Kreen actually works!

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by billt460
My only concern with a lot of these cleaning additives you add to the fuel, (especially some of the older ones like MMO, Berryman's, Sea Foam, and Rislone), is how do you know if they won't screw up your catalytic converter? I know they say they are, "Safe for catalytic converters". But how do you really know for certain? Is there a certain chemical or additive they contain that you should look for, and stay away from?

I've heard everywhere that both Gumout Multi System Tune-Up, as well as Techron are cat safe. But some of the others that have been around since before electricity, I'm not so sure about.

I suppose it's possible in extreme cases of additive overuse but I've personally never heard of additives destroying a Cat or 02 sensor (plug fouling, yes). My guess is that you'd have an 02 sensor code before your Cat got damaged. I'd imagine anything you pour into the tank is annihilated during combustion, leaving behind maybe some plug fouling and what's left exits the chamber in the form of gasses like CO, CO2, NOx... which the catalytic converter is designed to convert to less harmful emissions before escaping into the atmo.

The mfgs (and to some extent the public) of these products know the ingredients; I don't suppose it would be hard to employ a little chemistry to determine if harmful (to the Cat) by-products are produced as a result of combustion. Add to that, decades of empirical evidence suggests that these products are "cat safe" when used as directed. Deviate from the directions at your own peril....

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
I suppose it's possible in extreme cases of additive overuse but I've personally never heard of additives destroying a Cat or 02 sensor (plug fouling, yes). My guess is that you'd have an 02 sensor code before your Cat got damaged. I'd imagine anything you pour into the tank is annihilated during combustion, leaving behind maybe some plug fouling and what's left exits the chamber in the form of gasses like CO, CO2, NOx... which the catalytic converter is designed to convert to less harmful emissions before escaping into the atmo.

The mfgs (and to some extent the public) of these products know the ingredients; I don't suppose it would be hard to employ a little chemistry to determine if harmful (to the Cat) by-products are produced as a result of combustion. Add to that, decades of empirical evidence suggests that these products are "cat safe" when used as directed. Deviate from the directions at your own peril....

Adding the recommended rate of 1 ounce per gallon of fuel I doubt would hurt anything. (At least that is the most common dosage I could find with the bulk of these fuel additives). But Seafoam makes a spray in treatment that requires you to spray the entire can into the throttle body while the engine runs at fast idle.

Then, you are required to shut it off and allow the engine to "hot soak" for 5 to 10 minutes. After that it requires you to restart the vehicle, then "drive it aggressively". Here is a video showing the entire process.

I don't doubt that this type of treatment might help some vehicles by getting rid of deposits, etc. I just can't see it doing anything good to any emissions system. Especially those on modern cars. That said, I'm not seeing it damaging an older vehicle like the one in the video. Especially those that are old enough, and with enough miles on them that you can approach the whole thing with a, "what have I got to lose" attitude.

I'm not so concerned about "being green", as I would be about failing an emissions test in a part of the country that requires them in order to get license tags. Something like this could wind up costing you a mint to get straightened out so you could pass.

 

[D1dad]

I agree billt. Just 14oz in a 20 gallon tank threw a cel and I always filled up at the marathon by my house. But still with a pig rich tune all the top tier gas in the world wouldn't help.

 

[MrQuackers]

Why does that first gen Saturn have a 2nd gen valve cover?

 

[discountdon]

Originally Posted by billt460
My only concern with a lot of these cleaning additives you add to the fuel, (especially some of the older ones like MMO, Berryman's, Sea Foam, and Rislone), is how do you know if they won't screw up your catalytic converter? I know they say they are, "Safe for catalytic converters". But how do you really know for certain? Is there a certain chemical or additive they contain that you should look for, and stay away from?

I've heard everywhere that both Gumout Multi System Tune-Up, as well as Techron are cat safe. But some of the others that have been around since before electricity, I'm not so sure about.


I have confidence that third party additives are in fact catalytic converter safe and oxygen sensor safe when directions are followed explicity to maintain correct dosage and dilution levels. Obviously burning high concentrations of stoddard solvent isn't safe nor is burning motor oil past the rings is safe.

 

[discountdon]

Originally Posted by billt460
My only concern with a lot of these cleaning additives you add to the fuel, (especially some of the older ones like MMO, Berryman's, Sea Foam, and Rislone), is how do you know if they won't screw up your catalytic converter? I know they say they are, "Safe for catalytic converters". But how do you really know for certain? Is there a certain chemical or additive they contain that you should look for, and stay away from?

