Recent Topics
Costco Instant rebate for M1
by Joephu - 11/22/19 11:25 AM
Serpentine belt
by Grambo - 11/22/19 10:50 AM
My 2016 Ford Fiesta Failure
by Mr_Luke - 11/22/19 10:37 AM
Starter Tool set - hand tools for professional work?
by btanchors - 11/22/19 10:20 AM
Acceptable amount of time to get up to speed?
by ls1mike - 11/22/19 09:35 AM
Paint question
by supton - 11/22/19 09:31 AM
SUV tires vs passenger car tires
by Ded Mazai - 11/22/19 09:00 AM
Crysler Crossfire Pro/Con?
by tc1446 - 11/22/19 08:54 AM
Possible to balance a bent steel wheel?
by johnnyh55 - 11/22/19 06:33 AM
Tablet question.
by 007 - 11/22/19 04:29 AM
dexos 1 vs dexos 2
by avi1777 - 11/22/19 02:33 AM
I had to lay it down...
by 02SE - 11/22/19 01:22 AM
Costco Car Buying
by rrretiree7 - 11/22/19 01:06 AM
Tesla Cybertruck
by E365 - 11/21/19 10:30 PM
Tesla Truck Reveal
by Aero540T - 11/21/19 10:06 PM
DIY Engine Rebuild Costs
by Spetz - 11/21/19 10:01 PM
Killer rod
by P10crew - 11/21/19 09:51 PM
Newest Members
hunter9296, Corslayth, oildud, Kylefl1, JDee71
69938 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
100 registered members (53' Stude, 28oz, 928, 92saturnsl2, Aero540T, 8 invisible), 2,221 guests, and 22 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics297,774
Posts5,122,265
Members69,938
Most Online3,589
Nov 2nd, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: 2019 CB300R and Delo 400 XLE 10w30 [Re: bulwnkl] #5242594 10/17/19 05:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
B
Bonz Online Content
Online Content
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
That looks like a flow rate chart based on a specific engine and measurement, did not look like it was a model or theory.

The person doing the post used the word modeling, not the folks doing the test.

It has been shown that a thinner oil versus a thicker oil carries more heat away from the engine. I'm not saying oil temperatures may not be different between them but for engine parts cooling effect a thinner oil from the same pump will carry heat away better because it does glow more volume over time as shown by the test in the link.

If what you are saying is accurate, then a thick oil in winter time would get to the engine parts just as fast as a thinner oil on a freezing day... Is that a disputed model versus a reality as well? A thinner oil will have more flow volume and with the turbulence in the oil as one factor, all things equal, it will carry heat away better.

Or a machine shop could use thicker oil versus a thinner oil when cooling cutting tips and such, because the oil would flow at the same rate and be in touch with the cutting tip longer and therefore cool better. Is that a reality? I don't think it is.

Find a source that says thicker oil cools an engine in good repair better versus a thinner oil all else equal and post it up. I'd like to see it and I will happily recant.



Re: 2019 CB300R and Delo 400 XLE 10w30 [Re: Jay] #5242757 10/17/19 08:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,954
B
bulwnkl Online Content
Online Content
B
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,954
I'm not making the claim you've asserted.
Oil can't carry heat "away from the engine," because it doesn't leave the engine. It's a closed system. I think you're talking about reaching equilibrium faster, like sunruh said.


I use speech recognition frequently. Please excuse any consequent grammatical or typographical errors.
Re: 2019 CB300R and Delo 400 XLE 10w30 [Re: bulwnkl] #5242853 10/17/19 11:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
B
Bonz Online Content
Online Content
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
I'm becoming more clear on what you are sharing, and I apologize if I haven't been more clear how I am saying things.

What I'm saying is the engine will run cooler in hotter conditions via the cooling system as thinner oil takes heat away from engine parts it comes in contact with more easily.

Oil flow speed would have to be ridiculously high for it to not take heat away in the sense we are talking. That will never come into play comparing a lighter oil vs a heavier oil that are still within the specifications or common sense parameters for an engine. I have read the turbulence of lighter oil makes a difference in the ability of oil to carry away heat. The lighter oil splashes around more in the sump and "rolls" more as it flows through passages (for lack of a better term) than a heavier oil. More oil is exposed to the surfaces it is designed to come in contact with.

The cooling system takes heat away from the block to be deposited in the atmosphere via the radiator. When there is less heat in the block because the oil is performing a better cooling function, the cooling system will take longer to reach the point where the fan comes on in hotter temperatures. It's not a coincidence that I have witnessed and observed this on a number of occasions.

It would be safe to say a lighter oil stores that heat in the sump to a degree which is not harmful in the context we are talking about relative to an engine reaching too high of an operating temperature as determined by the cooling system.

Oil does a tremendous function of cooling the undersides of the pistons and the skirts. Thinner oil is better at this than thicker oil, I haven't seen anything to the contrary. This puts less stress on the cooling system and it goes longer in hotter conditions from my observation, all else equal, until the cooling system seeks relief via the fan.

That's where I come to say that thinner oil does a better job at cooling (carrying heat from) the engine (engine parts). Carrying heat away from said engine parts that are cooled by the cooling system allows the engine run to cooler in hotter conditions.








