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104+ Fuel Injector Pro ? #5265273 11/12/19 04:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
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ChrisD46 Offline OP
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Not familiar with this injector cleaner until I saw it in a recent issue of "Car & Driver" ... Any one have experience with this fuel injector cleaner ?


'17 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 5W20 QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 (50%) / 5W20 (50%) QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'07 Kia Sedona 3.8L 5W30 Castrol EP / Fram Ultra #9999
Re: 104+ Fuel Injector Pro ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5265677 11/13/19 03:20 AM
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montero1 Offline
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Supposedly one of the "the best" for GDI and DFI engines.


'07 Z4 3.0 SI
'08 GL1800
'10 Jeep Rubicon
'10 Corvette
'13 V-Star 1300 Deluxe (Hers)
'13 VFR1200F
'14 Porsche Cayman
'16 Harley Electra Glide Limited
'18 GMC Canyon Denali (Hers)
Re: 104+ Fuel Injector Pro ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5265764 11/13/19 08:03 AM
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Davejam Offline
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The safety data sheet lists:
Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light (CAS-No.) 64742-47-8 0 - 65%
Proprietary additive* (CAS-No.) Trade Secret 0 - 35%

So, no clues there. No clues on the label.

So, personally i'll pass in favor of something known to have PEA (Techron, Gumout, etc)

Re: 104+ Fuel Injector Pro ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5266142 11/13/19 02:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,643
MolaKule Offline
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Note: The Following statement is not an endorsement, criticism, or statement of efficacy of the product below but is simply an observation of the product's chemistry:

A fuel system cleaner that appears to have the "kitchen sink" in terms of solvent chemistry, is this one:

CHAMPION ® Fuel Injector Cleaner

Last edited by MolaKule; 11/13/19 02:26 PM.

"Dr. Larry Fleinhardt:
You know that it's considered unsolvable?
Charlie Eppes:
Well, certainly people who have failed to solve it might think that." From NUMB3RS
Re: 104+ Fuel Injector Pro ? [Re: MolaKule] #5266351 11/13/19 06:47 PM
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ChrisD46 Offline OP
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Have not heard of the Champion product - generally I would look for PEA as the significant additive .
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Note: The Following statement is not an endorsement, criticism, or statement of efficacy of the product below but is simply an observation of the product's chemistry:

A fuel system cleaner that appears to have the "kitchen sink" in terms of solvent chemistry, is this one:

CHAMPION ® Fuel Injector Cleaner


'17 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 5W20 QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 (50%) / 5W20 (50%) QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'07 Kia Sedona 3.8L 5W30 Castrol EP / Fram Ultra #9999
Re: 104+ Fuel Injector Pro ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5266436 11/13/19 08:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,643
MolaKule Offline
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Originally Posted by ChrisD46
Have not heard of the Champion product - generally I would look for PEA as the significant additive .
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Note: The Following statement is not an endorsement, criticism, or statement of efficacy of the product below but is simply an observation of the product's chemistry:

A fuel system cleaner that appears to have the "kitchen sink" in terms of solvent chemistry, is this one:

CHAMPION ® Fuel Injector Cleaner



The Champion product does have PEA included.

PEA is a temperature activated hydrocarbon disperser. The other chemicals, even in most PEA type fuel additives, disperse and dissolve varnishes and soft carbon deposits that PEA cannot solve. PEA is not an "end-all."

Originally Posted by MolaKule
P.E.A. and Aminic Fuel Additives

PEA fuel additives are composed of specialized amines which is the Subject of this White Paper.

The primary use of PEA’s in fuel is to control intake valve and combustion chamber deposits.

Amines in various forms are also used as anti-oxidants in lubricants.


Chemistry Classification:


Amines are classified as “Aliphatic Nitrogen Compounds” because these molecules contain at least one Nitrogen atom.

The most basic amine molecule has three hydrogen atoms and one nitrogen atom linked as in:

H
/
H-N-H


One of the primary amines is 2-propanamine Isopropylamine with the formula structure:

H
/
CH3-C-CH3
/
NH2

Most amine compounds are made by the reaction of some form of ammonia, NH3, with other chemicals.

The household version of ammonia is actually a weak solution of ammonium hydroxide, or NH3 in water, H2O.

Fuel Additive:

The actual amine fuel additive is a form of polyetheramine or P.E.A and is seen in blended fuels, and in fuel additives such as Techron and other OTC fuel system additives. The basic polyetheramine is added to fuels at about 50ppm but the level of polyetheramine depends greatly on the components of the blended fuel. Recall that gasoline or diesel fuels are actually blends of various light hydrocarbons of various cuts.
Newer versions of the polyetheramine are actually esterified polyetheramines called, “esteramines.” The esteramines adds polarity to the amine.

