I used this oil this summer in the Odyssey and it was great... but I was really shocked by the low TBN!
Chevron Delo XLE 10W30 VOA
- Thread starter SubieRubyRoo
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Looks good Chris
Thank You for all the hard work and VOA's
Thank You for all the hard work and VOA's
It was nothing Adam.. I enjoy giving back to this board, and I still owe you some filters. I'm not promising anything, but I will box them up today
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
It was nothing Adam.. I enjoy giving back to this board, and I still owe you some filters. I'm not promising anything, but I will box them up today
Sounds great. When this "significant weather event" b.s. Hits I'll be occupied with the filters
It was nothing Adam.. I enjoy giving back to this board, and I still owe you some filters. I'm not promising anything, but I will box them up today
Sounds great. When this "significant weather event" b.s. Hits I'll be occupied with the filters
I have used this one in trucks. It works really well.
Thanks for sharing!
I scored only a 10qt jug of the stuff for $9 about a year ago.
I scored only a 10qt jug of the stuff for $9 about a year ago.
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
but I was really shocked by the low TBN!
why lab use ASTM D4739 for virgin oil ? It's only for used oil
but I was really shocked by the low TBN!
CK-4 or CJ-4 ?
should bee CK
should bee CK
It is indeed CK-4.
Did a comparison chart with PQIA from 2016 CJ4 of the same oil. There are HUGE differences in how the oil was formulated:
I'm curious what the bottling date is on the jug. It probably doesn't matter, but curious because Chevron changed the 15W-40 SDE from 2017 to 2018. In 2017, SDE looked just like this sample (other than the viscosity of course), but in 2018 they added over 100 ppm moly and over 300 ppm of boron. So I can't help but wonder if there have been any changes since your (XLE) sample was blended.
Originally Posted by Gubkin
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
but I was really shocked by the low TBN!
why lab use ASTM D4739 for virgin oil ? It's only for used oil
Yup this lab used ASTM D4739 (as does Blackstone) for a VOA. The oil companies, PQIA and (I would guess) most labs use ASTM D2896 for VOA while reserving D4739 for UOA. Just something to note because it does make the VOA TBN look much less impressive. There's variation in results from lab to lab, too.
I've done some long OCIs with this oil in my Detroit powered OTR truck and I'm most impressed. My longest so far was ~58k miles in which it burned about 7900 gallons of fuel and accumulated ~1600 hours. For that OCI, the TBN was down to 1.9 with TAN at 6.09 and the viscosity was still in prime condition. It's a fabulous oil that doesn't come at an exorbitant price. I'm still using XLE but I think I'm going to try SDE again next.
Thanks for all of your recent VOAs Subie!
Originally Posted by Gubkin
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
but I was really shocked by the low TBN!
Yup this lab used ASTM D4739 (as does Blackstone) for a VOA. The oil companies, PQIA and (I would guess) most labs use ASTM D2896 for VOA while reserving D4739 for UOA. Just something to note because it does make the VOA TBN look much less impressive. There's variation in results from lab to lab, too.
I've done some long OCIs with this oil in my Detroit powered OTR truck and I'm most impressed. My longest so far was ~58k miles in which it burned about 7900 gallons of fuel and accumulated ~1600 hours. For that OCI, the TBN was down to 1.9 with TAN at 6.09 and the viscosity was still in prime condition. It's a fabulous oil that doesn't come at an exorbitant price. I'm still using XLE but I think I'm going to try SDE again next.
Thanks for all of your recent VOAs Subie!
Originally Posted by dustyroads
Yup this lab used ASTM D4739 (as does Blackstone) for a VOA. The oil companies, PQIA and (I would guess) most labs use ASTM D2896 for VOA while reserving D4739 for UOA. Just something to note because it does make the VOA TBN look much less impressive. There's variation in results from lab to lab, too.
Thanks for all of your recent VOAs Subie!
I don't know what the exact differences are, but the three other samples I sent for VOA all came back really close to what has been reported for TBN, so I don't know how it would only affect this one. I'm not up on alot of ACEA stuff, but aren't the E6/E9 ratings considered "low SAPS"? It doesn't really make much of a difference for normal users, you just won't be able to run super-long OCIs on gasoline applications.
Yup this lab used ASTM D4739 (as does Blackstone) for a VOA. The oil companies, PQIA and (I would guess) most labs use ASTM D2896 for VOA while reserving D4739 for UOA. Just something to note because it does make the VOA TBN look much less impressive. There's variation in results from lab to lab, too.
Thanks for all of your recent VOAs Subie!
I don't know what the exact differences are, but the three other samples I sent for VOA all came back really close to what has been reported for TBN, so I don't know how it would only affect this one. I'm not up on alot of ACEA stuff, but aren't the E6/E9 ratings considered "low SAPS"? It doesn't really make much of a difference for normal users, you just won't be able to run super-long OCIs on gasoline applications.
