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In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? #5239863 10/15/19 03:05 AM
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ChrisD46 Offline OP
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The more I read and research - the more I come back to the defacto standard of the synthetic oil 5K mile OCI with a good oil filter as being about best if you want to keep a vehicle running past 250K miles .

*First , TBN is not the be all - end all in determining how long you should go with an OCI .

*Next , by 5K miles of mixed driving (majority of what we all do) the oil is getting dirty , more abrasive with deposits , fuel dilution starts climbing , etc. so the oil should be replaced .

*Vehicle manufacturers are in business to sell new vehicles - the 7.5K to 10K mile OCI recommendations are only listed in the OM to get you to 100K miles (in most cases) .

*Castrol EDGE EP and M1 EP stating they can do a 20K OCI is marketing (and dangerous marketing at that) only possibly realistic if you do 100% high way travel ; At most I would run a 6K - 7K mile OCI .

*More vehicles today (and growing) are GDI / Turbo engines where by the 5K Mile OCI protects against fuel dilution and soot (abrasive) to keep levels down to an acceptable level .

*European BMW , Mercedes , etc. OCI's of 10K or more just can't be good for ultimate engine up keep long term unless driven on the German Autobahn full time .

*With previous synthetic oil 6K + OCI's with Sea Foam added last 150 miles - oil would get noticeably darker ; at synthetic oil 5K mile OCI's Sea Foam added last 150 miles showed little oil darkening .

* With a synthetic oil 5K OCI I notice less metal shavings in my plastic oil drain catcher afterwards versus 6K + OCI's .

*Disclaimer* : Your mileage can and will vary from what I have listed - however in modern engines using an approx. 5 qrt. sump I believe the 5K OCI is about the best recipe with a synthetic oil for keeping an engine running well past 250K miles ...


'17 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 5W20 QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 (50%) / 5W20 (50%) QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'07 Kia Sedona 3.8L 5W30 Castrol EP / Fram Ultra #9999
Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5239866 10/15/19 03:23 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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popcorn I agree, at least for my user pattern. I stretched my Liberty out to 6K miles based on UOA results, and established 5K was perfect for my Rubicon, again based on UOA results. Having said that I plan on dropping the Liberty back to 5K miles which would set me up on a spring/fall OCI regime and give me a thousand mile cushion. 4,000 miles is all I can run my van due to a lot of short trips.

One thing for sure, if someone from my neck of the woods was trying to sell me a used car and showed me they changed their oil at 10K intervals I'd pass on the car. 7,500 mile limits would be my max, and only if the car was what I considered perfect. I don't care what oil/filter combo they're using. I think many people on this board would agree, although be hesitant to comment. hide


God Bless Our Troops

Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: demarpaint] #5239870 10/15/19 03:51 AM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
popcorn I agree, at least for my user pattern. I stretched my Liberty out to 6K miles based on UOA results, and established 5K was perfect for my Rubicon, again based on UOA results. Having said that I plan on dropping the Liberty back to 5K miles which would set me up on a spring/fall OCI regime and give me a thousand mile cushion. 4,000 miles is all I can run my van due to a lot of short trips.

One thing for sure, if someone from my neck of the woods was trying to sell me a used car and showed me they changed their oil at 10K intervals I'd pass on the car. 7,500 mile limits would be my max, and only if the car was what I considered perfect. I don't care what oil/filter combo they're using. I think many people on this board would agree, although be hesitant to comment. hide

Right there with ya... maybe if my engine was more like a piece of industrial machinery sealed and spinning at low, fixed rpms with a static load, sure I might consider changing the lubricant based on hrs/days. But it's not.. the load and rpms can vary dramatically, contaminant ingress is a constant battle and all this contributes to unpredictable wear rates. This leads me to want to change out the lubricant more often, not less.