Re: 2019 CB300R and Delo 400 XLE 10w30 [Re: Jay] #5243175 10/18/19 09:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 132
B
bonjo Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 132
Maybe mobile FS has less Viscosity modifier additives so it doesn’t sheer as quickly

Re: 2019 CB300R and Delo 400 XLE 10w30 [Re: bonjo] #5243240 10/18/19 10:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
B
Bonz Online Content
Online Content
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
I have read on this site where folks speculate the Mobil MC specific oil has a decent ester content which would indicate better shear resistance to my knowledge. It would need less viscosity index improver to do the same job over the weight ranges the oil is rated at.

Keep in mind VI improvers don't make the oil thicker as it gets hot. They simply keep the base oil from thinning out to a greater or lesser extent depending on the amount of VI improvers.

Normal synthetics that use highly refined crude oil, typically hold their grade better because they use less viscosity index improvers to boost the base oil. The level of VI improvers combined with the quality of the base oil across the oil brands is a variable matrix and spectrum of what you will get once the oil is put into service and run for a while.

I still don't understand the mechanism by which the Mobil 1 20w50 V-Twin oil thickens in air-cooled non-shared sumps. I was very impressed how it stayed right in the middle of grade after just over 5,000 miles in my shared sump ZRX 1200. It had some high temperature slow speed miles over the course of last summer going up slow mountain passes behind traffic and slow speeds through some of the higher elevation mountain towns in midday heat. As well as lots of high temperature riding through various towns and traffic in the front range were temperatures approached 100 deg f at over 6000'-8000' elevation.







Re: 2019 CB300R and Delo 400 XLE 10w30 [Re: Bonz] #5245670 10/21/19 07:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,374
A
alarmguy Offline
Offline
A
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,374
Originally Posted by Bonz
I have read on this site where folks speculate the Mobil MC specific oil has a decent ester content ...



Right or wrong, that is my problem with forums, speculation somehow turns to "truth" as it gets repeated down the line and honestly, I THINK I have seen a few Ester oils over the years (I could be wrong) and they still had shearing.
Whatever Mobile 1 adds (Amsoil too but lesser degree) bothers me but doesn't matter, its oil, does is job like all the others and if you have a shared sump seems like a good idea?
Never tried it when I had shared sump bikes, I always just changed the oil at 3,000 miles or so..


Last edited by alarmguy; 10/21/19 07:10 AM.

14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: 2019 CB300R and Delo 400 XLE 10w30 [Re: alarmguy] #5246420 10/21/19 07:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
B
Bonz Online Content
Online Content
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
Good stuff alarmguy, I always appreciate your perspective.

If I was changing at 3,000 miles, I'd go with a conventional that has an additive package similar the Mobil 1 MC specific oils. I like a good dose of zinc and phosphorus and also I think boron is a good anti wear agent. Ester oils, based on what I can find, typically don't shear as much/fast because the quality of the base oil necessitates less viscosity index improver.

What I have experienced with conventional oils is shift quality falls off. I like that I get 5,000 miles out of Mobil 1 and change it because that is about a riding season and also the Kawasaki recommended interval and not because shift quality has fallen off vs. 3,000 miles out of a conventional oil when experiencing less precise shifting.

With that said, I am going to stretch the M1 10w40 4T to 6,000 miles this next summer and see what I get.

Re: 2019 CB300R and Delo 400 XLE 10w30 [Re: Jay] #5246815 10/22/19 08:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,028
S
sunruh Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,028
very very few oils have stayed in grade once they enter the MixMaster of Doom and do a race (gncc/harescramble/enduro). out of nearly 90 uoa's, i think i can count on my fingers those that did. i dont think a single uoa test has 8 motor hours on it.

Last edited by sunruh; 10/22/19 08:08 AM.

motorcycle oil myth buster
Re: 2019 CB300R and Delo 400 XLE 10w30 [Re: sunruh] #5247546 10/22/19 07:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
B
Bonz Online Content
Online Content
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
Thanks for sharing that, I can see living at 10,000+ RPM would be really hard on the oil in terms of maintaining it's viscosity. Especially with the on/off loading of the gears and the force they are subject to under constant wfo acceleration. Would you say the load on the gears is the main contributor to viscosity breakdown in racing as compared to the RPM itself? Meaning running at a high RPM in and of itself isn't necessarily as hard on the oil as the forces put on the gears during racing.

Re: 2019 CB300R and Delo 400 XLE 10w30 [Re: Jay] #5248000 10/23/19 11:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,028
S
sunruh Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,028
well i doubt many run the motor to 10k plus in neutral.
some may rev to impress but ehhhh its no load

when im at 14k and in gear (usually only 1st or 2nd)...pretty sure both the motor and tranny are tearing that nice oil to shreads

think about this.

at 14k...thats 233 revolutions per second.
which means the valves are openinging 116 times in that 1 second
thats some load on the buckets n cam ramps
not to mention those rod ends
all that have oil to prevent metal on metal contact

but its more the gearbox that chews those nice long chains into short ones


motorcycle oil myth buster
Re: 2019 CB300R and Delo 400 XLE 10w30 [Re: sunruh] #5251408 10/27/19 02:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
B
Bonz Online Content
Online Content
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
it is amazing when you think about how many times the valve is open and closing in a second and the stress not only the oil undertakes but the components in the valve train.

Page 2 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™