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Re: Would not have bought a Toyota for the spouse if I knew this. [Re: Wolf359] #5027104
02/28/19 11:00 PM
02/28/19 11:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 442
Atlanta, GA
pezzy669 Offline
pezzy669  Offline

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 442
Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by Miller88
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Buying a Toyota for AWD was your first mistake


Yep, there's Subaru AWD and then there's... all the "non-AWD AWDs"


Anything with a sideways engine and AWD is a big no no for me. I like front wheel drive, but PDUs are just unreliable. Doesn't matter if it's bottom of the barrel or Haldex. It's an unreliable afterhought.

At least he AWD system on my Subaru is mechanical. Kinda sucks as I can't just replace one or two tires. At least on some of the older 4EAT ones you could disable AWD and make them front drive only.


Oh yeah, in that case, you should probably get a Mercedes. I believe most of their 4matic systems are normally rwd without the system so it's still there if you have a fault. When I had a bad steering angle sensor, it did knock out the abs and stability control along with the cruise control, but the AWD always worked. I think only one of their cheaper models is actually FWD, the rest are RWD based.



Ehhh Mercedes limp mode is not much better - you can barely get out of your own way when it kicks in. Had a faulty accelerator pedal in my E350 that would throw the car into limp mode (disabling ABS, TCS and ESP) because of implausible signals at WOT and my car would go dead in the water and barely move once it went into limp mode. Yeah my 4Matic was probably still working but when power was cut by +75% it probably wasn't necessary to even have 4Matic because there was not enough power flowing to cause any slip.


2012 Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI - 66k
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Re: Would not have bought a Toyota for the spouse if I knew this. [Re: i6pwr] #5027190
03/01/19 12:28 AM
03/01/19 12:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 40
Spokane, WA, U.S.A.
HighbrowHillbill Offline
HighbrowHillbill  Offline

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 40
Spokane, WA, U.S.A.
Sell it. That is pants on head retarded.


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Re: Would not have bought a Toyota for the spouse if I knew this. [Re: NormanBuntz] #5027242
03/01/19 04:24 AM
03/01/19 04:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,421
PA
Gasbuggy Offline
Gasbuggy  Offline

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,421
PA
Originally Posted by NormanBuntz
So you don't live in a snow belt, and you're worried about your O2 sensor causing a fault at the SAME TIME that conditions are snowy? Probably the same probability as being struck by lightning. I thought I worried about small things. Besides you still have FWD with all season tires.



It will happen to people. Most likely is they won't know to expect it to not be working while their CEL is on. I agree with the OP, it's a dumb design. Wonder what NHTSA would say about safety features being unnecessarily disabled. No one can predict when an O2 sensor will fail.


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Re: Would not have bought a Toyota for the spouse if I knew this. [Re: i6pwr] #5027288
03/01/19 06:56 AM
03/01/19 06:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,831
New England
madRiver Offline
madRiver  Offline

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,831
New England
The time it happened to me where CEL AWD/Traction shutdown I happened to be a wet day. With one wheel on manhole at stop light I did not realize how much traction control/AWD helps when 300 HP vehicle reverts to FWD no nannies. Torque steer is quite heavy and tire spins.

Re: Would not have bought a Toyota for the spouse if I knew this. [Re: i6pwr] #5028004
03/01/19 04:50 PM
03/01/19 04:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,425
Central NY
Miller88 Offline
Miller88  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,425
Central NY
For me , AWD isn't a necessity. It was a standard feature of the vehicle I wanted. If I could have got a FWD or RWD Forester, I would have.


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep XJ
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Re: Would not have bought a Toyota for the spouse if I knew this. [Re: i6pwr] #5028215
03/01/19 08:18 PM
03/01/19 08:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 473
Vermont
methusaleh Offline
methusaleh  Offline

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 473
Vermont
Does this happen with all Toyotas? I am looking at a 4Runner now, specifically because of how difficult my property and area can be to navigate.

