Have read about 5 threads on Fram Ultra oil filters, and only saw a couple of negative comments about the filter's construction. Sounds like Fram finally got it together. Currently running a Motorcraft FL820S and Mobil 1 EP 5W20 with 8000 mile oil and filter change intervals. After reading several threads on oil filters, I'm no longer comfortable running an FL820S to 8000 miles, because it might go into bypass mode at some point. Thinking seriously about going with the Ultra, partly for increased efficiency, and partly for the added filter capacity. But those few negative comments still bother me, considering what I often heard about Fram years ago. Has anyone heard of any actual failures, where an Ultra caused an engine to fail? Thanks in advance.
Fram Ultra failures?
- Thread starter Vigilant
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There were a couple of Ultra cartridge filters (in Mercedes, maybe BMW?) a while back, but other than that, I don't recall seeing any actual failures of the filter.
I don't know of any engine failure caused by any oil filter.
Fram had issues in the '90's and that rep has stuck around well past the time that it was fixed.
I don't know of any engine failure caused by any oil filter.
Fram had issues in the '90's and that rep has stuck around well past the time that it was fixed.
Your worries are unfounded.
FRAM Ultra all the way. Zero worries.
Depends on what you consider a failure. If you consider oil leak by at the combo bypass valve/leaf spring piece then I suppose there are many failures with the ultra. It's really not a good design. If they would ditch that and move to a thread end bypass as well as thicken up the metal can it could be a good filter.
So Pinoak, please provide definitive proof of even just one filter model by any manufacturer that meets your criteria AND actually has some empirical data to back up that that model/brand has never had a failure.
XG isn't even my favorite filter model (Napa Gold gets that) but for you to baselessly smear the Ultra because you simply don't prefer it's design, even when walked thru all the reasons your concerns are unfounded and irrelevant, just shows you have an axe to grind.
OP, there are very few filters that boast all of the XGs benefits especially in its price range, in spin ons. I don't proclaim to know about their cartridges because well, I simply won't buy a vehicle with a cartridge filter based on personal preference. Dual-layer synthetic media, wire backing, 20k manufacturer rating, 99%@20 microns...all right on the box. From the simple law of averages and even Six Sigma, yes, every manufacturing process will eventually have some failures. But considering the rare occurrence rate, plus the heavy-duty features it boasts, if you are looking for very good filtration for multiple OCIs, Fram Ultra is tough to beat at any price.
XG isn't even my favorite filter model (Napa Gold gets that) but for you to baselessly smear the Ultra because you simply don't prefer it's design, even when walked thru all the reasons your concerns are unfounded and irrelevant, just shows you have an axe to grind.
OP, there are very few filters that boast all of the XGs benefits especially in its price range, in spin ons. I don't proclaim to know about their cartridges because well, I simply won't buy a vehicle with a cartridge filter based on personal preference. Dual-layer synthetic media, wire backing, 20k manufacturer rating, 99%@20 microns...all right on the box. From the simple law of averages and even Six Sigma, yes, every manufacturing process will eventually have some failures. But considering the rare occurrence rate, plus the heavy-duty features it boasts, if you are looking for very good filtration for multiple OCIs, Fram Ultra is tough to beat at any price.
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
So Pinoak, please provide definitive proof of even just one filter model by any manufacturer that meets your criteria AND actually has some empirical data to back up that that model/brand has never had a failure.
XG isn't even my favorite filter model (Napa Gold gets that) but for you to baselessly smear the Ultra because you simply don't prefer it's design, even when walked thru all the reasons your concerns are unfounded and irrelevant, just shows you have an axe to grind.
OP, there are very few filters that boast all of the XGs benefits especially in its price range, in spin ons. I don't proclaim to know about their cartridges because well, I simply won't buy a vehicle with a cartridge filter based on personal preference. Dual-layer synthetic media, wire backing, 20k manufacturer rating, 99%@20 microns...all right on the box. From the simple law of averages and even Six Sigma, yes, every manufacturing process will eventually have some failures. But considering the rare occurrence rate, plus the heavy-duty features it boasts, if you are looking for very good filtration for multiple OCIs, Fram Ultra is tough to beat at any price.
I think you've seen some of the same cut and post I've seen. The impression ring around the endcaps or endcaps gasket tells the story. I'm not making anything up.
So Pinoak, please provide definitive proof of even just one filter model by any manufacturer that meets your criteria AND actually has some empirical data to back up that that model/brand has never had a failure.
