NRA Basic Pistol Course

[Al]

I have been an instructor for a while. They added the requirement (minimum) that a shooter must get 5 consecutive rounds in a 4" circle....4 times!!. Now that is at 10 feet.

Its too difficult. We had 6 students. Only 2 passed. One was a 10 year cop. A little old lady that shot a lot in the past. So the other 4 need to come back to try again. Inconvenient for student and Instructor. Most won't come back.

A while back, they made it mandatory that folks needed to complete the first portion of the course on the internet. That bombed and they needed to change it back. The training gurus have no common sense.

I hate to think this but its possible they may want the program to look good and put pressure on the instructors to pass the students.

Now I allow the students to grade their own papers (its not prohibited). To me the purpose of this very basic course is to safely learn to shoot.

 

[bdcardinal]

Is there a specific requirement on what type of pistol must be used? I would think something like a FN Five SeveN might be an advantage.

 

[CT8]

I went to the range with a fairly new shooter a 55 year Woman and her boy friend. She took lessons , her safe gun handling skills were wonderful and her shooting skills were not really the best .There was the age old issue of her boyfriend picking out a gun for her. A compact 9mm not the best to learn on in my opinion. I asked her to shoot my 22/45 Ruger, explained how to properly hold a pistol and the grip and to watch the sights . With the 22 the minimal recoil allowed her to see the movement of the sight picture when .... using the trigger. After a few magazines she was as most women I have seen shoot,,, was outperforming her boy friend.

 

[SZR48207]

This is for concealed carry right?

If so, I don't see how making it tougher is necessarily a bad thing. When I did my CCW training many years ago, I was shocked at how bad some people were shooting at the target 7 yards away. Many of them were qualifying with a 22LR semi which means recoil was not even a factor. Shots all over the man-sized regulation target.. like on the arms and the lower torso, some hits to the head, etc. We were supposed to aim for dead center chest if I recall.

I get that we all have an inherent right to self defense, but I remember driving home that day and telling myself "I hope I'm never caught in a CCW situation with any of those people".

 

[Leo99]

I've never taken the basic pistol class. I'll have to see if I can put 5 in a row in a 4 inch circle next time I go shooting. Pretty sure I can.

What does passing the class do for the student?

 

[MParr]

I imagine the types of handguns that they are using has a whole lot to do with it. Another problem is not knowing how their sights are set up. I doubt that I could meet those requirements shooting my S&W 638 or S&W Shield 9mm. But, I guarantee that I could do it with my 51 year old Browning Hi-Power or my Ruger P90. A Ruger MkIII, a S&W Victory or a Browning Buckmark would be good guns to use for qualifying. Full size 9mm semiautomatic pistols or 6" barreled revolvers would also be good. I take it that the gun you qualify with doesn't have to be your concealed carry gun.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted by Reddy45
This is for concealed carry right?

If so, I don't see how making it tougher is necessarily a bad thing. When I did my CCW training many years ago, I was shocked at how bad some people were shooting at the target 7 yards away. Many of them were qualifying with a 22LR semi which means recoil was not even a factor. Shots all over the man-sized regulation target.. like on the arms and the lower torso, some hits to the head, etc. We were supposed to aim for dead center chest if I recall.

I get that we all have an inherent right to self defense, but I remember driving home that day and telling myself "I hope I'm never caught in a CCW situation with any of those people".

 

[Al]

Originally Posted by Reddy45
This is for concealed carry right?

No its used for someone with zero skill..having just picked out a new pistol and probably never shot it. Of course its good for anyone who wants to validate the fact that took some training.
I had a guy that did not know how to remove the bullets from his mag.

What the student gets is a card/certificate that says he met course objectives. The Instructor signs it.

 

[Lyman]

That's a pretty small target for a new shooter with a new to them gun. Is there a time limit?

 

[Al]

Originally Posted by Blkstanger
That's a pretty small target for a new shooter with a new to them gun. Is there a time limit?

Really yes. The lesson portion is 4+ hours and a test. So with breaks you have maybe 2 hours total. So we had 3 couples and 4 people helping. So one instructor helping 2 people which means only 3 shooters at a time. And the course calls for loading and shooting 1 shot then 2 shots then 2 loads of 5 rounds...all at 20 feet with big targets.

Then you move to 10 feet. do 5 rounds and that leaves you 30+ bullets to do the qualification. So with an instructor heavy class and 9 hours we got 2 quals. Those 2 experienced. Just totally not do able.

Now add to this that the student is really nervous.

 

[hatt]

I'm not understanding the issue. The course is to help new shooters. Why does it matter if everyone can't pass the minimum standards the first time? Do you get a trophy if you pass?

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

I think beginner classes, especially something called a 'basic pistol course', should be focused almost entirely on firearm safety. Confidence, competence, and accuracy will come with practice.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted by hatt
I'm not understanding the issue. The course is to help new shooters. Why does it matter if everyone can't pass the minimum standards the first time? Do you get a trophy if you pass?

Would you be happy to take a course and fail it? Most people are motivated to pass a course.

Originally Posted by Bottom_Feeder
I think beginner classes, especially something called a 'basic pistol course', should be focused almost entirely on firearm safety. Confidence, competence, and accuracy will come with practice.

I strongly agree

 

[hatt]

Where is the link to this NRA course?

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted by Al
Originally Posted by hatt
I'm not understanding the issue. The course is to help new shooters. Why does it matter if everyone can't pass the minimum standards the first time? Do you get a trophy if you pass?

Would you be happy to take a course and fail it? Most people are motivated to pass a course.
...

Especially a "Basic" course.
A basic course is usually designed to be very simple that almost anyone can pass after taking the course. A 66% failure rate is not a good sign of a basic course. Yes this is a small sample, but still.
I would expect basic firearm safety rules, how a gun operates, how to shoot and aim (but not so much about accuracy), actual live fire practice and such to be covered, but consistent accuracy for a new shooter that may still be scared and nervous when shooting, much less while being tested, is not a good combination.
Accuracy take more than an afternoon to learn.

 

[Al]

Here is what an older gentleman wrote on the Glock Board. I think he hit the nail squarely on the head

I'd largely agree. Us old dogs often forget that not everybody has the same mental illnesses that we do (perusing gun porn and constantly longing to caress a glock's trigger dingus); and while a standard needs to be meaningful to have any value, if it keeps newbies from passing and therefore keeps them from progressing, it needs to be looked at with an eye toward accomplishing the overall goal. IMO, the overall goal is to get more and more people 'into' shooting. If we get them into shooting, they'll generally progress out of personal curiosity and enjoyment. Even if they don't truly progress, they've still purchased a gun and have at least tried to get some very basic instruction.

No real dog in this fight - I let my instructor certificate lapse years ago, and outside of what I've read in this thread have no idea what current standards are.

 

[hatt]

You have to get outside the old fudd groups like the NRA and old timer gun clubs.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted by hatt
You have to get outside the old fudd groups like the NRA and old timer gun clubs.

Not much of a fan of the NRA anymore. I do my training at the Law Enforcement Center
This training makes $$$$ for the club.

 

[M56959]

Please keep the conversation about training. Political commentary regarding the NRA organization will have the usual response.

 

[Astro14]

Mixed feelings on this...

On one hand, 4" accuracy at ten feet is a very low standard. First time I ever shot a pistol, I was able to do much better.

On the other, if more than half the class is failing, then the class needs to be revised so that brand new shooters can achieve some success. Longer class length? More range time? Two sessions?

There's a balance to be found here, and the shooting sports needs more members, not a barrier to entry...