Engine full of Fuel. What is best to do?

[LeoStrop]

Summing up, i had a problem with the HEI ignition module of my Kadett, and the engine died a couple of minutes after turning it on in the morning.

The worse part is that when i turned the key , before cranking the engine, i could listen to the fuel pump as i always do, but it was never turning off. I opened the hood and also noticed that the injector was pulsing.

The result is an engine with lots of fuel (ethanol). This scenario (fuel pump and injector sending fuel with the engine off) was only for a cople of seconds (lets say 40s) before i noticed the problem.

I was able to take 200 ml of fuel from the intake (one injector tbi design) by sucking it through the throttle body with a syringe. The intake has the lowest point just beneath the TB, so there is no more fuel at the intake.

I took the spark plugs out and they were dry. Tried to suck something from the inside of the cylinder but there was not a lot of fuel inside to be able to pull out with the syringe.

I know the dipstick reads above the full mark, but cant tell by how much exactly (very clean oil makes it hard to read).

So what is the best thing to do? Consider that ethanol evaporates quickly.

1. Just fix it and change the oil and filter.
2. Just fix it, drain the oil to the full mark and drive the car a few miles before changing the oil and filter.
3. Fix it, change the oil, and crank the engine without the spark plugs to make sure there is no more fuel.
4. None of that, what would yould do?

 

[zrxkawboy]

#1

 

[talest]

IF you have some used oil around that you have not yet got the chance to dispose of, do #2

Otherwise... I would do #3, the changing of the oil is what you want to do.

I had this situation a month ago, and sure enough had to drive the car about 100 miles after. Did what I read online, which said to put a capful of oil down the spark plug hole of each cylinder and crank engine in Clear Flood mode (pedal to the floor) for about 10 seconds with the plugs in.. to clear up the possible "wash." Of fuel, of oil off the cylinder walls. Sure, the oil gets in there very fast but when it is bad, it is bad. The fuel can wash away oil and remove lubrication.

 

[LeoStrop]

Originally Posted by talest
IF you have some used oil around that you have not yet got the chance to dispose of, do #2

Otherwise... I would do #3, the changing of the oil is what you want to do.

I had this situation a month ago, and sure enough had to drive the car about 100 miles after. Did what I read online, which said to put a capful of oil down the spark plug hole of each cylinder and crank engine in Clear Flood mode (pedal to the floor) for about 10 seconds with the plugs in.. to clear up the possible "wash." Of fuel, of oil off the cylinder walls. Sure, the oil gets in there very fast but when it is bad, it is bad. The fuel can wash away oil and remove lubrication.


That is my fear. But i also don't want to fill the cylinders with oil...

I forgot to ask: do you think is necessary to use a cheap oil to flush the engine first, or just reduce the next OCI should be fine?

 

[Popsy]

Remove spark plugs, put some light oil in the cylinders, crank it (with fuel system disabled). You have no catalyst, right?

Then I'd say change oil and filter, after fixing it of course.

 

[LeoStrop]

Originally Posted by Popsy
Remove spark plugs, put some light oil in the cylinders, crank it (with fuel system disabled). You have no catalyst, right?

Then I'd say change oil and filter, after fixing it of course.


Yes no catalyst!

What is the best way to put oil into the cylinders, maybe with a sprayer? Do you think i should crank it with the spark plugs in or out first?

Thanks for the help. I will change the oil and filter before trying to crank it anyway.

 

[Popsy]

No catalyst so why not put some oil in cylinders, low saps if you can (don't use the Rimula if possible).

Crank it without spark plugs (protect around holes cause oil will be sprayed everywhere otherwise, and I mean Really everywhere!).

I just put a few drops directly with a small spray bottle (assembly lube kind), just so there is some on the piston and hopefully rings, then crank a few seconds.
Then put spark plugs back (try to wile oil from spark plugs holes/tubes if they are accessible), on startup it will smoke for a few seconds, of course.

 

[LeoStrop]

Thanks Popsy.

I think i will use the syringe with the tube that i used to pull the fuel out. That way i can put the oil directly on top of the piston.

Maybe i can turn the engine by hand after putting the oil into the cylinders.

I only have Rimula and 1 bottle of Total 15W50 SL, i will use the later since i don't want to spend money on another bottle just to use a little bit.