I've heard everywhere that both Gumout Multi System Tune-Up, as well as Techron are cat safe. But some of the others that have been around since before electricity, I'm not so sure about.


I have confidence that third party additives are in fact catalytic converter safe and oxygen sensor safe when directions are followed explicity to maintain correct dosage and dilution levels. Obviously burning high concentrations of stoddard solvent isn't safe nor is burning motor oil past the rings is safe.
Originally Posted by D1dad
I've ran Lucas many times because it's cheap and available just about everywhere. Ive been doing some reading on redline and it looks t be legit. Like I said, I think my oil consumption had as much to do with the fuel system as it did with junked up rings. When I say a sooty tailpipe, I'm literally talking dirtier than my power stroke diesel. It's not like the bumper is coated in black or anything, but if you rub the inside with your finger it'll come out like charcoal.


If you were running rich you would've noticed a consistent sharp decrease in MPG. Fuel injection rate is adjusted by ECU/ECM from MAF, temp, oxygen sensors, etc. Your prolonged oil burning issue was probably made worse from your addition of Lucas Oil Stabilizer as you were also burning its oil polymer tactifiers (also found in STP Blue bottle, Hy-per Lube Oil Supplement, Motor Honey...). Only way to know for sure of burning rich is looking at live OBD2 scan data.

 

[incognito_2u]

Originally Posted by krismoriah72
Would have been nice to see the filter cut open

 

[D1dad]

I wasn't clear I guess. I was running the Lucas fuel treatment not oil treatment. The only oil supplement I ever ran in my life till a few weeks ago, was LM motor oil saver and it didn't do much. I did use it in my daughters pos g6 with the ecotec sewing machine engine. She just bought the car after someone totaled her Volvo (just a car till insurance settles). I serviced it, added a half quart at 1k and she showed back up @3k and it was pretty much empty. I dumped a quart of Lucas and 2 qts of cheap Dino in it and sent her on her way. I checked it for her Saturday and almost 1k later it's still full so it's doing it's job I guess.


Originally Posted by discountdon
Originally Posted by billt460
My only concern with a lot of these cleaning additives you add to the fuel, (especially some of the older ones like MMO, Berryman's, Sea Foam, and Rislone), is how do you know if they won't screw up your catalytic converter? I know they say they are, "Safe for catalytic converters". But how do you really know for certain? Is there a certain chemical or additive they contain that you should look for, and stay away from?

I've heard everywhere that both Gumout Multi System Tune-Up, as well as Techron are cat safe. But some of the others that have been around since before electricity, I'm not so sure about.


I have confidence that third party additives are in fact catalytic converter safe and oxygen sensor safe when directions are followed explicity to maintain correct dosage and dilution levels. Obviously burning high concentrations of stoddard solvent isn't safe nor is burning motor oil past the rings is safe.
Originally Posted by D1dad
I've ran Lucas many times because it's cheap and available just about everywhere. Ive been doing some reading on redline and it looks t be legit. Like I said, I think my oil consumption had as much to do with the fuel system as it did with junked up rings. When I say a sooty tailpipe, I'm literally talking dirtier than my power stroke diesel. It's not like the bumper is coated in black or anything, but if you rub the inside with your finger it'll come out like charcoal.


If you were running rich you would've noticed a consistent sharp decrease in MPG. Fuel injection rate is adjusted by ECU/ECM from MAF, temp, oxygen sensors, etc. Your prolonged oil burning issue was probably made worse from your addition of Lucas Oil Stabilizer as you were also burning its oil polymer tactifiers (also found in STP Blue bottle, Hy-per Lube Oil Supplement, Motor Honey...). Only way to know for sure of burning rich is looking at live OBD2 scan data.

 

[D1dad]

Update. 1500 miles on the car and I would have added a qt by now and it's used around 8 ounces so I'm happy. When my son brings the car back at thanksgiving I think I'll do a kreen purge according to their instructions. I believe I'm on the right track of curing this 10yr problem. At this rate it will use around 2/3 of a qt for the 3750 maintenance schedule I keep on the car as opposed to 3, which means the car wouldn't be almost out of oil if it wasn't checked.

