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502 and does it matter? #5182752 08/09/19 10:30 AM
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Audijim Offline OP
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Didn't see an "Intro' on the forum so here is mine:

I'm an old school back yard hammer mechanic who grew up on early American and muscle cars. As I got smarter, switched to European. At 74 yrs old, I still wrench on my cars, but it's tough bending over and picking stuff up from the floor.

OK, my question for smart oil guys:

I've driven a number of Audi A8s both D2 and D3. Of note, my wife's old 1998 with 170,000 mile still runs good and does not have any cam timing chain rattle. I use conventional oil in it.

An earlier 2008 A8 rattled and I had the cam chain tensioner replaced. (not cheap job)

My current 2006 A8 did not rattle when I bought at 130,000 miles two years ago. Previous owner always used Audi oil. At first, I used Mobile One 5-W-40 (not 502 compatible) synthetic and I began to notice the rattle. I didn't really know about the 502 until some research and have since switched to Mob One 0 W-40 which is 501.

Since the weather got warm this year, the rattle is very noticeble (and embarrassing). Previous owner suggested I use something heavier like Castrol or Liquimolly 5-W-40 .

Any thoughts on this? Will the thicker oil build up pressure faster on start up and not rattle? Maybe I should put a can of STP "honey" in it. (just kidding).

Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: Audijim] #5182758 08/09/19 10:40 AM
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I have a 2003 Audi Allroad with nearly 300,000 miles and I would recommend a 0W-40 from Mobil 1, Valvoline, or Castrol which are all inexpensive and easy to acquire. If you want to use a 5w-40 Castrol's offering will work.

A higher grade German made oil, such as Ravenol SSL 0W-40, is something I would vouch for as well.


2018 Subaru Outback Limited - 75,000 miles
2018 Subaru Outback Premium - 30,000 miles
2012 Hyundai Accent GLS - 93,000 miles
2005 Dodge Sprinter 3500 - 161,000 miles
Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: Audijim] #5182761 08/09/19 10:42 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Well first off, one oil of one grade (40) that has a different winter rating is not necessarily thinner or thicker than another oil of the same grade. That's not what the winter rating means.

Second, you should always use an oil that carries the required approval for your vehicle. With Audi approvals the grade is largely irrelevant, the approval dictates the minimum HTHS which in some cases can be met by different grades.

Last, as far as I know there is no Mobil 1 oil that has "501" approval. Which oil were you using exactly that had that approval?


1994 BMW 530i, 246K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 420K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: Audijim] #5182766 08/09/19 10:47 AM
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Quattro Pete Offline
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It's purely anecdotal, but many people here reported that Castrol 0w40 makes their engines quiter than M1 0w40. Since the Castrol meets the required VW spec and is easy to find, I would give that a try, just to see what happens.


2002 530i   2015 Q5 3.0T   2018 Charger SRT
Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: kschachn] #5182767 08/09/19 10:50 AM
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Audijim Offline OP
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Typo. have since switched to Mob One 0 W-40 which is "502" fat fingered the 501.

While I can read the specifications, I'm really looking for someone with actual experience with cam chain tensioner rattle typical of the Audi A8 4.2 V8 engine

Has anyone noticed any affect on the rattle with different oil?

Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: Ignatius] #5182770 08/09/19 10:52 AM
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Trav Offline
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I would definitely use an oil that meets spec. Castrol 0w40 or Mobil 1 0w40 are solid choices.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: Ignatius] #5182773 08/09/19 10:53 AM
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Audijim Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Ignatius
I have a 2003 Audi Allroad with nearly 300,000 miles and I would recommend a 0W-40 from Mobil 1, Valvoline, or Castrol which are all inexpensive and easy to acquire. If you want to use a 5w-40 Castrol's offering will work.

A higher grade German made oil, such as Ravenol SSL 0W-40, is something I would vouch for as well.


Does your Allroad have the 4.2 V8 which has the typical cam chain rattle on startup?

Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: Audijim] #5182776 08/09/19 11:05 AM
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Here is Mobil 1 European Formula. “ Meets or exceeds VW 502. Common at Walmart in Canada.

