Walnut shell blasting on Hyundai-Kia GDI

[csandste]

My daughter, girl friend and I all have Hyun-Kia GDI engines. All three sizes. In addition I kept a 1.6 Rio to about 100,000 miles without incident. Gave it to my daughter who totaled it. Ran beautifully through its life.

Guess I'm doing too much reading, because where a year ago, I just naturally assumed I'd keep any car to the point where the engine would be fine but the rest of the car disintegrating around it I'm suddenly hearing all of these GDI horror stories. Destroyed engines from the earliest ramp up of 2.4's on American assembly lines, fires starting from accessory kits not properly installed by dealers on recalls and of course the dreaded GDI deposits.

I hear stories about these engines being soot monsters and yet don't know anyone I know who's actually had trouble.

I hear stories about $600 to $1000 walnut shell blasting sessions, but most of these stories are about first generation German cars.

So--- Are HyunKia's really prone to GDI deposits? If so, have you had to do a walnut blasting? How many miles did the fix last? How much did that cost? Can every dealer do it? Are there non-stealership mechanics that specialize in walnut blasting at a reasonable price?

 

[CharBaby]

I believe all GDI engines can(CAN) experience intake valve deposits as the injectors spray straight down the middle of the cylinder instead of spraying across the intake valves(cleaning them). When will this happen and the severity of the deposit build up is all dependent on too many factors to list.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

It depends on the design of the engine in question but essentially you are correct that the problem of soot buildup associated with DI is primarily relegated to 1st gen German designs from over 10 years ago. Since then many manufacturers have opted to implement a port injector to wash off the valves whereas others have opted for better PCV design which doesn't eliminate build up entirely but significantly reduces the rate of accumulation where a cleaning is only required somewhere over 100k miles.

Of course there are the OCD "sky-is-falling" types who will insist that you need to buy all sorts of aftermarket parts (i.e. catch can) to "address" the issue because if you don't the engine will fail as soon as it's out of warranty.

 

[ragtoplvr]

A catch can will not hurt anything. It will catch a lot of oil and water from the crankcase. Is this necessary, I don't know. Will it hurt anything, assuming the hoses are routed away from heat and the can is serviced, no. I have mounted my catch can in front of the radiator, so it sees the coolest air possible. It never fails to catch a few tablespoons of nasty spooge. Mixture of fuel, water and some waste oil. It catches much more in the winter.

Rod

 

[Mainia]

Well, here is a guy that has a Hyundai GDI and is making videos on spray additives, so you can see pictures of his intakes if you watch some of his videos. I personally think he uses the same picture over and over again on some of the videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmcJAs0oB9Y&t=2s

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe9pQ58ThQHJJEg-KbUFX2w

 

[blupupher]

Which motors? As said, some are better than others.
The early GDI Turbo's had some issues, but later (designed in past 5 years) GDI and GDI-T from Hyundai/Kia (and other makers) have addressed most of the issues.

I know on my 3.3 in the Santa Fe (regular GDI), the engine is designed to spray a little fuel on top of the intake valve when it is open, then a full injection of fuel once closed. This gets fuel onto the valve to help prevent carbon build up, but still keep the GDI power and fuel efficiency.

 

[geekster]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
It depends on the design of the engine in question but essentially you are correct that the problem of soot buildup associated with DI is primarily relegated to 1st gen German designs from over 10 years ago. Since then many manufacturers have opted to implement a port injector to wash off the valves whereas others have opted for better PCV design which doesn't eliminate build up entirely but significantly reduces the rate of accumulation where a cleaning is only required somewhere over 100k miles.

Of course there are the OCD "sky-is-falling" types who will insist that you need to buy all sorts of aftermarket parts (i.e. catch can) to "address" the issue because if you don't the engine will fail as soon as it's out of warranty.

I am not aware of HyunKia adding the additional injector in the port. I know Toyota has this in some engines, maybe all? Is this something HyunKia added recently? I would be curious to know what manufacturers actually added a port injector to address this
issue.

