Brutality, with intent to kill....

[oldhp]

I don't think people are afraid of the law. A guy just last Wed got out of prison, 10yrs of a 20yr sentence, for beating a woman so bad she is now FOREVER in a wheelchair with diminished mental capacities. This was after he served off and on 5 other prison sentences. He's 57 yrs old. He should have been hung. Period.
We need stiffer laws that cannot be plea bargained down.

 

[Mr Nice]

Yep. Unfortunately some feel the USA should have less prisons and give violent offenders a slap on wrist.

 

[OVERKILL]

We've noticed this paradigm shift locally here. Our downtown is claimed to be "safer than ever" but the reality is that what used to be the odd bar brawl or street scuffle have turned into crippling or lethal assaults, often of the group sort. So while the number of interactions may be the same or even a bit lower, the severity of those altercations has significantly increased.

At the same time, we've embraced "addict culture", which may or may not in any way tie into this. I'm simply mentioning it because its proliferation in the same area has happened in parallel with the change in perceived safety of the area and the increase in these more severe assaults. Needles have now become a huge issue. A local "clean needle" dispensary gave out 3/4 of a million needles last year, received some 200-odd thousand back IIRC. Ergo, that means there are some 1/2 a million needles unaccounted for and kids are tripping over them, people's dogs are stepping on them...etc. Subsequently, the folks that used to enjoy strolls through the downtown are no longer doing so. The traffic has thus largely shifted to transients, students and those who lack 4-wheeled transportation. It's a demographic shift that seems to accompany the interaction severity one.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted by oldhp
I don't think people are afraid of the law. A guy just last Wed got out of prison, 10yrs of a 20yr sentence, for beating a woman so bad she is now FOREVER in a wheelchair with diminished mental capacities. This was after he served off and on 5 other prison sentences. He's 57 yrs old. He should have been hung. Period.
We need stiffer laws that cannot be plea bargained down.


Stiffer laws and mandatory minimums do nothing if they are not properly applied. That's the real problem. People barely worth slapping the cuffs on get decades in prison, and absolute monsters take a walk. The laws get stiffer and stiffer, but a person with enough resources can skate right out of trouble.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Justice is going to a brothel, getting screwed over is at a courthouse. We have a death penalty here in Kansas yet never use it. Kudos to those in Oklahoma and Missouri for still doing what we wont do here.

 

[hpb]

It is a worry. A punch up used to be over once someone was on the ground.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by hpb
It is a worry. A punch up used to be over once someone was on the ground.


I remember a few times when someone went to sink the slipper in after a guy was down, and was hauled off by his own mates...nit egged on to kill someone.

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted by bubbatime
Originally Posted by SonofJoe
it's shocking how young both the perpetrators and the victims are in some of these killings; 13 to 16 seems 'normal' these days!


The most dangerous people in society are 12-17 year old males. They are the most violent, most dangerous, most likely to go to far, to maim or to kill, without remorse.



Sorry but to me it seems like 'men' and I use the term loosely, start off in that mode then never graduate to become Men. I know a few 30 somethings that behave like 15 year old know it alls. having their own kid. God help us.

 

[crinkles]

Nothing is new under the sun, however, I do believe something has become very sick in our society in the last 10 years. I see it in neighbours and work, all the time... Frankly I believe it's due to poor parenting from the 60's on.

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by Marco620
Justice is going to a brothel, getting screwed over is at a courthouse. We have a death penalty here in Kansas yet never use it. Kudos to those in Oklahoma and Missouri for still doing what we wont do here.


How many innocent people are you willing to kill to sate your blood lust?

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by demarpaint
FTR I am in no way advocating it! Times have changed! There are people that have trained to fight [self defense] and go about it under the assumption the opponent could have a weapon, and use it from the ground. In some instances that may very well be the reason some people stomp heads. In a self defense situation, a knock out or stomping the hands so a person can't use a weapon is a better way than risking killing or permanently disabling someone. Operative words here are self defense.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As attacks worsen, and become much more violent, the response to that violence must escalate as well. If not you are going to be far more likely to be on the losing end. Women used to be taught to try and kick a guy in the nuts, or spray him with Mace. Today they're taught to gouge at their attackers eyes. Or else flat out shoot them if they are armed.

I've trained in and taught self defense for almost 40 years now. The best defense is not to be in harms way. LOL But we don't live in a perfect world. To keep is short, I try and avoid confrontation, if I have to defend myself I will do whatever I have to do to survive. There are a lot of sick people in the world unfortunately. I taught women to try and take a man's sight way, [and the groin shots, most knew that from when they were little girls] make a lot of noise and get the [censored] away the first chance they get.

Yes, times have changed, and not for the best unfortunately.


The fundamental concept of self defense is to always be aware of what's going on around you to allow yourself to avoid attack or at least to be prepared for the possibility. Burying your attention in your phone is not the best idea when out among people you don't know. Having a firearm is also not necessarily helpful in that you may not be able to get enough time and distance to deploy it and you might also lose control of it, giving your attacker your own weapon.
The whole point of unarmed self defense is to evade and block shots to the head. Take a solid punch to the jaw and you're down, so the priority is to avoid or block any such blows. I'm not sure how good of an idea it would be to voluntarily close with an aggressor, particularly for a woman, as would be needed to actually take someone's eye out. The danger is that you would likely end up in a clinch and if the aggressor is bigger and stronger than you you'll still be able to use some striking techniques but are likely to get picked off the ground and then slammed into it, not a good place to be, although there are techniques that may allow you to control an attacker who ends up on top of you while you're on your back. If an attacker attempts to kick you when you're down, you might be able to seize his foot and give it a hard twist, possibly fracturing something but at least knocking him onto his back. If anyone grabs you from behind, the hard surface of your skull might prove effective against the soft tissue of his face and rearward elbow strikes can work well.
This is all stuff I'd never want to test empirically, which is the reason that situational awareness is the first and best tool in your arsenal.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted by crinkles
Nothing is new under the sun, however, I do believe something has become very sick in our society in the last 10 years. I see it in neighbours and work, all the time... Frankly I believe it's due to poor parenting from the 60's on.