But to each his own... it's a free country, do what one wants with their ride but as for me, I'm good with my 5k mile oci's.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 10/15/19 03:56 AM.
Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5239872 10/15/19 03:59 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by demarpaint
popcorn I agree, at least for my user pattern. I stretched my Liberty out to 6K miles based on UOA results, and established 5K was perfect for my Rubicon, again based on UOA results. Having said that I plan on dropping the Liberty back to 5K miles which would set me up on a spring/fall OCI regime and give me a thousand mile cushion. 4,000 miles is all I can run my van due to a lot of short trips.

One thing for sure, if someone from my neck of the woods was trying to sell me a used car and showed me they changed their oil at 10K intervals I'd pass on the car. 7,500 mile limits would be my max, and only if the car was what I considered perfect. I don't care what oil/filter combo they're using. I think many people on this board would agree, although be hesitant to comment. hide

Right there with ya... maybe if my engine was more like a piece of industrial machinery sealed and spinning at low, fixed rpms with a static load, sure I might consider changing the lubricant based on hrs/days. But it's not.. the load and rpms can vary dramatically, contaminant ingress is a constant battle and all this contributes to unpredictable wear rates. This leads me to want to change out the lubricant more often, not less.

But to each his own... it's a free country, do what one wants with their ride but as for me, I'm good with my 5k mile oci's.

thumbsup I knew I was in good company. I've had this conversation with a good Bitog friend more than once over the years. Our thoughts on the topic are identical.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: demarpaint] #5239873 10/15/19 04:00 AM
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bbhero Offline
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Well I am on my way to 285,000 miles and the longest I have gone was 6,800 miles on Pennzoil Ultra. I agree with you on what you have stated earlier on this topic.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Cam2 Dexos1 Gen 2 5w30 Wix 57356 Oil filter
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5239877 10/15/19 04:17 AM
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RyanY Online Content
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As noted above, the long vs short OCI depends on many factors. I do 5k with my van because lots of short trips and stop/go traffic. The maintenance minder is also pretty close to that and usually shows 20% oil life at 5k. In contrast, my Cad gets 3k OCI, as suggested at http://www.northstarperformance.com/36services.php,
because it is known to be sensitive to oil problems. I realize that in both cases the full syn oil has a lot of life left when I change, but I prefer to err on the safe side. Besides, changing oil is a good reason to get out of the house for a while...


2007 Cadillac CTS 3.6L >127k miles (Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 + ACDelco PF2129G)

2012 Honda Odyssey EX-L >103k miles (Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 + Fram XG7317)
Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: demarpaint] #5239879 10/15/19 04:28 AM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by demarpaint

thumbsup I knew I was in good company. I've had this conversation with a good Bitog friend more than once over the years. Our thoughts on the topic are identical.

I think the OP makes a good point in that most passenger cars have smallish sumps. Now if I had a 12 or 13qt sump where the primary filter is the size of a Titan rocket alongside bypass filtration and the majority of my miles were highway...sure, i might consider 10, 15 or even 20k intervals. But most of my miles, aside from the summer months, are NOT highway.. they're city driving. Stop/go...to the store and back. To the kids football game and back.. that's it. And while I don't have a DI engine, blow by and some fuel dilution is still a very real "thing" for even the venerable port injected engine.😉

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 10/15/19 04:31 AM.
Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5239880 10/15/19 04:31 AM
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Propflux01 Offline
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I do it for the above reasons, and its really easy to keep the change intervals easy to remember. 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k, etc.


2014 Hyundai Elantra
2014 Hyundai Elantra GT

A 55 Gallon Drum And A Shovel Can Solve A lot of Life's Little "Problems"
Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5239884 10/15/19 04:36 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by demarpaint

thumbsup I knew I was in good company. I've had this conversation with a good Bitog friend more than once over the years. Our thoughts on the topic are identical.