I think it's a great idea that should be added to all GDI engines. I know some people will say it's unnecessary at this point. Buy I would still like to see it done.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by geekster
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
It depends on the design of the engine in question but essentially you are correct that the problem of soot buildup associated with DI is primarily relegated to 1st gen German designs from over 10 years ago. Since then many manufacturers have opted to implement a port injector to wash off the valves whereas others have opted for better PCV design which doesn't eliminate build up entirely but significantly reduces the rate of accumulation where a cleaning is only required somewhere over 100k miles.

Of course there are the OCD "sky-is-falling" types who will insist that you need to buy all sorts of aftermarket parts (i.e. catch can) to "address" the issue because if you don't the engine will fail as soon as it's out of warranty.

I am not aware of HyunKia adding the additional injector in the port. I know Toyota has this in some engines, maybe all? Is this something HyunKia added recently? I would be curious to know what manufacturers actually added a port injector to address this
issue.

I think it's a great idea that should be added to all GDI engines. I know some people will say it's unnecessary at this point. Buy I would still like to see it done.



I think Audi, Toyota, and Ford have the additional port injector. I don't know if GM, Chrysler/Fiat, Hyundai implement it.

 

[csandste]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by geekster
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
It depends on the design of the engine in question but essentially you are correct that the problem of soot buildup associated with DI is primarily relegated to 1st gen German designs from over 10 years ago. Since then many manufacturers have opted to implement a port injector to wash off the valves whereas others have opted for better PCV design which doesn't eliminate build up entirely but significantly reduces the rate of accumulation where a cleaning is only required somewhere over 100k miles.

Of course there are the OCD "sky-is-falling" types who will insist that you need to buy all sorts of aftermarket parts (i.e. catch can) to "address" the issue because if you don't the engine will fail as soon as it's out of warranty.

I am not aware of HyunKia adding the additional injector in the port. I know Toyota has this in some engines, maybe all? Is this something HyunKia added recently? I would be curious to know what manufacturers actually added a port injector to address this
issue.

I think it's a great idea that should be added to all GDI engines. I know some people will say it's unnecessary at this point. Buy I would still like to see it done.



I think Audi, Toyota, and Ford have the additional port injector. I don't know if GM, Chrysler/Fiat, Hyundai implement it.


Think some of the '20 HyunKia's are advertising multi-point (IIRC) injection. Assumed this was a Toyota-Ford type set up with an injector upstream but haven't checked the specifics. So far I have not heard from anyone (other manufacturers too) saying "my dealer told me I needed a walnut shell blasting at 80,000 miles and it cost me $xxx." I would think if a bunch of repair shops had invested in walnut machines, they'd be pushing the service.

 

[csandste]

Stopped by both Hyundai and Kia dealers. Both shops pushed BG every 30k for $150+. If not full tear down and chemical clean is $600+. No walnuts.

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted by geekster
I am not aware of HyunKia adding the additional injector in the port. I know Toyota has this in some engines, maybe all? Is this something HyunKia added recently? I would be curious to know what manufacturers actually added a port injector to address this
issue.

I think it's a great idea that should be added to all GDI engines. I know some people will say it's unnecessary at this point. Buy I would still like to see it done.

It is not a second injector or port injection, it is how the injector is placed and how and when it injects the fuel. Not sure what all engines it is used in, but I know it is in the 3.3 Lambda.

This video shows how it works.
If you watch @ ~1:02, you see the intake valve open and the injector squirt a little fuel during the intake cycle getting the top of the valve wet, then it stops.
During compression, it squirts in more fuel like other DI engines.



Again, not sure what engines or how long this has been used (the video above was done 8 years ago though), it is not something I have ever seen advertised or specifically discussed by Hyundai.
It was not till I was looking at the Santa Fe I got that I learned about it.