 

[talest]

Originally Posted by LeoStrop
Originally Posted by talest
IF you have some used oil around that you have not yet got the chance to dispose of, do #2

Otherwise... I would do #3, the changing of the oil is what you want to do.

I had this situation a month ago, and sure enough had to drive the car about 100 miles after. Did what I read online, which said to put a capful of oil down the spark plug hole of each cylinder and crank engine in Clear Flood mode (pedal to the floor) for about 10 seconds with the plugs in.. to clear up the possible "wash." Of fuel, of oil off the cylinder walls. Sure, the oil gets in there very fast but when it is bad, it is bad. The fuel can wash away oil and remove lubrication.


That is my fear. But i also don't want to fill the cylinders with oil...

I forgot to ask: do you think is necessary to use a cheap oil to flush the engine first, or just reduce the next OCI should be fine?


That would be a personal decision.

In my case, I had some used oil that I had not yet had the chance to bring to a disposal center.. a local AutoZone by me has become a regular repository of my many oil changes and transmission fluid, which can be accepted in even the same container as oil. I put this in and let it idle a good half hour before draining hot. Then, perhaps backwards, I put the cap-fuls of oil (more than a capful, really) and let it sit a little while then cranked the engine in Clear Flood mode. To keep the oil from shooting all over the garage and engine and just everywhere and also to actually get oil on the cylinder walls, I did this with the spark plugs in, fully tightened. At first, it did not want to crank. After a few seconds and a few key bumps, it did. Whether or not this was necessary given the half hour of running old oil is perhaps debatable, but knowing that I had a lot of fuel in my oil, I figured I should give my engine the benefit of that. Few capfuls. Directly in.

The point of what I am saying is that I saved the cost of even the cheapest jug of oil, I do not believe in the one use of oil, it is still new. Sure, that oil would then have fuel in it, how much so, we will not know.

In your situation.. I am not sure I would even reduce the OCI. Maybe, but that is up to you. I would go up one grade, to counteract the thinning effect some residual fuel may have on your oil viscosity. In my case, I did not, because I elected to get oil right on the bearings etc, as per an article I read about a cylinder wash. I also was not thrilled about that little trick, but after a little protesting and wondering the benefit, I again have a happy engine. And the compression is perfect too.

Oil compresses, but the engine might fight you to start, perhaps it needs some time to seep past the rings, if compression is too good, maybe it will not easily get to the bearings. The connecting rods themselves usually have oiling holes in them, so. Getting oil where there was none// The idea is to lubricate with oil everywhere there was fuel, and to do so not under load at first, then under load to get everything back into safe margin in regular service. The end result will be an engine slightly cleaned by fuel, hopefully with minimal to likely no damage because if the oil held up against the attack of the fuel then you are good.

Quote
The solution to bore/cylinder wash has thus far been to :

(a) unplug the bad overfuelling sensor concerned/fix the no-start issue,
(b) reoil the chambers by squirting 10ccs of trans or engine oil inside each combustion chamber,
(c) do 3 slow cranks to fully reoil the chambers, then 2 seconds fast crank to expel excess oil, (d) replace plugs, coils and fp fuse and start the engine.


https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-888262.html

Quote
Recently, after a long trip cross-country, my car wouldn't start. My mechanic said it had no compression, and when he opened it up, he said the cylinders were "completely cleaned out. I've never seen anything like it." He poured some motor oil in each cylinder and said that would solve the problem. It blew thick white smoke for a while - very embarrassing, but eventually it stopped doing that, and the car runs fine now.


https://community.cartalk.com/t/perfectly-clean-cylinders-no-compression/63115

My car just stopped blowing white smoke out the pipe, so I am convinced all the fuel and residual is fully purged of the system now. It did not just get all over the engine, some made it into the exhaust too, it had to. Raw gas in the oil, well all combustion goes through the exhaust valves so.. at some point, whatever got trapped will expel itself, in different forms.

 

[LeoStrop]

Thanks for the info.

Yes i will put some oil into the cylinders, maybe i will turn the engine by hand with the oil in and no plugs, before using the starter. I do believe, or hope, that there is not a large amount of fuel into the engine since i spoted the problem quick and the plugs were dry.