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.




Good quote, but there literally hasn't been a year in human history that did not fit this description to a T.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by Marco620
Justice is going to a brothel, getting screwed over is at a courthouse. We have a death penalty here in Kansas yet never use it. Kudos to those in Oklahoma and Missouri for still doing what we wont do here.


How many innocent people are you willing to kill to sate your blood lust?


The irony.

 

[555]

Anger is, and always has been, an addictive emotion. I got no stats but what I encounter. Anger has become the "go to" emotion for many.
When I lived AND drove in Boston daily in the eighties, I got flipped off regularly. I gave and I got. The worst was someone threw a half full water bottle at me and another time a guy tapped my bumper on purpose in gridlock. I laughed, my girlfriend laughed, he laughed, and his wife/girlfriend laughed. Situation ceased to be hostile.
Anger makes people feel empowered.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by Reddy45
On top of all this is a shift to culture being based on "gotcha moments" where discourse must be boiled down to snarky quick comments that don't convey depth.

People don't talk it out any more. You try to find the most effective and damaging tactic and make quick work of the opponent.

Twitter and SMS and social networking is not helping things get any better either.


I think a 2nd American civil war is brewing my friends. Take measures for preparedness and enjoy the peace while it lasts.



^^^^^^^^^^^

I agree one hundred percent.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Shannow
It's an issue that I'm really struggling with is what has happened where people feel the need to utterly destroy others.


When society is stressed out, more sycos appear and they act out in much more brutal ways. Level of sanity is lost.

 

[DejaVue]

Originally Posted by SonofJoe
It's happening here too. There's a palpable sense of something brutal having being 'unleashed'. Since about 2015, the UK murder rate (mainly fatal stabbings) has rocketed up. It's most noticeable in London but it's been going up in all of our big cities.

Although you can't generalise, it's shocking how young both the perpetrators and the victims are in some of these killings; 13 to 16 seems 'normal' these days! Being from an ethnical background & a poor neighbourhood also is a significant feature as is the disproportionality of the violence (he dissed me so I offed him!).

The bigger problem however has been the divisiveness of the Brexit debate (actually it's been more a nasty, vicious shouting match rather than a debate) and the rise of a newly emboldened rabid, nationalist Right. If this spins much further out of control, I can see this nation of ours wading ankle deep in blood in five years time. I really hope I'm wrong on this last point.

You specifically mentioned London. John Cleese in 2011: "I'm not sure what's going on in Britain. Or, let me say this - I don't know what's going on in London, because London is no longer an English city."

You mention things brewing since 2015, you mention the increased stabbings, you mention the significant features linked to those stabbings...

...and yet you put more blame on things that came after that. Your last paragraph is not the cause of your first two paragraphs. It's the result.

In previous decades, you didn't have big concrete blocks on your bridges to stop vehicles being used as weapons. Ask yourself, or ask John Cleese, what changed.

 

[cjcride]

There is no one answer.

I recently checked online the movies playing at the local theater. 10 movies, 7 have a violence warning 4 have a graphic violence warning.
Now we are not going to watch that and go punch someone out. Young people are more impressionable.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted by oldhp
... We need stiffer laws that cannot be plea bargained down.


Most places already have pretty stiff laws. It's really cheap and terrific PR to write stiff laws.

Last month I was in a county and the morning docket had 40+ felony offenders on it. If every one of those offenders had to be tried, that's minimum 45-60 days of courtroom time, for one half of a one day docket. The county has two courtrooms and two judges. Most sparsely populated places don't even have that - one courtroom and the judge is in town a few days a month ... Need a divorce? Business transaction gone south? We'll get to in the next decade when we clear our criminal backlog that has priority because of speedy trial rules.

Better be ready to invest in a lot more courtrooms ( expensive - you need big buildings with a lot of support staff, bailiffs, clerks, etc. ), judges ( also expensive - more support staff ), public defenders ( underpaid and overworked ), prosecutors ( generally already well funded and in adequate supply ). If the public defenders get conflicted out, then private lawyers have to be appointed ( also expensive, unless they volunteer their time and resources, which is not uncommon ). Not to mention that a great many people seem to feel jury duty - along with informed voting, one of the most important things a citizen can ever be entrusted with - is a nuisance and just don't want to do it; they have things to do they perceive as more important.

Then you need more lockups. Also super expensive, and hardly anyone wants to live around one, for obvious reasons.

Plea bargaining is not going away in our lifetimes, if ever. Nor should it; it's the most efficient use of the currently available resources.

As an aside, I've never heard anyone say, to the effect: "If I had known I was looking at 10-40, I would have never done that". It's always, to the effect: "I'm looking at possible 40 for that?"

 

[Cujet]

Such violence seems so odd to me. I feel awful if I truly hurt someone's feelings. I can't imagine wanting to needlessly injure someone.

I do think the post above hits on all 8 cylinders, it's a lack of empathy.