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I was always rather impressed with BMW's cyclonic air/oil separators that dump back to the sump
Oil Catch Cans - another danger...
- Thread starter FlyPenFly
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So it was super frigid here today and I let the liquid in the can sit all day while I was at the office. I started the car at 6pm tonight, but before I did so I unscrewed the can and had a look. It's still liquid in there with no ice crystals / slush. So whatever the composition it is of oil to water it's not freezing at least not after 8 hours. It does resemble a coffee with cream type colour and I have left the liquid in it after returning home tonight to see if it freezes overnight. It's supposed to be really cold over night.
I would have taken pictures tonight but it was already dark and our parking lots isn't well lit. I'll take pics in the morning when the sun is up.
I'll post them in this thread I started: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4986931
I would have taken pictures tonight but it was already dark and our parking lots isn't well lit. I'll take pics in the morning when the sun is up.
I'll post them in this thread I started: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4986931
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Originally Posted by FlyPenFly
Originally Posted by tcp71
Ford has multiple patents on methods of keeping the valves clean using variable valve timing. Most manufacturers have similar methods of controlling buildup and don't need valve cleaning. Early VW and Audi (maybe BMW) DI engines didn't employ any of these methods and that's where all the "catch can", "walnut blasting", etc started. The vast majority of DI engines have zero need for any of these "services", but dealers have caught on that you can sell them and make a bunch of money on unaware customers that get scared by the internet.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7137377B2/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US6178944B1/en
Dude, it's not "maybe BMW", it's a severe and widely known problem and even 2017/2018 cars are still affected in the US. Audi has recently started introducing dual port and direct injection engines to help alleviate this problem.
Makes no sense to put walnut blasting in quotes... it's like saying "oil change".
Uh. No, it's not. The N54 is the only DI BMW engine which has a problem with build up. It's the first DI engine sold by BMW in the US (There's a unicorn DI/NA I6 engine BMW sold in Europe back in 2007 or so). The N54 was discontinued around 2012-2013 and replaced with the N55 which has a revised oil separator design.
Originally Posted by tcp71
Ford has multiple patents on methods of keeping the valves clean using variable valve timing. Most manufacturers have similar methods of controlling buildup and don't need valve cleaning. Early VW and Audi (maybe BMW) DI engines didn't employ any of these methods and that's where all the "catch can", "walnut blasting", etc started. The vast majority of DI engines have zero need for any of these "services", but dealers have caught on that you can sell them and make a bunch of money on unaware customers that get scared by the internet.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7137377B2/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US6178944B1/en
Dude, it's not "maybe BMW", it's a severe and widely known problem and even 2017/2018 cars are still affected in the US. Audi has recently started introducing dual port and direct injection engines to help alleviate this problem.
Makes no sense to put walnut blasting in quotes... it's like saying "oil change".
Uh. No, it's not. The N54 is the only DI BMW engine which has a problem with build up. It's the first DI engine sold by BMW in the US (There's a unicorn DI/NA I6 engine BMW sold in Europe back in 2007 or so). The N54 was discontinued around 2012-2013 and replaced with the N55 which has a revised oil separator design.
Wouldn't that revision to the oil/air separator be good confirmation that oil vapor can be a problem where it's not well controlled?
Originally Posted by StevieC
Wouldn't that revision to the oil/air separator be good confirmation that oil vapor can be a problem where it's not well controlled?
Manufacturers generally learn from their mistakes and the mistakes of others so they design a separator or some other solution which minimizes the issue. The knee jerk reaction towards DI is tiring because people continue to act like it's 2010.
Wouldn't that revision to the oil/air separator be good confirmation that oil vapor can be a problem where it's not well controlled?
Manufacturers generally learn from their mistakes and the mistakes of others so they design a separator or some other solution which minimizes the issue. The knee jerk reaction towards DI is tiring because people continue to act like it's 2010.
Originally Posted by dave1251
It's really that simple catch cans have no fuction. If they did it would be installed and it would be part of the maintenance package most new car owners have for the first few years of ownership.
Would they really, though??
It's really that simple catch cans have no fuction. If they did it would be installed and it would be part of the maintenance package most new car owners have for the first few years of ownership.
Would they really, though??
Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by dailydriver
Since Ford does NOT have any currently approved, or warranty friendly methods of cleaning the intake valves on their TGDI engines (save for replacing the WHOLE head assembly!
), I must do every little thing possible, even if it seems 'futile', to keep those deposits out of the intake.
(I already use ONLY top tier fuel, Shell V-Power with occasional dosing of Red Line SI-1, will change out the plugs every 15K miles, and use ONLY D1G2 oils.)
Wow, that's a lot of additional ongoing maintenance activity.