 

[ad244]

Originally Posted by D1dad
Update. 1500 miles on the car and I would have added a qt by now and it's used around 8 ounces so I'm happy. When my son brings the car back at thanksgiving I think I'll do a kreen purge according to their instructions. I believe I'm on the right track of curing this 10yr problem. At this rate it will use around 2/3 of a qt for the 3750 maintenance schedule I keep on the car as opposed to 3, which means the car wouldn't be almost out of oil if it wasn't checked.


Very nice, thanks for the update

 

[D1dad]

The more I think about the issue all along I believe it was fuel dilution but not sure how or why? When I check the same 5-30 in my 08 impala the oil stays on the dipstick meaning thicker. The Altima oil has always been thinner with hints of a fuel smell. How does this happen?

 

[kschachn]

You can't determine fuel dilution by dipstick divination or by smell. You need to have the oil analyzed by a lab that uses gas chromatography.

 

[D1dad]

Maybe but within 1k or so the oil is watery thin and reeks of fuel. No other car I've owned has had that issue. No coolant usage so something is thinning the oil.

 

[kschachn]

Well along that same line it is also not possible to determine the actual viscosity by visual inspection. Especially if you are draining it hot then it is supposed to be thin. If you are suspecting fuel dilution then the only way to really determine that is by a proper analysis, not guessing. On my old Sienna it always smells of fuel but a GC analysis showed it had less than 1% fuel dilution. My other cars don't smell as bad so I also thought it was worse on this vehicle. But an analysis showed it was not.

 

[D1dad]

I spoke to soon. He put another 600 miles on it and it was down a half qt. When he comes back for thanksgiving I'm gonna do a piston soak/kreen purge and if that doesn't do it I'm putting a new engine in it. I found an 09 with 30k on it for a good price and have a GM tech in the family who'll swap it out for $600. I'm done fighting with this thing, it's been 10 yrs of oil consumption that makes me wonder if this car has the dreaded precat issue that was supposedly fixed. I'm ordering a new one and gathering up the fluids I'll need if this last ditch effort doesn't work.



Originally Posted by D1dad
Update. 1500 miles on the car and I would have added a qt by now and it's used around 8 ounces so I'm happy. When my son brings the car back at thanksgiving I think I'll do a kreen purge according to their instructions. I believe I'm on the right track of curing this 10yr problem. At this rate it will use around 2/3 of a qt for the 3750 maintenance schedule I keep on the car as opposed to 3, which means the car wouldn't be almost out of oil if it wasn't checked.

 

[spasm3]

Kreen works well for cleaning, but it can't fix worn rings or low tension rings. I tried it in saturns, they would be clean, but still used oil. Piston lands clean on tear down.

 

[Jetsfan421]

Originally Posted by spasm3
Kreen works well for cleaning, but it can't fix worn rings or low tension rings. I tried it in saturns, they would be clean, but still used oil. Piston lands clean on tear down.

Once the carbon packing wears down the sides of the cylinder wall nothing but a rebuild can slow the oil consumption. One could try restore engine additive, but your running on borrowed time at that point. It's better to keep an engine clean than try and play catch up.

 

[D1dad]

It's definitely not a matter of playing catch up. I bought the car new and often serviced it at less than severe maintenance which was 3750. Never did it go over. The cars had a sooty tailpipe and used oil since it was new but never enough to satisfy Nissan, which was 1qt per 1k. Oh well, new engine time. I keep my stuff immaculate and the cars pretty mint for the yr so definitely worth the swap.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by D1dad
It's definitely not a matter of playing catch up. I bought the car new and often serviced it at less than severe maintenance which was 3750. Never did it go over. The cars had a sooty tailpipe and used oil since it was new but never enough to satisfy Nissan, which was 1qt per 1k. Oh well, new engine time. I keep my stuff immaculate and the cars pretty mint for the yr so definitely worth the swap.

Can't blame you for trying but sometimes there's only so much you can do. If you can get that new to you engine for a good price (30k on an '09 is a find) and you have a family member that'll put it in and the car is otherwise worth keeping.. that's not a bad way to go.

 

[D1dad]

What was saturns issue with consumption? My son in laws sister has one with almost 300k on it and uses a quart every 1k but the thing runs like a Swiss Watch. She just drove it from ohio to Miami and back and I didn't figure she'd make it but not so much as a hiccup. She was given the car and was told it's always used a qt per 1k and it's stayed true to the word.

Originally Posted by spasm3
Kreen works well for cleaning, but it can't fix worn rings or low tension rings. I tried it in saturns, they would be clean, but still used oil. Piston lands clean on tear down.