2019 CB300R and Delo 400 XLE 10w30

Jay

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The lab was Western States Caterpillar. Newest test on the left column. Factory fill on the right column. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/s...PmSY9HaaF05Nfg0fGE1wWr0XjqfpJq2xFQ=w2400 The only noteworthy thing about the factory fill, IMO, was that it had sheared to a mid 20-weight in only 750 miles. The recommended viscosity is 10w30 and I assume that's what the factory-fill was. Shifting and clutch engagement was significantly smoother with the Delo and stayed smooth throughout the interval. I'm surprised that the Delo, too, sheared to a mid 20-weight; all the more surprised since the starting viscosity, according to the spec sheet, is 11.9 cSt--near the upper range of 30-weight. Despite this, I'm happy with the Delo 400 and I think I'll stick with it. I'm thinking of extending the interval out to 8000 miles. Honda recommends an 8000 mi or 1 yr interval.
 
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Jay

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Originally Posted by Chris142
Have you considered a 15w-40?
No. I don't think the 20 weight is a problem. I'm just indicating surprise that the Delo sheared down. In my 50 years of motorcycling, adding new crankcase oil results in markedly smoother shifting, at first, and then the shifting gets notchier and notchier as the miles add up. The shifting was butter smooth the whole length of the interval this time. From a shifting and smooth clutch engagement standpoint, this oil is the best I've tried. I ran Delvac1 5w40 in my VFR, and got excellent wear numbers with it, but it wasn't a standout as far as smooth shifting goes.
 
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5w40 losses grades quickly in a shared sump. and in 2 cases all indicators point to it breaking tranny gear teeth. i also own a vfr800
 
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Originally Posted by Jay
... The only noteworthy thing about the factory fill, IMO, was that it had sheared to a mid 20-weight in only 750 miles. The recommended viscosity is 10w30 and I assume that's what the factory-fill was. Shifting and clutch engagement was significantly smoother with the Delo and stayed smooth throughout the interval. I'm surprised that the Delo, too, sheared to a mid 20-weight; all the more surprised since the starting viscosity, according to the spec sheet, is 11.9 cSt--near the upper range of 30-weight. Despite this, I'm happy with the Delo 400 and I think I'll stick with it. I'm thinking of extending the interval out to 8000 miles. Honda recommends an 8000 mi or 1 yr interval.
It sounds like you have a winner with the Delo. You used it for a few thousand miles and your shifting stayed smooth. You can't ask for more and what most people with shared sumps wish for. As far as shearing, I dont consider that shearing, you got a 30 weight oil that ends up in the "mid" 20s, technically a 20 after a few thousand miles, that is a good result and no oil will do any better at any price so enjoy your smooth shifting as long as it lasts, once it gets rough, change it, its cheap. If your thinking about running to 8000 miles but want nice shifting, change the oil at 4000, leave the filter for 8000. BTW, the manufacturer knows the oil ends up as a 20 and its OCI is based with that knowledge. If you ran in a super hot climate, 15/40 as someone mentions is perfectly reasonable. 5w40 oil does not belong in any motorcycle, more so a shared sump, I have no clue why people do it and the manufacturer does not recommend it.
 
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I would respectfully disagree that no oil would do any better. I have run 10w40 Mobil 1 4T racing in my ZRX 1200 for almost five thousand miles and it sheared out of grade by maybe half a point, and it is a light 40 wt to begin with. So I don't consider that oil is prone to shear. Mobil 1 20w50 v twin stayed smack-dab in the middle of grade after over 5,000 miles in my most recent ZRX oci. I'm not advocating for 20w50 in the CB300R engine however the 10w40 4T would be worth a try and especially if you extend the oci to the Honda recommended 8,000 miles. BMW recommends 5w40 in their liquid cooled boxer twins with a shared sump.
 
