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Duramax LML sample #4958706
12/22/18 01:01 PM
12/22/18 01:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
OK
Rigrunner Offline OP
Rigrunner  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
OK
I use this truck hauling predominantly oilfield logging tools. I run everywhere. This year started off really slow and I've still ran 90k mi. I bought the truck used and have no idea about how it was maintained but it was exactly what I needed. I started out with Rotella T-4. A few months later I changed from the stock oil filter to a Caterpillar 1R-1807 filter. Right after that I decided to try Rotella T-6. In the next week I will be installing a Puradyn 8x12 bypass filter. I do add a quart of Lucas oil stabilizer. I have used it for years and not really sure it helps a huge amount but I don't feel like it hurts anything either. I'm really pleased with the results. The oil is dark but it is NOT diesel oil black. And it does not stain your skin. It feels very slick as well.

These are the first two samples that I have ever had done. I take my samples from the dipstick tube with a vacuum pump and disposable tubing. I think everything but the aluminium is ok. Looking for any input.

Attached PDF document
Attached PDF document
Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: Rigrunner] #4958782
12/22/18 02:34 PM
12/22/18 02:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 323
California
CleverUserName Offline
CleverUserName  Offline

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 323
California
Viscosity is too high.17 and 18 cSt is like 50 wt oil. Aluminum does look high for a 6.6.

These trucks work fine on synthetic 10w30 or 5w40, 12-14 cST.

Skip the Lucas, it’s a band-aid for worn out engines. You don’t need it and it does more harm than good.

Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: CleverUserName] #4958853
12/22/18 04:22 PM
12/22/18 04:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
OK
Rigrunner Offline OP
Rigrunner  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
OK
Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Viscosity is too high.17 and 18 cSt is like 50 wt oil. Aluminum does look high for a 6.6.

These trucks work fine on synthetic 10w30 or 5w40, 12-14 cST.

Skip the Lucas, it’s a band-aid for worn out engines. You don’t need it and it does more harm than good.


Do you think the Lucas is the cause for the elevated viscosity? The aluminium is what bothers me. Do you think that the viscosity could be causing the high aluminium? There is no blowby and the engine runs great and has no abnormal noise outside of the normal typewriter tick and that comes and goes.

Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: Rigrunner] #4958941
12/22/18 06:41 PM
12/22/18 06:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 323
California
CleverUserName Offline
CleverUserName  Offline

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 323
California
Originally Posted by Rigrunner
Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Viscosity is too high.17 and 18 cSt is like 50 wt oil. Aluminum does look high for a 6.6.

These trucks work fine on synthetic 10w30 or 5w40, 12-14 cST.

Skip the Lucas, it’s a band-aid for worn out engines. You don’t need it and it does more harm than good.


Do you think the Lucas is the cause for the elevated viscosity? The aluminium is what bothers me. Do you think that the viscosity could be causing the high aluminium? There is no blowby and the engine runs great and has no abnormal noise outside of the normal typewriter tick and that comes and goes.


Yes Lucas is the reason it’s a 50 wt now. I don’t know why the aluminum is elevated, not enough data to figure that out.

The 6.6 usually has remarkably low wear numbers when you run it on the correct oil in the right viscosity.

Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: Rigrunner] #4958965
12/22/18 07:09 PM
12/22/18 07:09 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,809
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
Global Moderator
dnewton3  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,809
Indianapolis, IN
First welcome to this website!
I will confess I'm going to be a bit harsh on your UOAs here; sorry to be so blunt to a new member, but there's stuff going on here that needs addressing.

I see nothing that indicates how many miles these samples were run; I will presume they were run a "normal" distance (with the IOLM; perhaps 7-10k miles?).

Dmax engines generally run extremely well on any decent API spec'd HDEO. There is no need (zero, none, nada) for the Lucas; ditch it.
What concerns me is the elevated Al; way more than normal levels, and it's repeating in the UOAs.
Also, the K is too high. I have no idea if K is an additive in the Lucas; if that's the source then it's yet another reason to stop using it. Or, you may have a coolant leak that's seeping into the cylinders and getting at the Al pistons. I cannot assure you of that, but it's a plausible explanation.

Dmax engines typically turn in some of the very best UOAs for light duty diesel engines. I recommend you stop the Lucas, use any decent dino 15w-40 HDEO, run another few UOAs and see if things settle down. If the K drops out and the Al drops down, then you're fine. If not, then you've got a coolant leak and it needs to be dealt with.

