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Edge 5W-30 7.9k miles '13 F150 5.0 #4951908 12/14/18 02:11 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,238
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dustyroads Offline OP
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This run (so far) was from early May to a few days ago. I plan to leave it in for a few more months (I guess...I'm anxious to check the magnetic plug). I will update when I finish the OCI.

This sample was to check for any abnormal wear readings. Many of you have heard about the Coyote ticking noises; well mine does not tick at all. However, since I put this oil in, it has had three episodes of valve-train clatter. Each time the clatter was heard, it started roughly 30-45 seconds after a "cold" start and it was plenty loud. The first time was the very first start after installing this oil and filter (Fram Ultra), then again in the summer and once more just recently. In each case, it continued until I shut it off; when restarted seconds later, it was quiet. shrug It never made a noise during the previous two OCIs.

This OCI does include a bunch of very cold weather starts, but the previous OCI includes all of last winter (many brutally cold weather starts). No make-up oil added during either OCI. Both times, the oil was down a few ounces. This 5W-30 is dexos1 Gen 2

Edit: this OCI, the oil was down just a few ounces. I believe the last time it was down perhaps 16 ounces. I'm far from home and can't look at my records at the moment.

Code
Oil:       Edge 5W-30     Edge 5W-20            
Filter:     FU 10575     Fram orange 10575            
Oil use:    7945 miles     9557 miles
Odometer:   104791          96846  
                     

Copper        1               2                                           
Iron          9              17                                       
Chromium      0               0
Aluminum      1               7
Lead          0               0
Tin           0               0

Silicon       6               9
Sodium        5               3
Potassium     0               3

Boron        22              65
Moly         71              65

Nickel        0               0
Silver        0               0

Titanium      9               6
Calcium      852            2207
Magnesium   1398              9
Zinc         781             785
Phosphorus   602             604
Barium       0                0

Oxidation     24             27
Nitration     15             13
Sulfation     34             46

Water          N             N
Antifreeze     N             N
Fuel           N             N

Visc @100c    10.6          9.7

TAN           N/A           6.19
TBN           N/A           2.3

PFC          2.63           2.55
(Percent Fuel Content)

PQI           9              6
(Particle Quantifying Index)








Last edited by dustyroads; 12/14/18 02:20 PM.

2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 122k miles
Re: Edge 5W-30 7.9k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dustyroads] #4951969 12/14/18 03:18 PM
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dustyroads Offline OP
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Sorry, sorry, sorry.... I did not run an orange can Fram for the 9557 miles on the previous run. I originally tried posting three OCI samples but after some time I had to give up and save time, so I only posted two samples. On my very first OCI on this truck, I used Motorcraft oil and a Fram orange can. They worked great, but skipped it here.

The 5W-20 run for 9557 miles had a Purolator Boss filter. I just finished a 14 hour day and not at my best now. My apologies for the goof.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 122k miles
Re: Edge 5W-30 7.9k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dustyroads] #4951998 12/14/18 03:57 PM
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JLTD Offline
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Looks like your engine prefers 30 over 20.....but not the Exge if it's making a racket at startup.


Lates.
Re: Edge 5W-30 7.9k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dustyroads] #4952175 12/14/18 07:30 PM
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Not sure why the two are so different in calcium and magnesium. Is one a D1G2 and other is not?


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Edge 5W-30 7.9k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: JLTD] #4952479 12/15/18 06:41 AM
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dnewton3 Offline
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Originally Posted by JLTD
Looks like your engine prefers 30 over 20......

Your basis for stating that?

Last edited by dnewton3; 12/15/18 06:42 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Edge 5W-30 7.9k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dustyroads] #4952555 12/15/18 09:10 AM
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53' Stude Offline
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Originally Posted by dustyroads
Sorry, sorry, sorry.... I did not run an orange can Fram for the 9557 miles on the previous run. I originally tried posting three OCI samples but after some time I had to give up and save time, so I only posted two samples. On my very first OCI on this truck, I used Motorcraft oil and a Fram orange can. They worked great, but skipped it here.

The 5W-20 run for 9557 miles had a Purolator Boss filter. I just finished a 14 hour day and not at my best now. My apologies for the goof.



