Yes, Friction modifiers and wet clutches... Beside moly, are there other friction modifiers added to oil ? Thanks
Friction modifiers
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OFM -- organic friction modifiers. (moly is inorganic. .. tungsten is another similar inorganic one )
"Friction Modifiers
Friction modifiers are typically split into two categories; organic
and inorganic.
Traditional organic friction modifiers (OFMs) include partial
esters and fatty amides such as glycerol mono-oleate and oleyl
amide. Following the successful development of a new range
of products, Croda can now add polymeric friction modifiers to
the range of organic friction modifiers. OFMs typically have a
polar head-group which enables the OFM to adsorb onto the
metal surface, and a non-polar hydrocarbon backbone which is
required to maintain oil solubility and to enable film formation
between contacting surfaces. "
http://www.lube-media.com/wp-conten...ModifiersforNextGenerationEngineOils.pdf
They show up in a lot of oils, though you can't see them on a VOA or UOA. Invisible and secret usually.
"Friction Modifiers
Friction modifiers are typically split into two categories; organic
and inorganic.
Traditional organic friction modifiers (OFMs) include partial
esters and fatty amides such as glycerol mono-oleate and oleyl
amide. Following the successful development of a new range
of products, Croda can now add polymeric friction modifiers to
the range of organic friction modifiers. OFMs typically have a
polar head-group which enables the OFM to adsorb onto the
metal surface, and a non-polar hydrocarbon backbone which is
required to maintain oil solubility and to enable film formation
between contacting surfaces. "
http://www.lube-media.com/wp-conten...ModifiersforNextGenerationEngineOils.pdf
They show up in a lot of oils, though you can't see them on a VOA or UOA. Invisible and secret usually.
Originally Posted by Truckedup
Yes, Friction modifiers and wet clutches... Beside moly, are there other friction modifiers added to oil ? Thanks
Oils that meet JASO MA (which includes MA1 and MA2) have more friction than normal passenger car oils. So additives that makes the oil have less friction are removed or at a lower concentration.
Yes, Friction modifiers and wet clutches... Beside moly, are there other friction modifiers added to oil ? Thanks
Oils that meet JASO MA (which includes MA1 and MA2) have more friction than normal passenger car oils. So additives that makes the oil have less friction are removed or at a lower concentration.
ZDDP is popular as AW, not FM, and has been in oils for a long time. It is Anti-Wear AW, but it oddly increases friction, good news for clutches.
The titanium compounds that some Castrol, Valvoline, and Kendall oils have are AW, and from what I can tell may reduce friction as well.
The titanium compounds that some Castrol, Valvoline, and Kendall oils have are AW, and from what I can tell may reduce friction as well.
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Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
ZDDP is popular as AW, not FM, and has been in oils for a long time. It is Anti-Wear AW, but it oddly increases friction, good news for clutches.
The titanium compounds that some Castrol, Valvoline, and Kendall oils have are AW, and from what I can tell may reduce friction as well.
Ok...I've heard a few say they run Valvoline VR1 conventional oil in wet clutch bikes with no problems..I believe VR1 does contain the usual friction modifiers but perhaps the relatively high ZDDP additive cancels out the FM?
ZDDP is popular as AW, not FM, and has been in oils for a long time. It is Anti-Wear AW, but it oddly increases friction, good news for clutches.
The titanium compounds that some Castrol, Valvoline, and Kendall oils have are AW, and from what I can tell may reduce friction as well.
Ok...I've heard a few say they run Valvoline VR1 conventional oil in wet clutch bikes with no problems..I believe VR1 does contain the usual friction modifiers but perhaps the relatively high ZDDP additive cancels out the FM?
Originally Posted by Truckedup
Ok...I've heard a few say they run Valvoline VR1 conventional oil in wet clutch bikes with no problems..I believe VR1 does contain the usual friction modifiers but perhaps the relatively high ZDDP additive cancels out the FM?
Probably true. Sometimes an oil is not strongly FMed-up. The VOA's on some VR1 oils I've seen show little or no moly FM. The organic friction modifier (OFM) "secret" content that doesn't show up on a VOA or UOA may be high, yet OFM might not interfere with wet clutches since it's not solid-particle plating metal surfaces. ................. Bottom line, the oil maker will tell you if its OK to use with wet clutches, or you can also try an oil to see if clutch operation is fine. People report some of the diesel engine oils can be used in wet-clutch motorcyles, and they have little or no FM. We usually see almost zero moly in diesel engine oil in a lot of cases,
VR1 is odd as a racing oil. Most racing oils have a lot of moly to lower oil temperatures, increase wheel HP, and reduce fuel consumption in a race.
When you see GF-5 (or GF-4), or "SN-RC" on an oil, it is FMed to pass the Sequence VID fuel economy test, and should definitely be avoided if you wanted to try it in a motorcyle. Of course any xw-40 or xw-50 oil isn't going to be GF-5 or SN-RC anyway.
Ok...I've heard a few say they run Valvoline VR1 conventional oil in wet clutch bikes with no problems..I believe VR1 does contain the usual friction modifiers but perhaps the relatively high ZDDP additive cancels out the FM?
Probably true. Sometimes an oil is not strongly FMed-up. The VOA's on some VR1 oils I've seen show little or no moly FM. The organic friction modifier (OFM) "secret" content that doesn't show up on a VOA or UOA may be high, yet OFM might not interfere with wet clutches since it's not solid-particle plating metal surfaces. ................. Bottom line, the oil maker will tell you if its OK to use with wet clutches, or you can also try an oil to see if clutch operation is fine. People report some of the diesel engine oils can be used in wet-clutch motorcyles, and they have little or no FM. We usually see almost zero moly in diesel engine oil in a lot of cases,
VR1 is odd as a racing oil. Most racing oils have a lot of moly to lower oil temperatures, increase wheel HP, and reduce fuel consumption in a race.
When you see GF-5 (or GF-4), or "SN-RC" on an oil, it is FMed to pass the Sequence VID fuel economy test, and should definitely be avoided if you wanted to try it in a motorcyle. Of course any xw-40 or xw-50 oil isn't going to be GF-5 or SN-RC anyway.
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