Re: Would not have bought a Toyota for the spouse if I knew this. [Re: i6pwr] #5028343
03/01/19 09:57 PM
03/01/19 09:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,607
Utah
CKN Offline
CKN  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,607
Utah
Unbelievable.......

Re: Would not have bought a Toyota for the spouse if I knew this. [Re: i6pwr] #5028408
03/01/19 10:45 PM
03/01/19 10:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,895
MA
Wolf359 Offline
Wolf359  Offline

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,895
MA
Originally Posted by pezzy669
Ehhh Mercedes limp mode is not much better - you can barely get out of your own way when it kicks in. Had a faulty accelerator pedal in my E350 that would throw the car into limp mode (disabling ABS, TCS and ESP) because of implausible signals at WOT and my car would go dead in the water and barely move once it went into limp mode. Yeah my 4Matic was probably still working but when power was cut by +75% it probably wasn't necessary to even have 4Matic because there was not enough power flowing to cause any slip.


True, but at least limp mode had something to do with the car. A random CEL that has nothing to do with the system aside from the fact that they're all tied in isn't a good system.

Re: Would not have bought a Toyota for the spouse if I knew this. [Re: i6pwr] #5028473
03/01/19 11:51 PM
03/01/19 11:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,666
DELAWARE
Hootbro Offline
Hootbro  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,666
DELAWARE
Since you bought it used, Toyota has not made any money off of you. So selling it will not make them miss you as a contributing customer.


2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon 3.6L (Factory Fill 0W-20)
2017 Jeep Renegade Latitude 2.4L (Idemitsu 0W-20)

Re: Would not have bought a Toyota for the spouse if I knew this. [Re: methusaleh] #5029844
03/03/19 07:42 AM
03/03/19 07:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,831
New England
madRiver Offline
madRiver  Offline

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,831
New England
Originally Posted by methusaleh
Does this happen with all Toyotas? I am looking at a 4Runner now, specifically because of how difficult my property and area can be to navigate.


Likely not as 4runnner is purpose built 4wd instead of a FWD with tacked on AWD like 95% CUVs on road besides Subaru.

Re: Would not have bought a Toyota for the spouse if I knew this. [Re: madRiver] #5030609
03/03/19 08:13 PM
03/03/19 08:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 471
Indiana
5AcresAndAFool Offline
5AcresAndAFool  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 471
Indiana
Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by methusaleh
Does this happen with all Toyotas? I am looking at a 4Runner now, specifically because of how difficult my property and area can be to navigate.


Likely not as 4runnner is purpose built 4wd instead of a FWD with tacked on AWD like 95% CUVs on road besides Subaru.


There is so much Misinformation on this thread I do not even know where to begin, You obviously do not have a firm grasp about the 4 runners 4wd system, it is indeed disabled when the PCM has error codes, it works almost the same as the "tacked on" systems you speak of.

I do agree that disabling the VSC and TCS for an evap code is asinine. I do understand why you would want to disable non essential systems for something like a TPS code.

The ABS system is NOT disabled for a PCM code. Just the VSC and TCS.

I have two toyota products and find this ridiculous as well but I am sure the lawyers had the final input on the matter.

FWIW we have an awd sienna, an 05, there is always a 50/50 bias between the front and rear, there is no way to disable this, there is 3 differentials, a front, center ( not really in the center) and rear. All 3 are open. The vehicle uses the traction control to lock the spinning wheels. With No TCS you could have 3 wheels on ice and one on dry blacktop and you aren't going anywhere.

It is a quick, cheap and dirty AWD setup however it is also simple and extremely reliable. It is just not very effective if you do not have the benefit of traction control.

On My XB, it is almost undrivable with no traction control, the deep throttle tip in does not help. I for one actually like ABS,VSC and TCS. I have had plenty of vehicles without it and I feel overall it is beneficial.

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