64F19B72-6CA9-4540-9739-D289F763DF6B.jpeg24C91E2B-4ABB-4DD0-83FC-0DAE5927242D.jpeg
Last edited by Snagglefoot; 08/09/19 11:06 AM.

If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: Audijim] #5182828 08/09/19 12:11 PM
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oldhp Offline
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What kind of oil filter?


2018 RAM 1500 3.6/8 speed.
2019 Dodge Charger SXT 3.6/8 speed.
"When others cut you down, remember where they came from."
"I don't run...........I just wait"
Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: Audijim] #5182832 08/09/19 12:15 PM
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2009 Smart Pure
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40, Wix XP 51356 filter, 45 mpg...
185/55R15 General HP tires, "H" speed rated, 44 psi (300 kpa)
Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: Snagglefoot] #5182883 08/09/19 01:17 PM
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Audijim Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Here is Mobil 1 European Formula. “ Meets or exceeds VW 502. Common at Walmart in Canada.


Thank you for posting that picture of the Mob One European formula. It is identical to the bottle on my shelf and I have been using this year. (This, as included in my post on which I made a typo, indicating it was 501, not 502)

As for other questions, is anyone familiar with the Audi 4.2 V8 engine and have knowledge of the cam chain tensioner? The "rattle" I am talking about is due to the hydraulic tensioners not having oil pressure due to leak down overnight. the "rattle" will last 3 or 4 seconds. For years, Audi has told customers who complain that the noise if normal and not to worry about it unless the rattle continues. However, without oil on the shoe, the chain can damage the shoe. I have seen pictures of an engine with broken pieces of the shoe. It's isn't pretty and replacing the tensioner (even just the shoes) is a major job.

Tensioners (one on each bank) hold a and upper and lower "shoe" on which the cam chain rides. In operation, the tensioner apply pressure to the top or bottom shoe. This changes relative cam timing between intake and exhaust valves driven by the cams as determine by the control unit depending on acceleration, etc.

The filter I use is a MANN - HU835/1Z
It is a cartridge filter:

To my knowledge, the filter does not have some sort of pressure relief valve as I recall on older American cars from years ago. It would surprise me if the choice of filter brand had any affect on the

Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: Audijim] #5182897 08/09/19 01:37 PM
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kschachn Offline
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I will say this, it is almost never the case that an engine with mechanical defects or design problems is corrected via the use of a particular oil. If your A8 has the hydraulic tensioner(s) bleeding down then it is unlikely you are going to fix it with lubricants.

My old BMW M60 engine has one or more lifters that leaks down a bit, I've tried Castrol, Mobil 1, Redline and Valvoline oils and none have made any difference.


1994 BMW 530i, 246K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 420K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: oldhp] #5182987 08/09/19 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by oldhp
What kind of oil filter?

+1...use one with anti-drain valve...

Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: Kamele0N] #5182988 08/09/19 03:52 PM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Originally Posted by oldhp
What kind of oil filter?
+1...use one with anti-drain valve...

How?


1994 BMW 530i, 246K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 420K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: 502 and does it matter? [Re: Audijim] #5182999 08/09/19 04:20 PM
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Audios Offline
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Cam tensioner rattle has always been an issue with Audis design, its not that bad of a job, and if you dont mind wrenching then its not horrible. The trick is to leave the belt driven cam in, and "roll" the opposite cam out, leaving the timing set on the belt driven gear cam. Swap tensioner, then get the cam back in time. Off the top of my head on my older 1.8t it was exhaust cam is driven byt the t belt and intake is chain driven off the exhaust cam, so I would unbolt the intake cam, and slide it out, marking it against the chain. Reassemble and turn over a few times by hand to make sure its timed. Probably a good time for timing belt and all though, youll need the locking bar for that one though.
Edit: My cheap brother bought a 2.8 passat with the timing rattle and ran 15/40 or 10/40 in the winter, said it helped, plus was very cheap. Only went 5k on it, no issues up to 230k.

Last edited by Audios; 08/09/19 04:21 PM.

2002 VW Golf TDI-T5 10/30
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI- M1 0/30 ESP
2005 BMW M3 BMW Twin Power 10/60
2003 BMW M5-Fuchs 5/40
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