I had the TBN on this sample retested because the 6.52 reading was WAAAAY below the listed TBN on the PDS for this oil; results didn't come back much better, but slightly higher at 7.10. Still kinda confused at how the other 3 oils were really close to reported virgin TBN, and this one was 3 full numbers lower than what Chevron reports at 10.3 virgin.
Any ideas?
Any ideas?
this lab used ASTM D4739
For virgin should be D2896
D2896 = ~ 1.5... 2.0 + D4739
For virgin should be D2896
D2896 = ~ 1.5... 2.0 + D4739
I don't think we've identified too many labs that can test to D2896.
I have personally confirmed that Blackstone and TestOil say they are unable to do the D2896 (although I don't know what the differences are in testing).
I have personally confirmed that Blackstone and TestOil say they are unable to do the D2896 (although I don't know what the differences are in testing).
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
I had the TBN on this sample retested because the 6.52 reading was WAAAAY below the listed TBN on the PDS for this oil; results didn't come back much better, but slightly higher at 7.10. Still kinda confused at how the other 3 oils were really close to reported virgin TBN, and this one was 3 full numbers lower than what Chevron reports at 10.3 virgin.
Any ideas?
I read a little blurb about this subject in one of my trucking magazines when I was home last (yes, until last year, I was still getting mags in the mail). It was from the early days of CK-4. It said that ashless (organic) additives would prevent ASTM D4739 from getting an accurate TBN reading.
It said CK-4 oils would show an average TBN increase of 1.0 over CJ-4 oils when using D2896. On the other hand, using D4739 would show an average TBN decrease of 1.0 compared to CJ-4 oils. The ashless detergents just don't allow us to see the true strength of the new oils. At least those that USE ashless detergents, like the newer Delo products.
The takeaway for us truckers trying to get the most out of our oil, we need to look at all of the information in the oil analyses, not just go by the remaining TBN. For those who may have been scared away from this oil based on the TBN shown in Subie's VOA, no need to worry. It's much stronger than it appears here.
I had the TBN on this sample retested because the 6.52 reading was WAAAAY below the listed TBN on the PDS for this oil; results didn't come back much better, but slightly higher at 7.10. Still kinda confused at how the other 3 oils were really close to reported virgin TBN, and this one was 3 full numbers lower than what Chevron reports at 10.3 virgin.
Any ideas?
I read a little blurb about this subject in one of my trucking magazines when I was home last (yes, until last year, I was still getting mags in the mail). It was from the early days of CK-4. It said that ashless (organic) additives would prevent ASTM D4739 from getting an accurate TBN reading.
It said CK-4 oils would show an average TBN increase of 1.0 over CJ-4 oils when using D2896. On the other hand, using D4739 would show an average TBN decrease of 1.0 compared to CJ-4 oils. The ashless detergents just don't allow us to see the true strength of the new oils. At least those that USE ashless detergents, like the newer Delo products.
The takeaway for us truckers trying to get the most out of our oil, we need to look at all of the information in the oil analyses, not just go by the remaining TBN. For those who may have been scared away from this oil based on the TBN shown in Subie's VOA, no need to worry. It's much stronger than it appears here.
understanding TBN in modern heavy duty engine oils
Found an online article regarding the TBN testing methods (different acids). See if it works...
Woo-hoo! It works on my phone, anyway!
Found an online article regarding the TBN testing methods (different acids). See if it works...
Woo-hoo! It works on my phone, anyway!
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Thanks Dusty! Wish they had some way of testing or comparing the two rather than "higher before, lower after" stuff. I've got about 11 gallons of the Delo on the shelf for use at some point. It worked great in my Odyssey, I'm sure it will be great in the Subies as well.
Are you still piling up impressive UOAs on this in your semi?
Are you still piling up impressive UOAs on this in your semi?
You're welcome... I knew there was something to explain the very low TBN observed in your VOA, and the article clears it up nicely.
Yup I'm still getting good results with Delo XLE. Last summer I ran Delo SDE for a 45k mile OCI and it did great, too. I recently posted another UOA in my running thread and while my results aren't real pretty, they're very good and consistent, and the oil isn't used up by any means (despite many miles, hours and burning through a tanker load of fuel each OCI).
Your VOA probably turns many people away from this oil because it "looks" weak in the additives, but my multiple UOAs show that it's a very capable oil. I'm most impressed with it.
Yup I'm still getting good results with Delo XLE. Last summer I ran Delo SDE for a 45k mile OCI and it did great, too. I recently posted another UOA in my running thread and while my results aren't real pretty, they're very good and consistent, and the oil isn't used up by any means (despite many miles, hours and burning through a tanker load of fuel each OCI).
Your VOA probably turns many people away from this oil because it "looks" weak in the additives, but my multiple UOAs show that it's a very capable oil. I'm most impressed with it.
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