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Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix #5213586 09/15/19 05:21 PM
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RayCJ Offline OP
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Here's another UOA for my son's 2007 Matrix with 181,400 miles on the clock. The vehicle runs runs like a top and gets very good fuel economy. We have owned it for the last 70,000 miles. This UOA represents 50% Milesyn full synthetic and 50% Milesyn synthetic blend, both are 5w30. Also, I put 3oz of Liqui Moly #2009 and 0.3oz of Max ZDDP. About once a month, he adds a small bottle of Chevron fuel treatment or some other PEA based cleaner in the fuel.

Once again, the sodium level is high. The rest of the UOA is excellent. I really can't figure-out where this sodium is coming from. We put an ink mark on the anti-freeze overfill bottle and it has not budged from that mark since 2018 when we did the first UOA. We have not added any anti-freeze at all.

We live about 100 miles from the ocean and not very far from a brackish-water river that feeds into the Chesapeake Bay. Today, I replaced the air filter as it was dirty and the edges of it looked like air was seeping around the seal of the housing. The air duct tubing had a very light (normal) level of dirt on the inside. This was washed-out today. I disassembled the air box and removed the permanent filter which you can see is totally filthy. That filter has some mesh and what looks like charcoal pellets inside it. This time, instead of using one of those compressed fiber filters, I used an STP premium with a rigid frame that has a rubber gasket. The lid seemed to fit more securely with this filter vs. the compressed fiber filter. (While it was apart, the MAF sensor was cleaned with proper cleaner).

I use the same brands of oil and my preferred additives in all my other vehicles and their UOA's are excellent and show virtually no sodium. So... Any guesses where the sodium is coming from?

If the head gasket were leaking A/F, would I expect a slight drop in fluid level after over a year and 20k miles of driving?

Ray

2007MatrixReportJPG.JPGP1020704.JPG
Re: Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix [Re: RayCJ] #5213846 09/15/19 10:03 PM
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addyguy Offline
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At those amounts I'd say the sodium is a detergent additive in the oil or one of the treatments you added to the oil.


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 153k miles.
Castrol GTX 5W-20; Motomaster MPH 9688

2009 Pontiac G5 - 2.2 I-4, auto, 121k miles.
Oil/filter TBD
Re: Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix [Re: addyguy] #5214018 09/16/19 05:49 AM
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RayCJ Offline OP
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Originally Posted by addyguy
At those amounts I'd say the sodium is a detergent additive in the oil or one of the treatments you added to the oil.


I wish that was it but... The same brand oil and exact same additives are used in other vehicles. None show elevated sodium and have excellent UOA results. FWIW, this is the only vehicle that uses 5w30. The others use 0w20. I purchase 5 gallon pails of full-synthetic and/or synthetic blend depending on what's on sale. Some of these containers might be pre-DexosG2 which you can see by the sudden drop in calcium.

Re: Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix [Re: RayCJ] #5215057 09/17/19 08:30 AM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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There are multiple, potential, sources of Na in oil.

Scroll down to page 14 on the following document...

oil analysis

Edit: wrong Link, sorry

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 09/17/19 08:32 AM.
Re: Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5215421 09/17/19 04:27 PM
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RayCJ Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
There are multiple, potential, sources of Na in oil.

Scroll down to page 14 on the following document...

oil analysis

Edit: wrong Link, sorry


Mad Hatter... Any chance you post the link or data in some other format? I cannot access this Google Drive link.

Re: Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix [Re: RayCJ] #5215451 09/17/19 05:11 PM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Sorry, try this...

oil analysis info

Re: Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5215477 09/17/19 06:01 PM
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RayCJ Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Sorry, try this...

oil analysis info


Got it. Very good info. Thank you!

Ray

Re: Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix [Re: RayCJ] #5215732 09/18/19 02:58 AM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Sorry, try this...

oil analysis info


Got it. Very good info. Thank you!

Ray


Np..👍.. I like the chart how it lists out contaminants and metals and possible sources. Pretty handy to have.

