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Re: more PSD woes with cold weather [Re: fdcg27] #4991757
01/26/19 07:30 PM
01/26/19 07:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,776
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,776
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Our old fully mechanical Mercedes 240Ds were never a problem in cold weather, if you could get them started.

Back in the day here, people were fond of plumbing in some inline coolant circulating heaters to various Benz diesel models to the point they began to enclose some Mercedes specific instructions in the packaging. wink

Donald: The tip that always works best for diesels is fill up where the truckers fill up. That way, you know you're getting fresh fuel and fuel that probably isn't going to debilitate the vehicle, aside from the rare cases when a storage tank is incorrectly filled.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: more PSD woes with cold weather [Re: Donald] #4995326
01/30/19 07:01 AM
01/30/19 07:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 22,489
Upstate NY
Donald Online content OP
Donald  Online Content OP

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 22,489
Upstate NY
I have been emailing the fuel companies and asking how low a temperature will their fuel still be usable. Shell has said -18C at least in the Albany NY / Western MA area.

A local fuel oil company owner said the diesel he buys for his own trucks has gelled invrecent cold weather and he has dumped in extra kerosene.

But for an individual, the kerosene available available (for kerosene heaters) is dyed heating fuel and not taxed.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: more PSD woes with cold weather [Re: Donald] #4995352
01/30/19 07:32 AM
01/30/19 07:32 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,028
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
Global Moderator
dnewton3  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,028
Indianapolis, IN
I have used Power Service White Bottle successfully for decades; started using it back in 1986 with my first diesel car (Tempo). I have used it my my tractors for years. I have had no issues with it down to -17F in my Dmax and my Kubota. I suspect it's NOT a problem with the additive IF the fuel is a proper winter blend. However, if the fuel is not properly blended, it may ultimately affect the ability of the additive to do it's job. When it was -17F a few years ago here (real temp, not windchill), not only did my Dmax (common rail) and Kubota (mech injection) both start, but they did so with no hesitations or stumbles, and after a gentle warm up for a few minutes, drove away just fine with no fuel issues. So if your fuel is a proper winter blend, and you've added the right amount of PS WB, then I cannot expect it's the additive. But if the fuel is NOT the right blend, it's cause for concern.

Regarding the red bottle 911 from Power Service, I don't think it would hurt, but I'd call them and ask. And specifically, I believe 911 is essentially a product to give relief of fuel that is frozen due to moisture being in the fuel; the alcohol relieves the frozen water crystals. But, if the fuel is not blended correctly for a winter application, I'm not sure that the 911 will address this. I am not 100% sure of this; that's why I suggest calling them and asking prior to adding it. But it seems to me I had this conversation with them several years ago; I had called them with a question about their biocide and got into a side topic conversation about the 911 product. They have a very helpful tech-line group; or at least they did a while back. When reviewing their website info for the 911 product, it clearly states that it's safe to use and will not void OEM warranties if used as directed. Ford has a statement to not use alcohol based products. So there's a bit of a disconnect between them. I would defer to the PowerSerivce folks for detailed info. The PS 911 product states it will re-liquefy gelled fuel, but it also states it will not prevent fuel from gelling. Not sure why there's a distinction there.

From Ford's perspective, you might even call your Ford dealer and ask them what to use; maybe they have a recommended product? "Alcohol", as we know, is a very large and broad term. There are many different kinds of alcohol. Perhaps the Ford statement is just a catch-all warning because going into the weeds in an owner's manual would be too much to digest, and given their nearly schizophrenic approach to additives and lubes .....( ala don't use CK-4, but you can use anything on our approved list, which includes a bunch of CK-4 lubes )... I am not sure they'd be able to give you a detailed answer anyway. MAYBE there are products that use alcohol that are much less harmful, or OK to use only in extreme circumstances. And this is why I'd defer to the PS folks and shy away from Ford's advice, as they have a habit of throwing out blanket statements and then not only violating their own advice, but being mum as to why/how they make these decisions in the first place.

i would call PS and speak to them again, giving them all the details and concerns, and ask about what product(s) to use.

The other things to mention are checking the install of the filters from the recent changes.
Also try to get some fuel from a high-volume source that has winter blends; as suggested from others maybe a truck stop that's not too far away?

Last edited by dnewton3; 01/30/19 07:43 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: more PSD woes with cold weather [Re: Donald] #4995391
01/30/19 08:19 AM
01/30/19 08:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,475
Somewhere
itguy08 Offline
itguy08  Offline

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,475
Somewhere
Originally Posted by Donald
I have been emailing the fuel companies and asking how low a temperature will their fuel still be usable. Shell has said -18C at least in the Albany NY / Western MA area.

A local fuel oil company owner said the diesel he buys for his own trucks has gelled invrecent cold weather and he has dumped in extra kerosene.

But for an individual, the kerosene available available (for kerosene heaters) is dyed heating fuel and not taxed.


