if they aren't accurate to significant decimal places.

It's difficult to assess the data otherwise.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by CT8
Why would it matter?

Were you asking me? If so it is because the repeatability and reproducibility is different for the four test methods.

 

[JustN89]

In a vacuum, after this result, I'd be happy with all 3 of these oils. Less than 1% variance doesn't bother me.

 

[kstanf150]

With all the different people who post here

Is there anybody who works in the oil refining, oil manufacturing, oil blending, oil bottling, oil chemist, or even just packing the boxes and shipping it out ???????

Lots of folks around here have all the answers
But who works in the oil industry who knows what really goes into manufacturing and bottling motor oil ????

Who is it ????