I do not have old oil, so i will just change it and have a long ride to hopefully take some of the residual fuel out.

I will update after , hopefully, fixing it in the morning!

 

[talest]

Originally Posted by LeoStrop
Thanks for the info.

Yes i will put some oil into the cylinders, maybe i will turn the engine by hand with the oil in and no plugs, before using the starter. I do believe, or hope, that there is not a large amount of fuel into the engine since i spoted the problem quick and the plugs were dry.

I do not have old oil, so i will just change it and have a long ride to hopefully take some of the residual fuel out.

I will update after , hopefully, fixing it in the morning!


My plugs were wet with fuel, I left them out overnight to help whatever was in there evaporate out, fuel evaporates quickly. Fuel in oil will stay in there since it is not exposed to air really and is submersed in oil, thinning and washing and destroying it if it is in there long enough. The long trip should do as you say.

I also gave the engine a partial spin by hand when my engine acted as though it did not want to turn over after the oil in the cylinders. I have to again report that it is runnin' swell now. Scary couple seconds but that is why I did the key bump, not lay on the starter.Take it easy on the engine and it will eventually spin over, oil does compress but some of the cylinders are up and some of the cylinders are down, so, the ones traveling up will be putting the oil out the exhaust valve and the ones down will be either having the oil drain past rings or staying there if compression is very well, whatever got down there immediately upon pouring it in. I put in two capfuls per because I wanted to ensure the whole wall was oiled, if that makes any sense, and that is probably why my engine protested some. It still turned over after a few seconds. Hope this helps.

 

[LeoStrop]

I am doing it right now.

Changed the oil and filter, poured some oil in cylinders (just a little). Turned the engine by hand and it's nice and free, but there was still fuel in the cylinders, so i poured more oil and hand turn again.

Now i will crank it with the starter without the plugs to take all the rest out, then i will put the plugs and try to start it.

The oil had a layer of fuel when i drained it on the pan. And also had some milky stains since ethanol has water, so i will have to change the oil again soon, i think.

Thanks for the help!

 

[LeoStrop]

Popsy and talest, once again, thanks for the tips.

The old girl is back on the road and running smoothly again.

It did burn some oil but not that much, and it started on the first turn after plugging everything back.

It's impressive how a 25 years old original GM HEI module is still working, and the new Delphi that has less than 1 year and 4k miles has already broken. That is the worse part of owning an old car, bad quality new parts. At least it's a project car, so i will be changing a lot of things, the fuel injection will be the first.

I ran it for about 60 miles and the oil doesn't smell like ethanol anymore. How long do you guys think i should run this new oil and filter?

 

[talest]

Originally Posted by LeoStrop
Popsy and talest, once again, thanks for the tips.

The old girl is back on the road and running smoothly again.

It did burn some oil but not that much, and it started on the first turn after plugging everything back.

It's impressive how a 25 years old original GM HEI module is still working, and the new Delphi that has less than 1 year and 4k miles has already broken. That is the worse part of owning an old car, bad quality new parts. At least it's a project car, so i will be changing a lot of things, the fuel injection will be the first.

I ran it for about 60 miles and the oil doesn't smell like ethanol anymore. How long do you guys think i should run this new oil and filter?


You are very welcome, friend. I too can say the vehicle runs very very smooth. If I had to do it again, and I hope I never do, I will use less oil per cylinder, same as you did. Seems like only a little bit is needed, and not a lot.

Friend, Did you use the oil Shell Rimula RT4X 15W40? (If so, I think you may be alright and I would run it the same OCI as you have, you may have remedied the problem and you have a nice thick viscosity there, if there was some residual fuel somehow.)

 

[LeoStrop]

Yes i did use the Rimula!

Since i only had a 4L jug of the Shell, which is the size of my sump, i used the Total 15W50 on the cylinders. Ended up using only 2 caps anyway. But when i drained the oil i could see that the ethanol was the last thing to leave the sump, and there was a layer of fuel on top of the oil in the pan (i did not crank the engine after i noticed the problem, so the oil had not been shaked or mixed). So i poured some Total and let it drain a little bit more to take out the residual fuel of the sump.

I will shorten the OCI just a little bit and i think everything should be ok. Have a nice day my friend!