Do others report similar requirements?
Does Ford acknowledge this level of additional requirements??
(V-power fuel, 15k sparkplugs, Redline, etc...)
Ford does not "acknowledge" anything, but they also do not "acknowledge" any solution for any IVD problems either, save for replacement of the WHOLE head as an assembly.
FINE if one is still under warranty, NOT so nice if not. (So YES, if it needed cleaning after the power train warranty was up, I would go the walnut shell blasting procedure for ~ $400 instead.)
I would rather avoid any problems altogether, so if a bit of extra maintenance is the cost, I do not mind one bit (I LIKE working on this car, unlike most U.S. consumers who will never even check their own oil, IF they even can with a dipstick anymore, LOL).
I use premium fuel ANYWAY (to get the most performance out of this engine, since Ford's OAR system in the ECM WILL increase timing per sensed octane, and therefore more power/response), the plugs are VERY EASY to change out, and not that costly, even for NGK Laser Iridiums, the OCC is VERY easy to drain, and the Red Line additive is reasonable if bought from an online seller during a sale.
Originally Posted by dailydriver
Since Ford does NOT have any currently approved, or warranty friendly methods of cleaning the intake valves on their TGDI engines (save for replacing the WHOLE head assembly!
(I already use ONLY top tier fuel, Shell V-Power with occasional dosing of Red Line SI-1, will change out the plugs every 15K miles, and use ONLY D1G2 oils.)
Wow, that's a lot of additional ongoing maintenance activity.
Do others report similar requirements?
Does Ford acknowledge this level of additional requirements??
(V-power fuel, 15k sparkplugs, Redline, etc...)
Ford does not "acknowledge" anything, but they also do not "acknowledge" any solution for any IVD problems either, save for replacement of the WHOLE head as an assembly.
FINE if one is still under warranty, NOT so nice if not. (So YES, if it needed cleaning after the power train warranty was up, I would go the walnut shell blasting procedure for ~ $400 instead.)
I would rather avoid any problems altogether, so if a bit of extra maintenance is the cost, I do not mind one bit (I LIKE working on this car, unlike most U.S. consumers who will never even check their own oil, IF they even can with a dipstick anymore, LOL).
I use premium fuel ANYWAY (to get the most performance out of this engine, since Ford's OAR system in the ECM WILL increase timing per sensed octane, and therefore more power/response), the plugs are VERY EASY to change out, and not that costly, even for NGK Laser Iridiums, the OCC is VERY easy to drain, and the Red Line additive is reasonable if bought from an online seller during a sale.
Guy probably has water in the catch-can from doing some short drive cycles. With repeated long drives the catch-can should warm up enough to drive out any collected water. I've never seen water in my catch-cans, but I don't do short drive cycles either. And I know my catch-cans get pretty warm with a long drive ... just put a hand on it to verify. And of course winter time driving will not drive water out the catch-can like hot weather driving will, so that's also a factor in this case.
My stock PCV system in my A4 froze and blew out most of the engine seals with less than 40K on it. I wouldn't blame this on the catch can. They need to be like BMW and have a PCV system heater - oh wait, we just got a recall for that, apparently, they catch on fire.
I finally got my catch can to freeze... https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...tch-can-on-the-caravan-250km#Post4995986
Seems pretty simple to me: the car makers will never install CCs from the factory because any positive effects they might have wouldn't be evident until long after the car's have gone into the secondary market. And if it doesn't help them sell new cars to the cars' first owners, it is an expense not worth the hassle.
Yes I know, everyone that reads this buys new and keeps the car forever, sibif a CC really did help, your car would have come with one because cares about you. /s
Yada, yada; the fact is you are the exception not the rule, and so you're not a part of the majority out there that buys new cars. As such, you are not a factor for the companies when they decide who to cater their products toward.
Now in my case, I am running a CC, but unfortunately for those who love to trot out the old adage about my wallet being lighter because of this, I have some bad news:
1) it didn't cost me anything. It was free, as in beer.
2) I don't carry a wallet, nor do I carry cash. So had I purchased it, I would still weigh the same as before - 284.7 lbs.
Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to go pop the hood on The Bacon Hauler and shine a flashlight through the back of my CC so I can see the brown slurry floating inside the bowl, all the while envisioning the millions of extra miles I have added to my engine's service life.
Yep, MILLIONS of extra miles...or 25...who knows, doesn't matter, my car - my prerogative.
Yes I know, everyone that reads this buys new and keeps the car forever, sibif a CC really did help, your car would have come with one because cares about you. /s
Yada, yada; the fact is you are the exception not the rule, and so you're not a part of the majority out there that buys new cars. As such, you are not a factor for the companies when they decide who to cater their products toward.