Given you don't have problems with the other cars and sodium, you have to ask yourself what's different fluid wise - coolant contaminant maybe???...a deteriorating seal of some kind??...ingress issue allowing salt in air/water to enter???..dunno. I think it at least points you in the right direction.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 09/18/19 03:09 AM.
Re: Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5215783 09/18/19 06:37 AM
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RayCJ Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Sorry, try this...

oil analysis info


Got it. Very good info. Thank you!

Ray


Np..👍.. I like the chart how it lists out contaminants and metals and possible sources. Pretty handy to have.

Given you don't have problems with the other cars and sodium, you have to ask yourself what's different fluid wise - coolant contaminant maybe???...a deteriorating seal of some kind??...ingress issue allowing salt in air/water to enter???..dunno. I think it at least points you in the right direction.



Yes, I liked how it provided likely sources broken down by the test criteria. Thanks again.

We've had this vehicle for about 4 years. I've checked for vacuum leaks... everything I can think of. The only thing I found was that the air cleaner lid was fitting loosely (now fixed). One big thing just hit me. I just noticed that it has "bright green" antifreeze. I know there are no official standards for antifreeze color but, Toyota is supposed to be HOAT (hybrid organic acid type) which are "usually" red or pink. Here are some good comparison charts for various types of anti-freeze.

The vehicle might have a non-recommended type of antifreeze. I'll take care of that this weekend to be on the safe side. If the next UOA shows different results, then we know it's from the antifreeze. One thing though... We've never added a single drop of anti-freeze since we got it. I marked the level on the overflow tank last year and it's rock solid. If it's consuming antifreeze, it must be trivial amounts.

Ray

Attached PDF document
AntiFreezeComparison Chart-1.pdf (579.29 KB, 14 downloads)
Attached PDF document
Re: Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix [Re: RayCJ] #5215900 09/18/19 08:53 AM
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That would be my first thing to look at Ray.. maybe whatever coolant you have in there has high sodium??.. so even small consumption would get picked up on a UOA??.. Just seems like too high a level for an ingress issue, but I suppose it's possible still. (if you're air box is tight, you're using a quality filter, no signs of vac leak and the dipstick isn't popping out... where else can it be coming from, right?)

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 09/18/19 08:58 AM.
Re: Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix [Re: RayCJ] #5215941 09/18/19 09:24 AM
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Btw, nice to see a SB go 6500 miles.. aside from the sodium mystery it's not a badUOA. You stayed in grade and the FP isn't that low.
. the TBN still had some reserve so it's still technically a serviceable lube. Not bad MileSyn..👍

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 09/18/19 09:25 AM.
Re: Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5216024 09/18/19 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Btw, nice to see a SB go 6500 miles.. aside from the sodium mystery it's not a badUOA. You stayed in grade and the FP isn't that low.
. the TBN still had some reserve so it's still technically a serviceable lube. Not bad MileSyn..👍


The 8000 mile report was the same oil. Been using Milesyn in all the vehicles for at least 6-7 years. The price has gone up a lot but it's still cheaper than most others. The next round of OCs, I'll be mixing the last of the Milesyn with some "Prime" brand that SAM's club sells.

I use the Milesyn in the 2018 Mazda3 as well as an 07 Mazda6 (very high revving 4cyl) a Tacoma 4cyl and a Sienna V6. We keep the OCIs around 6k miles.

Re: Milesyn SB 5w30 6500 miles 2007 Toyota Matrix [Re: RayCJ] #5216080 09/18/19 11:42 AM
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Get a New oil analysis (VOA) of this exact oil before any conclusions are drawn.


Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "You know, that term "dark matter" has always perplexed me. It fallaciously implies that the 95% of our universe that cannot be observed is some amorphous, eventless emptiness."
Amita Ramanujan: "I'm sorry?"
Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "I guess it's all too human. Instead of admitting to the present limits of our knowledge, we just declare things to be unknowable." NUMB3RS
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