XG isn't even my favorite filter model (Napa Gold gets that) but for you to baselessly smear the Ultra because you simply don't prefer it's design, even when walked thru all the reasons your concerns are unfounded and irrelevant, just shows you have an axe to grind.
OP, there are very few filters that boast all of the XGs benefits especially in its price range, in spin ons. I don't proclaim to know about their cartridges because well, I simply won't buy a vehicle with a cartridge filter based on personal preference. Dual-layer synthetic media, wire backing, 20k manufacturer rating, 99%@20 microns...all right on the box. From the simple law of averages and even Six Sigma, yes, every manufacturing process will eventually have some failures. But considering the rare occurrence rate, plus the heavy-duty features it boasts, if you are looking for very good filtration for multiple OCIs, Fram Ultra is tough to beat at any price.
I think you've seen some of the same cut and post I've seen. The impression ring around the endcaps or endcaps gasket tells the story. I'm not making anything up.
Originally Posted by Pinoak
... If they would ditch that and move to a thread end bypass as well as thicken up the metal can it could be a good filter.
I am curious about the suggestion of thicker metal...do any reasonably priced filters have thicker cans than the Ultra? I found them to be very sturdy (as compared to the current version of the Pure One).
... If they would ditch that and move to a thread end bypass as well as thicken up the metal can it could be a good filter.
I am curious about the suggestion of thicker metal...do any reasonably priced filters have thicker cans than the Ultra? I found them to be very sturdy (as compared to the current version of the Pure One).
IMHO, that is the Ultra's ONE weakness-the can needs to be a little thicker/stronger. I've had a couple catch road debris/gravel & get a dent that flaked off the Sure-Grip coating and started to rust. The Ultra can is as strong as it has to be, but the Royal Purple and Bosch Distance Plus ones are stronger. I have had no issues with spin-on Ultra media nor ADBVs, & I have used them to 20,000 miles, then cut open, no visible issues.
next advance will possibly be a fram ultra 20 or 25000 mile filter. that would be nice
So many people use these filters that arent on the forums, if there was a serious issue Im sure there would be news coverage, or an official statement from Fram. Use whatever orange can youd like, for a reasonable interval you wont have any issues, besides lack of sleep.....
Originally Posted by RyanY
I am curious about the suggestion of thicker metal...do any reasonably priced filters have thicker cans than the Ultra? I found them to be very sturdy (as compared to the current version of the Pure One).
Royal Purple and Bosch Distance Plus+
The only other premium filters worth really taking a close look at are Donaldson Synteq, Fleetguard Stratopore, Baldwin MPG series, and Amsoil
I am curious about the suggestion of thicker metal...do any reasonably priced filters have thicker cans than the Ultra? I found them to be very sturdy (as compared to the current version of the Pure One).
Royal Purple and Bosch Distance Plus+
The only other premium filters worth really taking a close look at are Donaldson Synteq, Fleetguard Stratopore, Baldwin MPG series, and Amsoil
Originally Posted by Audios
So many people use these filters that arent on the forums...
I'll bet that Fram's mid-grade filter is their top seller based on Walmart shelves. I think the typical DIY type avoids the cheapest option but then decides between the premium grand and mid-grade. I'm avoiding OEM filters (users of those stick to them no matter what typically) or niche filtes (K&N, etc) in my thinking.
Also, regarding Fram Ultra, I've never seen them on the shelf at auto parts stores. Only see them at Walmart or Meijer (a regional, Walmart-type store in the midwest) and online. It seems odd that Fram doesn't sell these in auto parts stores to me but it must work for them.
So many people use these filters that arent on the forums...
I'll bet that Fram's mid-grade filter is their top seller based on Walmart shelves. I think the typical DIY type avoids the cheapest option but then decides between the premium grand and mid-grade. I'm avoiding OEM filters (users of those stick to them no matter what typically) or niche filtes (K&N, etc) in my thinking.
Also, regarding Fram Ultra, I've never seen them on the shelf at auto parts stores. Only see them at Walmart or Meijer (a regional, Walmart-type store in the midwest) and online. It seems odd that Fram doesn't sell these in auto parts stores to me but it must work for them.
dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted by Vigilant
... After reading several threads on oil filters, I'm no longer comfortable running an FL820S to 8000 miles, because it might go into bypass mode at some point.
If you want to use a FrU, then by all means go for it.
Your fear regarding the FL820 going "into bypass mode at some point" is completely unfounded.
I offer two reasons why ...