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^^ Its all good ^^ I will simply restate that the OP is happy with the performance of the Delos oil, I encourage him its a great choice, none proven to be better when it comes wear by anyone posting in here and it is the proper viscosity as HONDA specifies. I dont know about others but I think honda knows what oil should run in its engines and in this case a 10/30 that they know ends up as a oil in the 20s and a "robust" upper range 20s. Same as BMW requiring a 5/40 (yes I will be more careful making blanket statements on that subject) anyway, BMW knows their oil shears a more then 25% in just 2000 miles or so, in the new boxers. Just like Honda knows the 10/30 will shear to the 20s BMW knows the 5/40 will shear far greater percentage wise then the Delo 10/30. The OP has a completely different bike as you and your oil goes out of grade too. Good point on the Mobile 1, same goes for Amsoil. No one is quite sure why those oils do not shear as much BUT to me is also a questionable additive in them to attain that, its also been questioned in the motorcycle press some years back, meaning put those oils in a non shared sump bike like a Harley Touring bike and the oil will actually thicken up a grade, some question if it would eventually turn to sludge in an engine not properly maintained. But again, another moot point, the OP is looking to follow Hondas 10/30 requirement and if it shifts good no reason to look further. If shifting was concern and he wanted to go up to a 40 that is fine but from what he posts, why? The grade of an oil and whether it shears or not has nothing to do if an oil is any good at preventing wear in a motorcycle if following the manufacturers recommendation nothing wrong with looking for something that doesn't shear as much and he seems to have found it in the Delo. Also the 10/30 will shear far, far less then the 5/40 percentage wise and I am sure Honda knows that as well. Some forget to keep in mind the more heavy the oil, the more hot internal engine parts run, such as engine and transmission bearings. Again, Im not saying going up a grade will do any damage, not at all but the OP is happy with the shifting so I am saying nothing at all wrong with Hondas recommendation of a 10/30 which is more stable with its tight spread. ( I bet Honda knows that too! :o) *L*
 
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Definitely the Mobil 1 20w50 thickens up in the non-shared sump, shows that in about every analysis on this site. I am interested in what the additive or composition of the base oil is that causes this, since you mentioned it. Because Amsoil and Redline do it as well makes me think it has something to do with ester in it? Although I have no idea why ester based oils would do that. Looks like Redline does a similar thing in cases, along with the Amsoil you mention. You are spot-on that a thinner oil will carry heat away faster than a thicker oil because it is flowing faster. I have noticed in the summer months my ZRX 1200 does run hotter by virtue of when the fan comes on in similar riding conditions when running a 20w50 versus a 10w40. I ran Delo 15w40 in the ZRX for an oci, had a huge dose of boron in it. I see the 10w30 does not. Just an observation. However I do believe boron is a good anti-wear additive through reading I have done on this site. I like the Mobil 1 MC oils because they do have higher boron, and the zinc content is decent as well. Since most wear occurs at startup I am going to stick with the Mobil 1 10w40 moving forward in my ZRX. Yeah, run what Honda calls for and it's going to be fine, Delo is a very good oil.
 
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^^^ Yeah, I dont get it either, makes me leary of those oils for that reason. Redline too huh. Yet, I guess if you are looking to maintain good shifting for a shared sump bike maybe it makes sense. If need be. I use Mystic JT8 15w50 semi syn in my Road King and it does not bother me in the least that it is a "lighter" 50 weight when starting off and maybe by the time it gets changed a higher 40. I rather that for the heat reason then thickening up to a 60. Again, the Road King is not a shared sump and wow, its hot here (90+)in central South Carolina for a solid 4 months a year. Good observation on the heat and fan on your ZRX 1200. Many years ago I learned about the heat and bearings and stuff right here in these forums and others. Im a fan of the Kawi sport bikes and love the sport tourer - Concours. If I had the option of a second bike I would have something like it in my garage. my wife rides with me a lot, sport bikes scare her plus she is the passenger so I am not sure I could blame her and be in her place by sitting on the back of any bike, comfort wise on long trips too. Just bought her the chopped tour back and wrap around backrest this year for her comfort on long trips. This may sound creepy but she does at times dose off on the back of the bike, if a long trip, we laugh about it, I guess many people do???
 
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More to the point, how does one oil flow faster than another through the positive-displacement oil pump? There's a difference between _generating_ more heat in a higher-viscosity oil because more power is required to pump it, and _eliminating_ more extant heat.
 
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^^ not sure about the two posts above this and who the questions are directed at ^^^ But thicker oil will have bearings running hotter. and .. Some motorcycle engines, even if they dont have a cooler do have designed into the engine a plate before/above the oil pan that the oil will run down before its dropped into the pan, to help cool the oil down before getting back to the pump and being pumped back to the engine. (Harley Davidson does)
 
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Thicker oil creates higher pressure all else equal in a properly functioning engine. Higher pressure creates more resistance to flow. There is less turbulence within the heavy oil itself thus exposing less oil to engine surfaces to carry away heat. Over the course of time it adds up to quite a difference in total flow with a heavier oil. Less flow equals less oil to carry away the heat. See this link from this site. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4453712/Thicker_oil_for_hotter_ambient
 
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That chart was a model, not a test result. The oil pump delivers exactly the same volume of oil regardless the bottle label. Too, faster flow past any given point in the engine results in less exposure time, meaning less time available to soak up heat. So, a higher theoretical flow rate would carry away a smaller amount of heat at a faster rate. Then you have to dump (reject) that heat from the pan or oil cooler or wherever. It's a closed system, so flow rate (even if it were different) is neither increasing or decreasing heat transfer apart from momentary transient situations.
 