Also, get rid of that giant oil filter; there's nothing wrong whatsoever with the stock oil filter. Many a Dmax have turned in excellent UOAs (better than yours) with the stock type filters. I will confess I don't know specific details about that Cat filter, but two things scream out at me:
https://karenstransport.com/
https://karenstransport.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fk-trans-f1-and-filter-for-duramax-engines
1) there is no BP valve in the filter; THAT IS A VERY BAD THING AS THE OEM APPLICATION REQUIRES A BP VALVE IN THE FILTER BECAUSE IT DOES NOT HAVE ONE IN THE BLOCK. All the typical filter makers (Wix, Fram, Baldwin, etc) clearly show approximately a 15psi delta for the internal filter BP valve in the stock Dmax application. The CAT filter 1R-1807 has no BP in it! (nor does any of the other brand equivalent filters for the cross ref to that CAT filter). Filters that have no BP valve in them do so because the engine makers include a BP relive in the block. But the Dmax does not have one, so it needs one in the filter.
2) these CAT filters are stupid expensive; you pay a LOT more for those oil filters and they will NOT provide any significant reduction in wear, despite all the hype they claim ($17 for a filter ????; you can pay 1/2 that and get excellent "normal" filtration)

It is quite possible that between the oil filter not having a BP valve in it, and the super thick oil, you're starving the engine of oil upon start up until that thick syrup you call "oil" finally gets warm.

The BP filter you're about to add isn't going to help in the way you think either. BP filters are tools to greatly extend the OCIs, but ONLY when you understand what they can and cannot do. Your engine has high Al wear; you need to first fix that issue before trying to compound issues with longer OCIs.

This is a great cautionary tale of why NOT to attempt to out-think the OEMs.

Do as you see fit, but it's my opinion you're on the wrong track.


Last edited by dnewton3; 12/22/18 07:43 PM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: dnewton3] #4959651
12/23/18 05:30 PM
12/23/18 05:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20
United States
maineiac Offline
maineiac  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20
United States
Originally Posted by dnewton3
First welcome to this website!
I will confess I'm going to be a bit harsh on your UOAs here; sorry to be so blunt to a new member, but there's stuff going on here that needs addressing.

I see nothing that indicates how many miles these samples were run; I will presume they were run a "normal" distance (with the IOLM; perhaps 7-10k miles?).

Dmax engines generally run extremely well on any decent API spec'd HDEO. There is no need (zero, none, nada) for the Lucas; ditch it.
What concerns me is the elevated Al; way more than normal levels, and it's repeating in the UOAs.
Also, the K is too high. I have no idea if K is an additive in the Lucas; if that's the source then it's yet another reason to stop using it. Or, you may have a coolant leak that's seeping into the cylinders and getting at the Al pistons. I cannot assure you of that, but it's a plausible explanation.

Dmax engines typically turn in some of the very best UOAs for light duty diesel engines. I recommend you stop the Lucas, use any decent dino 15w-40 HDEO, run another few UOAs and see if things settle down. If the K drops out and the Al drops down, then you're fine. If not, then you've got a coolant leak and it needs to be dealt with.

Also, get rid of that giant oil filter; there's nothing wrong whatsoever with the stock oil filter. Many a Dmax have turned in excellent UOAs (better than yours) with the stock type filters. I will confess I don't know specific details about that Cat filter, but two things scream out at me:
https://karenstransport.com/
https://karenstransport.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fk-trans-f1-and-filter-for-duramax-engines
1) there is no BP valve in the filter; THAT IS A VERY BAD THING AS THE OEM APPLICATION REQUIRES A BP VALVE IN THE FILTER BECAUSE IT DOES NOT HAVE ONE IN THE BLOCK. All the typical filter makers (Wix, Fram, Baldwin, etc) clearly show approximately a 15psi delta for the internal filter BP valve in the stock Dmax application. The CAT filter 1R-1807 has no BP in it! (nor does any of the other brand equivalent filters for the cross ref to that CAT filter). Filters that have no BP valve in them do so because the engine makers include a BP relive in the block. But the Dmax does not have one, so it needs one in the filter.
2) these CAT filters are stupid expensive; you pay a LOT more for those oil filters and they will NOT provide any significant reduction in wear, despite all the hype they claim ($17 for a filter ????; you can pay 1/2 that and get excellent "normal" filtration)

It is quite possible that between the oil filter not having a BP valve in it, and the super thick oil, you're starving the engine of oil upon start up until that thick syrup you call "oil" finally gets warm.

The BP filter you're about to add isn't going to help in the way you think either. BP filters are tools to greatly extend the OCIs, but ONLY when you understand what they can and cannot do. Your engine has high Al wear; you need to first fix that issue before trying to compound issues with longer OCIs.

This is a great cautionary tale of why NOT to attempt to out-think the OEMs.

Do as you see fit, but it's my opinion you're on the wrong track.




And THAT is as informed an opinion as you are going to find on this site or any other. It's a great engine (I owned one and have followed the Duramax UOAs on this site for years) and it's highly likely that your actions are killing it. At a minimum, your oil management regime is doing absolutely no good.

Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: Rigrunner] #4961680
12/26/18 10:00 AM
12/26/18 10:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,271
Midwest, Illinois
beanoil Offline
beanoil  Offline

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,271
Midwest, Illinois
When dnewton talks, it's worth listening to.


beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.
Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: beanoil] #4962037
12/26/18 07:35 PM
12/26/18 07:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
OK
Rigrunner Offline OP
Rigrunner  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
OK
Hey I appreciate the advice and will definitely skipping the Lucas in the future. After an oil change, how soon would you sample again?
Harsh is ok as long as it's respectful and back by some knowledge. I asked for an opinion and that's what I received. Thanks.

Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: Rigrunner] #4962402
12/27/18 08:30 AM
12/27/18 08:30 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,809
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
Global Moderator
dnewton3  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,809
Indianapolis, IN
Here's what I'd say is a plan for moving forward ...

1) get that CAT filter off of there; go get either a Wix, Baldwin, Fram, or similar filter. Point is to go back to the OEM product type and get the CAT off of there.

2) start a flushing routine; point of this is to get the Lucas out, and the K out, and hopefully reset the wear pattern to a normal rate ...
Go find a decent HDEO in 15w-40; any CK-4 will do. Get a dino oil; you're not going to be using it long enough to warrant any cost of a synthetic. You can use ST from Walmart if you want.
Do an oil change now; get that Lucas out of there. It will also hopefully bring down the K.
Run the "new" oil for 5k miles; do a UOA if you want.
Change oil with more 15w-40 conventional oil. This will should flush out the remaining Lucas and K.
Run another 5k miles; do a UOA, see where the results are taking you at this point.
Total distance to get an answer with this method would be 10k miles (5k + 5k with UOA).

If you want to get to an answer quicker, you can greatly shorten the two flush cycles; you don't have to run them for 5k miles. You can run them each for 1k miles; two flushes for 2k miles total. That gets the stuff out quicker, and therefore you get an answer quicker, but you are tossing out perfectly good oil. This is up to you; it's not a necessity. If you choose these short cycles, you'll still have to run another 5k mile run with UOA to get some idea if "normal" wear rates will return.
Total distance to get an answer with this method would b 7k miles (1k + 1k + 5k with UOA).

Keep us posted on the results; make sure to either bookmark this thread or copy the into into a new thread so we can have it for reference.

Have a great new year! Hopefully it will bring newfound success!

Last edited by dnewton3; 12/28/18 06:45 AM. Reason: updated for clarification of OCIs

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: Rigrunner] #4963074
12/28/18 12:56 AM
12/28/18 12:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 418
montreal ,canada
madeej11 Offline
madeej11  Offline

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 418
montreal ,canada
Rigrunner, for the sake of the health of your engine, I strongly suggest you do actually follow dnewton's suggested regimen. Cheers.

Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: madeej11] #4963861
12/28/18 09:04 PM
12/28/18 09:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
OK
Rigrunner Offline OP
Rigrunner  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
OK
Changed it today. Not a drop of Lucas in sight. I will continue with the suggested program and let you know what I come up with.

Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: Rigrunner] #4964092
12/29/18 08:30 AM
12/29/18 08:30 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,809
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
Global Moderator
dnewton3  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,809
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted by Rigrunner
Changed it today. Not a drop of Lucas in sight. I will continue with the suggested program and let you know what I come up with.

did you also drop off the CAT filter?


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: dnewton3] #4965335
12/30/18 02:38 PM
12/30/18 02:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
OK
Rigrunner Offline OP
Rigrunner  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
OK
No it was the only thing I had. So I will run it for a short period.

Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: Rigrunner] #4965861
12/31/18 06:44 AM
12/31/18 06:44 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,809
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
Global Moderator
dnewton3  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,809
Indianapolis, IN
Understood. At your first opportunity, replace that as well. You don't have to wait for an OCI to do that; go ahead and get it done, too. There has got to be an auto parts store along one of your routes somewhere. it's not like changing the filter on a Dmax is difficult; it's hanging right there in plain view. Remove the CAT, remove the adapter, and install any decent brand name filter that is proper for the application. Probably can be done roadside; it's that easy.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Duramax LML sample [Re: Rigrunner] #4973838
01/09/19 04:14 AM
01/09/19 04:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 210
Virginia, usa
Shata Offline
Shata  Offline

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 210
Virginia, usa
Dnewton knows everything about dmax's and has seen tons of analysis on these engines, I definitely agree you need to really go back to stock Fram ultra or another high quality filter and good Convential oil like Delvac and flush twice. I would go with short interval 1k / 1k then on 3rd fill run it out to 5k run UOA and see where your ALU wear rate is per mile compared to before. That 40 ppm alu is definitely concerning thats not normal seeing that in a dmax.

Let us know what you see after your flushes in your UOA post it up.

I wanted Add one more thing, Use blackstone for analysis, its debatable if they are best lab but one thing they do have and thats solid statistics of wear rates of any engine and they know what most oils are made of so they can give you better idea of potential coolant in oil. CAT lab had no idea that 40 ppm AL is not normal. Only cat product you should put on your dmax is coolant filter, Fuel and water sep (if you run lift pump) and even then there is normal brands that are just as good.

Last edited by Shata; 01/09/19 04:32 AM.

16 Silverado 2500 LML 20k Miles
Rotella 5w-40 T6
ST 75w-90 GL5 Diff.
ST Full Syn Dexron VI ATF
Fram Ultra XG9100, AC Delco Fuel
CAT Coolant, K&N Air, K&N Cabin
Filter Mags: Fuel, Allison, LML
--------
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