1) Ford ran their TCB testing back in 2006 using 4.6L engines in some taxis in Vegas; they ran the oil/filters out to 15k miles and saw no issues whatsoever about filters going into bypass. While filter bypass was not the test mantra, they did note that wear rates continued in a downward trend as the OFCI went longer ... all the way out to 15k miles. So it is fair to presume that the filter was not going into significant/sustained bypass or the wear would have trended up, and not down as it actually did.
2) our member Jim Allen did testing on the same filter; he using some well integrated high qualify pressure tracking equipment where he follow the dP across the filter. He never saw the filter go into bypass except for using oil that was too thick, and revving the stone cold engine far past a sensible point (WOT bursts on a cold engine). And even then the dP was only for a couple seconds. When the oil was warm and of the correct vis, there was never any bypass whatsoever.
Additionally, I've run repeated runs of 10k mile OFCIs, and some out to 15k miles, and after countless good UOA results and boring UOA filter dissections, I see no basis to believe any filter blinds off and goes into perpetual bypass in a normal application. Today's engine run too clean, and lubes are so well fortified, that filters blinding off are a silly debate. No filter goes into BP with any frequency. Unless you're engine is in horrifically dirty shape, and you have sludge in massive amounts that would blind off a filter, there's no reason to ever believe a filter is going into bypass in any dangerous manner. Not ever.
Now, if your fear is based on the potential of torn or voided media in an FL820, that might be a different conversation.
... After reading several threads on oil filters, I'm no longer comfortable running an FL820S to 8000 miles, because it might go into bypass mode at some point.
If you want to use a FrU, then by all means go for it.
Your fear regarding the FL820 going "into bypass mode at some point" is completely unfounded.
I offer two reasons why ...
1) Ford ran their TCB testing back in 2006 using 4.6L engines in some taxis in Vegas; they ran the oil/filters out to 15k miles and saw no issues whatsoever about filters going into bypass. While filter bypass was not the test mantra, they did note that wear rates continued in a downward trend as the OFCI went longer ... all the way out to 15k miles. So it is fair to presume that the filter was not going into significant/sustained bypass or the wear would have trended up, and not down as it actually did.
2) our member Jim Allen did testing on the same filter; he using some well integrated high qualify pressure tracking equipment where he follow the dP across the filter. He never saw the filter go into bypass except for using oil that was too thick, and revving the stone cold engine far past a sensible point (WOT bursts on a cold engine). And even then the dP was only for a couple seconds. When the oil was warm and of the correct vis, there was never any bypass whatsoever.
Additionally, I've run repeated runs of 10k mile OFCIs, and some out to 15k miles, and after countless good UOA results and boring UOA filter dissections, I see no basis to believe any filter blinds off and goes into perpetual bypass in a normal application. Today's engine run too clean, and lubes are so well fortified, that filters blinding off are a silly debate. No filter goes into BP with any frequency. Unless you're engine is in horrifically dirty shape, and you have sludge in massive amounts that would blind off a filter, there's no reason to ever believe a filter is going into bypass in any dangerous manner. Not ever.
Now, if your fear is based on the potential of torn or voided media in an FL820, that might be a different conversation.
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Lots of filters are cut and posted on this forum. Every brand of filter has shown a few failures of some kind over the years. The Ultra is in the very low failure rate category ... very few have been posted over the years that have shown any problems. As mentioned earlier, there was one model that was a cartridge style that had end cap separation issues, and that was quite a while ago. As far as spin-ons, there were a couple cases of loose guts, but it was determined it was probably from the filter being dropped and dented at some point. If you're going to worry about an Ultra failure then you should also be worrying even more about other filters failing.
Ultra it is. Thanks very much, gents.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
... The Ultra is in the very low failure rate category ... As mentioned earlier, there was one model that was a cartridge style that had end cap separation issues, and that was quite a while ago. ...
There was also a serious fit issue on the same model a couple of years ago.
... The Ultra is in the very low failure rate category ... As mentioned earlier, there was one model that was a cartridge style that had end cap separation issues, and that was quite a while ago. ...
There was also a serious fit issue on the same model a couple of years ago.
Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
... The Ultra is in the very low failure rate category ... As mentioned earlier, there was one model that was a cartridge style that had end cap separation issues, and that was quite a while ago. ...
There was also a serious fit issue on the same model a couple of years ago.
Fram manages to resolve issues they may have in a professional and relatively efficient manner.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
... The Ultra is in the very low failure rate category ... As mentioned earlier, there was one model that was a cartridge style that had end cap separation issues, and that was quite a while ago. ...
There was also a serious fit issue on the same model a couple of years ago.
Fram manages to resolve issues they may have in a professional and relatively efficient manner.
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