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That looks like a flow rate chart based on a specific engine and measurement, did not look like it was a model or theory. The person doing the post used the word modeling, not the folks doing the test. It has been shown that a thinner oil versus a thicker oil carries more heat away from the engine. I'm not saying oil temperatures may not be different between them but for engine parts cooling effect a thinner oil from the same pump will carry heat away better because it does glow more volume over time as shown by the test in the link. If what you are saying is accurate, then a thick oil in winter time would get to the engine parts just as fast as a thinner oil on a freezing day... Is that a disputed model versus a reality as well? A thinner oil will have more flow volume and with the turbulence in the oil as one factor, all things equal, it will carry heat away better. Or a machine shop could use thicker oil versus a thinner oil when cooling cutting tips and such, because the oil would flow at the same rate and be in touch with the cutting tip longer and therefore cool better. Is that a reality? I don't think it is. Find a source that says thicker oil cools an engine in good repair better versus a thinner oil all else equal and post it up. I'd like to see it and I will happily recant.
 
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I'm not making the claim you've asserted. Oil can't carry heat "away from the engine," because it doesn't leave the engine. It's a closed system. I think you're talking about reaching equilibrium faster, like sunruh said.
 
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I'm becoming more clear on what you are sharing, and I apologize if I haven't been more clear how I am saying things. What I'm saying is the engine will run cooler in hotter conditions via the cooling system as thinner oil takes heat away from engine parts it comes in contact with more easily. Oil flow speed would have to be ridiculously high for it to not take heat away in the sense we are talking. That will never come into play comparing a lighter oil vs a heavier oil that are still within the specifications or common sense parameters for an engine. I have read the turbulence of lighter oil makes a difference in the ability of oil to carry away heat. The lighter oil splashes around more in the sump and "rolls" more as it flows through passages (for lack of a better term) than a heavier oil. More oil is exposed to the surfaces it is designed to come in contact with. The cooling system takes heat away from the block to be deposited in the atmosphere via the radiator. When there is less heat in the block because the oil is performing a better cooling function, the cooling system will take longer to reach the point where the fan comes on in hotter temperatures. It's not a coincidence that I have witnessed and observed this on a number of occasions. It would be safe to say a lighter oil stores that heat in the sump to a degree which is not harmful in the context we are talking about relative to an engine reaching too high of an operating temperature as determined by the cooling system. Oil does a tremendous function of cooling the undersides of the pistons and the skirts. Thinner oil is better at this than thicker oil, I haven't seen anything to the contrary. This puts less stress on the cooling system and it goes longer in hotter conditions from my observation, all else equal, until the cooling system seeks relief via the fan. That's where I come to say that thinner oil does a better job at cooling (carrying heat from) the engine (engine parts). Carrying heat away from said engine parts that are cooled by the cooling system allows the engine run to cooler in hotter conditions.
 
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I have read on this site where folks speculate the Mobil MC specific oil has a decent ester content which would indicate better shear resistance to my knowledge. It would need less viscosity index improver to do the same job over the weight ranges the oil is rated at. Keep in mind VI improvers don't make the oil thicker as it gets hot. They simply keep the base oil from thinning out to a greater or lesser extent depending on the amount of VI improvers. Normal synthetics that use highly refined crude oil, typically hold their grade better because they use less viscosity index improvers to boost the base oil. The level of VI improvers combined with the quality of the base oil across the oil brands is a variable matrix and spectrum of what you will get once the oil is put into service and run for a while. I still don't understand the mechanism by which the Mobil 1 20w50 V-Twin oil thickens in air-cooled non-shared sumps. I was very impressed how it stayed right in the middle of grade after just over 5,000 miles in my shared sump ZRX 1200. It had some high temperature slow speed miles over the course of last summer going up slow mountain passes behind traffic and slow speeds through some of the higher elevation mountain towns in midday heat. As well as lots of high temperature riding through various towns and traffic in the front range were temperatures approached 100 deg f at over 6000'-8000' elevation.
 
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