The polyether esteramines for OTC additives are added to solvent neutral oils at levels of approximately 400 ppm. The basic polyetheramines found in blended fuels are very synergisticic with the newer esteramines.

It is believed that the polar polyetheramine’s attach to the hydrocarbon deposit and via thermodynamic activation, softens the carbon. The flowstream across the valves and the turbulence inside the combustion chamber then blow the hydrocarbon deposits to the exhaust stream.

Increases in hydrocarbon loads not only exit the exhaust stream, but can also enter the oil. It is always a good idea to change the oil after using a strong fuel system cleaner.


"Dr. Larry Fleinhardt:
You know that it's considered unsolvable?
Charlie Eppes:
Well, certainly people who have failed to solve it might think that." From NUMB3RS
Re: 104+ Fuel Injector Pro ? [Re: MolaKule] #5267343 11/14/19 05:05 PM
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ChrisD46 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
Have not heard of the Champion product - generally I would look for PEA as the significant additive .
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Note: The Following statement is not an endorsement, criticism, or statement of efficacy of the product below but is simply an observation of the product's chemistry:

A fuel system cleaner that appears to have the "kitchen sink" in terms of solvent chemistry, is this one:

CHAMPION ® Fuel Injector Cleaner



The Champion product does have PEA included.

PEA is a temperature activated hydrocarbon disperser. The other chemicals, even in most PEA type fuel additives, disperse and dissolve varnishes and soft carbon deposits that PEA cannot solve. PEA is not an "end-all."

Originally Posted by MolaKule
P.E.A. and Aminic Fuel Additives

PEA fuel additives are composed of specialized amines which is the Subject of this White Paper.

The primary use of PEA’s in fuel is to control intake valve and combustion chamber deposits.

Amines in various forms are also used as anti-oxidants in lubricants.


Chemistry Classification:


Amines are classified as “Aliphatic Nitrogen Compounds” because these molecules contain at least one Nitrogen atom.

The most basic amine molecule has three hydrogen atoms and one nitrogen atom linked as in:

H
/
H-N-H


One of the primary amines is 2-propanamine Isopropylamine with the formula structure:

H
/
CH3-C-CH3
/
NH2

Most amine compounds are made by the reaction of some form of ammonia, NH3, with other chemicals.

The household version of ammonia is actually a weak solution of ammonium hydroxide, or NH3 in water, H2O.

Fuel Additive:

The actual amine fuel additive is a form of polyetheramine or P.E.A and is seen in blended fuels, and in fuel additives such as Techron and other OTC fuel system additives. The basic polyetheramine is added to fuels at about 50ppm but the level of polyetheramine depends greatly on the components of the blended fuel. Recall that gasoline or diesel fuels are actually blends of various light hydrocarbons of various cuts.
Newer versions of the polyetheramine are actually esterified polyetheramines called, “esteramines.” The esteramines adds polarity to the amine.

The polyether esteramines for OTC additives are added to solvent neutral oils at levels of approximately 400 ppm. The basic polyetheramines found in blended fuels are very synergisticic with the newer esteramines.

It is believed that the polar polyetheramine’s attach to the hydrocarbon deposit and via thermodynamic activation, softens the carbon. The flowstream across the valves and the turbulence inside the combustion chamber then blow the hydrocarbon deposits to the exhaust stream.

Increases in hydrocarbon loads not only exit the exhaust stream, but can also enter the oil. It is always a good idea to change the oil after using a strong fuel system cleaner.



*Thanks Molakule - I'll take a chance at the Champion Fuel Injector Cleaner if I see it !


'17 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 5W20 QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 (50%) / 5W20 (50%) QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'07 Kia Sedona 3.8L 5W30 Castrol EP / Fram Ultra #9999
Re: 104+ Fuel Injector Pro ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5269860 11/17/19 11:04 AM
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Posts: 2,655
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ChrisD46 Offline OP
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Posts: 2,655
*I saw this 104+ Fuel Injector Pro finally at WM ($8.86) : The directions say for best results add to gas tank , run down to near empty then for best results repeat again (consecutively) - all done at the end of an OCI right before changing the oil . The company claims that modern GDI / PFI/ Turbo engines create a lot of filth during combustion and thus 104+ is formulated with this scenario in mind . You would think tier 1 gas would prevent / cure most of this while just adding a bottle of Techron at the end of an oil change would clean up anything residual which needed cleaning ?


'17 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 5W20 QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 (50%) / 5W20 (50%) QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'07 Kia Sedona 3.8L 5W30 Castrol EP / Fram Ultra #9999
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