Now in my case, I am running a CC, but unfortunately for those who love to trot out the old adage about my wallet being lighter because of this, I have some bad news:
1) it didn't cost me anything. It was free, as in beer.
2) I don't carry a wallet, nor do I carry cash. So had I purchased it, I would still weigh the same as before - 284.7 lbs.
Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to go pop the hood on The Bacon Hauler and shine a flashlight through the back of my CC so I can see the brown slurry floating inside the bowl, all the while envisioning the millions of extra miles I have added to my engine's service life.
Yep, MILLIONS of extra miles...or 25...who knows, doesn't matter, my car - my prerogative.
Originally Posted by dailydriver
Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by dailydriver
Since Ford does NOT have any currently approved, or warranty friendly methods of cleaning the intake valves on their TGDI engines (save for replacing the WHOLE head assembly!
), I must do every little thing possible, even if it seems 'futile', to keep those deposits out of the intake.
(I already use ONLY top tier fuel, Shell V-Power with occasional dosing of Red Line SI-1, will change out the plugs every 15K miles, and use ONLY D1G2 oils.)
Wow, that's a lot of additional ongoing maintenance activity.
Do others report similar requirements?
Does Ford acknowledge this level of additional requirements??
(V-power fuel, 15k sparkplugs, Redline, etc...)
Ford does not "acknowledge" anything, but they also do not "acknowledge" any solution for any IVD problems either, save for replacement of the WHOLE head as an assembly.
FINE if one is still under warranty, NOT so nice if not. (So YES, if it needed cleaning after the power train warranty was up, I would go the walnut shell blasting procedure for ~ $400 instead.)
I would rather avoid any problems altogether, so if a bit of extra maintenance is the cost, I do not mind one bit (I LIKE working on this car, unlike most U.S. consumers who will never even check their own oil, IF they even can with a dipstick anymore, LOL).
I use premium fuel ANYWAY (to get the most performance out of this engine, since Ford's OAR system in the ECM WILL increase timing per sensed octane, and therefore more power/response), the plugs are VERY EASY to change out, and not that costly, even for NGK Laser Iridiums, the OCC is VERY easy to drain, and the Red Line additive is reasonable if bought from an online seller during a sale.
There's a guy in the Titusville area that does walnut blasting for $250 , Long drive for you . He's Jay Heath on Fiesta Facebook page . For the record before CC I had oil in my intercooler and hot side hoses, with none whatsoever .
Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by dailydriver
Since Ford does NOT have any currently approved, or warranty friendly methods of cleaning the intake valves on their TGDI engines (save for replacing the WHOLE head assembly!
(I already use ONLY top tier fuel, Shell V-Power with occasional dosing of Red Line SI-1, will change out the plugs every 15K miles, and use ONLY D1G2 oils.)
Wow, that's a lot of additional ongoing maintenance activity.
Do others report similar requirements?
Does Ford acknowledge this level of additional requirements??
(V-power fuel, 15k sparkplugs, Redline, etc...)
Ford does not "acknowledge" anything, but they also do not "acknowledge" any solution for any IVD problems either, save for replacement of the WHOLE head as an assembly.
FINE if one is still under warranty, NOT so nice if not. (So YES, if it needed cleaning after the power train warranty was up, I would go the walnut shell blasting procedure for ~ $400 instead.)
I would rather avoid any problems altogether, so if a bit of extra maintenance is the cost, I do not mind one bit (I LIKE working on this car, unlike most U.S. consumers who will never even check their own oil, IF they even can with a dipstick anymore, LOL).
I use premium fuel ANYWAY (to get the most performance out of this engine, since Ford's OAR system in the ECM WILL increase timing per sensed octane, and therefore more power/response), the plugs are VERY EASY to change out, and not that costly, even for NGK Laser Iridiums, the OCC is VERY easy to drain, and the Red Line additive is reasonable if bought from an online seller during a sale.
There's a guy in the Titusville area that does walnut blasting for $250 , Long drive for you . He's Jay Heath on Fiesta Facebook page . For the record before CC I had oil in my intercooler and hot side hoses, with none whatsoever .
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Originally Posted by eddy21
Originally Posted by dailydriver
Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by dailydriver
Since Ford does NOT have any currently approved, or warranty friendly methods of cleaning the intake valves on their TGDI engines (save for replacing the WHOLE head assembly!
), I must do every little thing possible, even if it seems 'futile', to keep those deposits out of the intake.
(I already use ONLY top tier fuel, Shell V-Power with occasional dosing of Red Line SI-1, will change out the plugs every 15K miles, and use ONLY D1G2 oils.)