Can you check other places for Kerosene? Last time (a year or so ago) I bought Kerosene from the convenience store pump it was crystal clear. That was in PA though so it may be different up in NY. Would one of those gallon jug of Kerosene from Home Depot or Lowes work? They are pricey but you may not need much to get that bad tank of Diesel out.

Re: more PSD woes with cold weather [Re: Donald] #4995546
01/30/19 11:19 AM
01/30/19 11:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,487
Lakeville, MN
MNgopher Offline
MNgopher  Offline

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,487
Lakeville, MN
Where do the medium and heavy duty trucks fill up in your area? Any decent, high volume diesel retailers in the area (truck stops for example?) In the winter, try to buy diesel there - better odds of getting properly winterized diesel and not a bunch of older stuff in th tank.

Re: more PSD woes with cold weather [Re: Donald] #4995627
01/30/19 12:32 PM
01/30/19 12:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,977
NH
supton Offline
supton  Offline

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,977
NH
K2 for heaters would be pricey but should be crystal clear. But, for me, I'd be leery of putting in K2 into a modern diesel, fears of (lost) lubricity would be dancing in my head.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 187k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 152k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 208k, his
Re: more PSD woes with cold weather [Re: supton] #4996033
01/30/19 06:53 PM
01/30/19 06:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 22,489
Upstate NY
Donald Online content OP
Donald  Online Content OP

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 22,489
Upstate NY
Originally Posted by supton
K2 for heaters would be pricey but should be crystal clear. But, for me, I'd be leery of putting in K2 into a modern diesel, fears of (lost) lubricity would be dancing in my head.


All winter diesel is blended with kerosene. Stewart's Shop said they are using 20% kerosene.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: more PSD woes with cold weather [Re: Donald] #4999518
02/02/19 02:27 PM
02/02/19 02:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 22,489
Upstate NY
Donald Online content OP
Donald  Online Content OP

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 22,489
Upstate NY
So I was told I should be asking what the CFPP is (cold filter plug point) is rather that just " how could a temp can I use your diesel fuel at"?

Pride Stations in Western MA says -16F


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: more PSD woes with cold weather [Re: Donald] #4999526
02/02/19 02:35 PM
02/02/19 02:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,308
oh
roadrunner1 Offline
roadrunner1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,308
oh
We were at -18F here a couple days ago and I had to unexpectantly run my 6.7, so no block heater was plugged in. No fuel or starting issues here in NW OH.

My youngest son had ignored advise to leave his water drip and had frozen water line in crawl space.

If you're running Motor Craft filters then your fuel supply is suspect.


'15 F350 6.7
Re: more PSD woes with cold weather [Re: roadrunner1] #4999787
02/02/19 08:02 PM
02/02/19 08:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 22,489
Upstate NY
Donald Online content OP
Donald  Online Content OP

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 22,489
Upstate NY
Originally Posted by roadrunner1
We were at -18F here a couple days ago and I had to unexpectantly run my 6.7, so no block heater was plugged in. No fuel or starting issues here in NW OH.

My youngest son had ignored advise to leave his water drip and had frozen water line in crawl space.

If you're running Motor Craft filters then your fuel supply is suspect.


Letting water drip can help or make things worse. If part of the sewer pipe is exposed to freezing weather as it might be in a drawl space letting water drip can cause ice to form and eventually block the sewer line. I left a large chunk of ice in my kitchen sink where the sewer line is exposed to freezing in the crawl space before going underground. The drip drip drip of the ice melting caused the sewer line to freeze with ice. A real PIA.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: more PSD woes with cold weather [Re: Donald] #5000299
02/03/19 12:37 PM
02/03/19 12:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,000
Sask, Canada
BrianF Offline
BrianF  Offline

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,000
Sask, Canada
Just because a company or supplier states their winter blend is good to a certain temp does not mean the station is using that fuel. They may have some odd mix of fuel in the tanks and unless you test it, how do you truly know? I can only reiterate what others have said: Get your fuel from large stations with high turnover. Go where the truckers go. Unless the owner is a good friend and can truthfully tell you what type of fuel is in their tank.

I go to high turnover stations and have yet to run into a problem. I go to the same stations where my friends have gone for years with their diesels and have yet to run into issues. Very few people I know that run diesels up here actually run additives.

I have cold started my 3500 (accidentally messed with the remote start) , cold soaked at -30C ambient. It cycled the grids once and fired right up. No gelling, no issues.

But I must confess, we in the Prairies are quite lucky. The usual severity of our winter has stations getting winter blend fuels in their tanks quite early. It seems like we run winter fuels from the end of July to usually the first week of July the next year. The cold also keeps a lot of the lefties out as well.


2006 Trailblazer LT. QSUD, Fram Ultra.
2017 Ram 3500 SLT Megacab. Duron SHP 10w30, Baldwin BT7349.
1993 GMC 1500. QSAD, Fram PH5
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