Edit: It also mentions and shows it in the 2.4 Theta (they call it split injection) @ 1:27 in this video:



Their Gamma engine video shows the injectors starting to inject as the intake valves are closing and continue till compression.

 

[pitzel]

The GDI deposit problems are seen particularly in vehicles for which there is a culture of over-"maintenance" or improper selection of lubricant, whether accidental, or through deliberate fraud of the maintainers. (ie: maintainers using improper oils to save on material costs, or maintainers recommending 3k mile OCI's to increase billings instead of adhering rigorously to the manufacturer's specs!).

Ironically the Hyundai/KIA's are less susceptible to such because people don't quite take care of them as much as some people "maintain" enthusiast models. Thus their exposure to intake clogging virgin motor oil is significantly less than we hear of in the intake clogging horror stories that are heavily brought forward in the enthusiast community.

Its an odd paradox not often seen in the automotive sector -- where less "maintenance" (ie: oil changes) actually causes fewer problems than more. The industry is working hard to combat this culture, by dropping strict maintenance schedules and moving to OLM's, as well as pushing lubricant vendors to increase lubricant quality systemically. Dealer auditing programs are part of the package as well. But there will always be fraudsters, and there will always be a cadre of "backyard mechanics" who think they know better than the manufacturers and deliberately decide to change oil overly frequently.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by pitzel
The GDI deposit problems are seen particularly in vehicles for which there is a culture of over-"maintenance" or improper selection of lubricant, whether accidental, or through deliberate fraud of the maintainers. (ie: maintainers using improper oils to save on material costs, or maintainers recommending 3k mile OCI's to increase billings instead of adhering rigorously to the manufacturer's specs!).

Ironically the Hyundai/KIA's are less susceptible to such because people don't quite take care of them as much as some people "maintain" enthusiast models. Thus their exposure to intake clogging virgin motor oil is significantly less than we hear of in the intake clogging horror stories that are heavily brought forward in the enthusiast community.

Its an odd paradox not often seen in the automotive sector -- where less "maintenance" (ie: oil changes) actually causes fewer problems than more. The industry is working hard to combat this culture, by dropping strict maintenance schedules and moving to OLM's, as well as pushing lubricant vendors to increase lubricant quality systemically. Dealer auditing programs are part of the package as well. But there will always be fraudsters, and there will always be a cadre of "backyard mechanics" who think they know better than the manufacturers and deliberately decide to change oil overly frequently.


I don't know where you got this "culture of over maintenance" theory from, but when it come to enthusiasts vs average vehicle owners, it is no surprise that most of the intake deposit reports come from enthusiasts.

The average vehicle owner has no idea what DI is and how it delivers fuel, so unless the car is throwing codes or misfires, they will never think of getting a boroscope and looking at the valves. They will just bring the car to a shop.
Enthusiasts on the other hand know that DI engines have this problem and will be on the lookout for it even if the vehicle runs properly.

 

[geekster]

Thanks to the other posters for expounding on where most manufacturers are with this. Very insightful.

 

[Brigadier]

Originally Posted by pitzel
Thus their exposure to intake clogging virgin motor oil is significantly less


Is this guy for real?

 

[Kjmack]

Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by pitzel
Thus their exposure to intake clogging virgin motor oil is significantly less


Is this guy for real?

Sad to say I think he believes it . Dirty oil is good !! LOL

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by Kjmack
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by pitzel
Thus their exposure to intake clogging virgin motor oil is significantly less


Is this guy for real?

Sad to say I think he believes it . Dirty oil is good !! LOL


If this were really true someone could make a killing selling used oil to direct injected engine owners!

 

[FlyPenFly]

Originally Posted by pitzel
The GDI deposit problems are seen particularly in vehicles for which there is a culture of over-"maintenance" or improper selection of lubricant, whether accidental, or through deliberate fraud of the maintainers. (ie: maintainers using improper oils to save on material costs, or maintainers recommending 3k mile OCI's to increase billings instead of adhering rigorously to the manufacturer's specs!).



Are you a flat earther too?