Wow, that's a lot of additional ongoing maintenance activity.
Do others report similar requirements?
Does Ford acknowledge this level of additional requirements??
(V-power fuel, 15k sparkplugs, Redline, etc...)
Ford does not "acknowledge" anything, but they also do not "acknowledge" any solution for any IVD problems either, save for replacement of the WHOLE head as an assembly.
FINE if one is still under warranty, NOT so nice if not. (So YES, if it needed cleaning after the power train warranty was up, I would go the walnut shell blasting procedure for ~ $400 instead.)
I would rather avoid any problems altogether, so if a bit of extra maintenance is the cost, I do not mind one bit (I LIKE working on this car, unlike most U.S. consumers who will never even check their own oil, IF they even can with a dipstick anymore, LOL).
I use premium fuel ANYWAY (to get the most performance out of this engine, since Ford's OAR system in the ECM WILL increase timing per sensed octane, and therefore more power/response), the plugs are VERY EASY to change out, and not that costly, even for NGK Laser Iridiums, the OCC is VERY easy to drain, and the Red Line additive is reasonable if bought from an online seller during a sale.
There's a guy in the Titusville area that does walnut blasting for $250 , Long drive for you . He's Jay Heath on Fiesta Facebook page . For the record before CC I had oil in my intercooler and hot side hoses, with none whatsoever .
IF you are speaking of Titusville, N.J. (??), that is about 15 minutes with traffic from where I am, so that is good to know (and a ****uva lot closer, AND less coin for the procedure) than going all the way down to Custom Performance Engineering in Spartanburg, S.C. to have ST specialist Mitch there do the WSB cleaning!
Yes, the cleaner hot side ducting is also another benefit, and given that these engines CAN use all of the octane they get, I figure that keeping any octane reducing oil in ANY form at all; mist, droplets, whatever, etc.
OUT of the combustion mixture, is a GOOD thing, even if the can does not do much for the dreaded IVD issues.
Originally Posted by dailydriver
Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by dailydriver
Since Ford does NOT have any currently approved, or warranty friendly methods of cleaning the intake valves on their TGDI engines (save for replacing the WHOLE head assembly!
(I already use ONLY top tier fuel, Shell V-Power with occasional dosing of Red Line SI-1, will change out the plugs every 15K miles, and use ONLY D1G2 oils.)
Wow, that's a lot of additional ongoing maintenance activity.
Do others report similar requirements?
Does Ford acknowledge this level of additional requirements??
(V-power fuel, 15k sparkplugs, Redline, etc...)
Ford does not "acknowledge" anything, but they also do not "acknowledge" any solution for any IVD problems either, save for replacement of the WHOLE head as an assembly.
FINE if one is still under warranty, NOT so nice if not. (So YES, if it needed cleaning after the power train warranty was up, I would go the walnut shell blasting procedure for ~ $400 instead.)
I would rather avoid any problems altogether, so if a bit of extra maintenance is the cost, I do not mind one bit (I LIKE working on this car, unlike most U.S. consumers who will never even check their own oil, IF they even can with a dipstick anymore, LOL).
I use premium fuel ANYWAY (to get the most performance out of this engine, since Ford's OAR system in the ECM WILL increase timing per sensed octane, and therefore more power/response), the plugs are VERY EASY to change out, and not that costly, even for NGK Laser Iridiums, the OCC is VERY easy to drain, and the Red Line additive is reasonable if bought from an online seller during a sale.
There's a guy in the Titusville area that does walnut blasting for $250 , Long drive for you . He's Jay Heath on Fiesta Facebook page . For the record before CC I had oil in my intercooler and hot side hoses, with none whatsoever .
IF you are speaking of Titusville, N.J. (??), that is about 15 minutes with traffic from where I am, so that is good to know (and a ****uva lot closer, AND less coin for the procedure) than going all the way down to Custom Performance Engineering in Spartanburg, S.C. to have ST specialist Mitch there do the WSB cleaning!
Yes, the cleaner hot side ducting is also another benefit, and given that these engines CAN use all of the octane they get, I figure that keeping any octane reducing oil in ANY form at all; mist, droplets, whatever, etc.
IF you are speaking of Titusville, N.J. (??), that is about 15 minutes with traffic from where I am, so that is good to know (and a ****uva lot closer, AND less coin for the procedure) than going all the way down to Custom Performance Engineering in Spartanburg, S.C. to have ST specialist Mitch there do the WSB cleaning! smile
No sorry , Florida .
No sorry , Florida .
Towards the end of this video he talks about PCV leaving deposits on valves... Just wanted to reference it here in case someone reads this thread later on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66C4YIiwRbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66C4YIiwRbM
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