I think the OP makes a good point in that most passenger cars have smallish sumps. Now if I had a 12 or 13qt sump where the primary filter is the size of a Titan rocket alongside bypass filtration and the majority of my miles were highway...sure, i might consider 10, 15 or even 20k intervals. But most of my miles, aside from the summer months, are NOT highway.. they're city driving. Stop/go...to the store and back. To the kids football game and back.. that's it. And while I don't have a DI engine, blow by and some fuel dilution is still a very real "thing" for even the venerable port injected engine.😉

The OP made some great points. I don't own a DI engine either, that imo is a real game changer. I agree on your sump size and bypass filtration comments too. But that always begs the question of how many people fall into that category with their daily drivers? Not many.....


God Bless Our Troops

Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5239885 10/15/19 04:37 AM
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Lately I settled in with 5,000 miles on my 6.0 liter Chev. I’ve averaged 7,000 miles over the past 185,000 miles and 11 years. It doesn’t burn oil but is plenty black at 5,000 miles. Some say the soot in the system makes no difference but no one has been able to show me anything scientific other than Base Number. And no, not interested in arguing. I‘ve got nearly 200,000 miles on a vehicle I’ve owned since new and I just want the best chance in getting to 250,000 or 300,000 miles. Whether it’s 14 oil changes or 20 oil changes in the next 100,000 miles, it makes no difference. I like changing oil. smile

Last edited by Snagglefoot; 10/15/19 04:43 AM.

If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: Snagglefoot] #5239894 10/15/19 05:05 AM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Lately I settled in with 5,000 miles on my 6.0 liter Chev. I’ve averaged 7,000 miles over the past 185,000 miles and 11 years. It doesn’t burn oil but is plenty black at 5,000 miles. Some say the soot in the system makes no difference but no one has been able to show me anything scientific other than Base Number. And no, not interested in arguing. I‘ve got nearly 200,000 miles on a vehicle I’ve owned since new and I just want the best chance in getting to 250,000 or 300,000 miles. Whether it’s 14 oil changes or 20 oil changes in the next 100,000 miles, it makes no difference. I like changing oil. smile

I think you'll find this article on soot very interesting, i know I did. It's a short but good read if you haven't already seen it. Let's just say soot in oil is no bueno and the oils reserve alkalinity doesn't begin to address the myriad of problems soot poses in the engine/lubricant.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/51/soot-oil-engine

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 10/15/19 05:06 AM.
Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5239896 10/15/19 05:09 AM
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ChrisD46 I have to agree with you. I usually go about 5,000 or less myself and feel very confident my engines will last a long time. The Corvette gets changed more often than 5000 miles because it is parked most of the time and I like to keep it clean looking on the dipstick.


2005 Chevrolet Corvette
2014 Ford F-150 4x4 supercrew
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (wifes)
2012 Honda Civic 4 door (my daily driver)
2007 Lund Tyee Grand Sport Mercury 115HP 9.8HP
Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5239901 10/15/19 05:17 AM
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My history has been change the oil and filter once a year regardless of miles. The Ranger (85k miles) 5-6k. Runs like new with no oil usage. 4Runner (255k miles) 5k. Runs like new with no oil usage. B2500 Van (185k) 2-3k miles. Runs like new with no oil usage. F150 (250k) 1-2k miles. Runs like new with no oil usage. All with synthetic oil and OEM filters.


2005 Ranger 3.0 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
2000 4Runner 3.4 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Toyota
1997 B2500 Van 3.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Mopar
1993 F150 4.9 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5239908 10/15/19 05:55 AM
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pbm Offline
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While I don't disagree with the OPs premise....I don't think running synthetic over dino would make much difference (in vehicle longevity) doing 5K OCIs. On the other hand, the price difference between syn. and dino isn't what it used to be....so why not run synthetic (and have peace of mind should you go longer than planned on the OCI).


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: In Praise Of The Synthetic 5K Mile OCI In 5 QRT. Sump ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5239931 10/15/19 06:39 AM
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If you are DIY'ing it and purchase oil & filters on sale / close out / or order them , an oil / filter change is relatively cheap " insurance " .

On dino oil , I still try for 3000 mile OCI . On Dexos synthetic , I try for 55% & 5% on the oil life indicator .


Wyr
God bless
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