Looks very good Dusty. Thanks for posting this smile


2009 Toyota Camry LE

161,669 miles

Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic 5w20 Dexos 1 Gen 2 SN+
Fram tough guard 4386 filter
Re: Edge 5W-30 7.9k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dustyroads] #4952597 12/15/18 10:04 AM
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Tones Offline
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I would say look to the filter for the valve clatter for a leaking ADBV. However, it continued till you shut it off? How long was that? I heard valve clatter on my '13 5.0 when first starting up after an oil change (priming the chain tensioner). So that is normal. But it did not last but a few seconds.


'18 Subaru Outback
'11 Toyota Corolla
'10 Honda Civic
'16 Ford F-150 Supercab 2.7TT
Re: Edge 5W-30 7.9k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dnewton3] #4952694 12/15/18 12:36 PM
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JLTD Offline
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Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by JLTD
Looks like your engine prefers 30 over 20......

Your basis for stating that?



Same oil manufacturer, the 30 has much lower wear metals. Fe for example is 1 ppm/882 miles per 1 ppm/562 miles for the 20. That's 150% more to me. I'm not a statistics guy, perhaps that's within some sort of metric for "doesn't make a difference". Pardon my ignorance if statistically it may not be significant; but to me that's a measurable improvement in wear.


Lates.
Re: Edge 5W-30 7.9k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: JLTD] #4952762 12/15/18 03:12 PM
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dnewton3 Offline
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Originally Posted by JLTD
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by JLTD
Looks like your engine prefers 30 over 20......

Your basis for stating that?

Same oil manufacturer, the 30 has much lower wear metals. Fe for example is 1 ppm/882 miles per 1 ppm/562 miles for the 20. That's 150% more to me. I'm not a statistics guy, perhaps that's within some sort of metric for "doesn't make a difference". Pardon my ignorance if statistically it may not be significant; but to me that's a measurable improvement in wear.


Sure - it's the same oil maker. But it's not anywhere near being the same formulation; note the Ca and Mg levels.

I am a statistics guy; a statistical process quality control engineer to be specific.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to say with any credibility which oil did "better" with the limited data we have.
Both these lubes are running well within "normal" bounds, in terms of macro data.
One sample each is a laughable anecdote in terms of micro data.

the 5w30 did 1.13ppm/1k miles; the 5w-20 did 1.78ppm/1k miles. Those are both totally and completely within normal bounds.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis-how-to-decide-what-is-normal/


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Edge 5W-30 7.9k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dustyroads] #4952826 12/15/18 04:49 PM
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JLTD Offline
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Thanks for the expertise. I had a couple of statistics classes; not for me.

I do understand that numerous samples from this vehicle would be required to even start to statistically validate my statement; however from a 2-sample snapshot it appears there is more wear with the 20, that's all.


Lates.
Re: Edge 5W-30 7.9k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: JLTD] #4953025 12/15/18 09:56 PM
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Artem Offline
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One has 1,500 miles of extra use on it. Kinda hard to make a reasonable educated conclusion with that data. It’s not an even comparison.

But definitely safe to say that an 8,000 mile interval will have less particles in it (assuming the oil filters will work the same.


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: Edge 5W-30 7.9k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: Artem] #4953375 12/16/18 11:29 AM
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dustyroads Offline OP
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Originally Posted by JLTD
Looks like your engine prefers 30 over 20.....but not the Exge if it's making a racket at startup.

The clatter has happened just 3 times in all those miles, otherwise it sounds great. I'm very happy with it. I was just playing around when I put 5W-30 in, but I do like the higher HTHS for the low rpm operation. When passing through a town at ~45 mph, it will typically remain in top gear at ~900 rpm and with gentle pressure on the go pedal, will just accelerate back up to speed without dropping a gear.

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Not sure why the two are so different in calcium and magnesium. Is one a D1G2 and other is not?

That's correct, only the 5W-30 is dexos1 Gen 2. I'm not sure if the 5W-20 was even labeled as dexos1. I think Castrol had gone to labeling/licensing only 0W-20 and 5W-30 for d1.

Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Originally Posted by dustyroads
Sorry, sorry, sorry.... I did not run an orange can Fram for the 9557 miles on the previous run. I originally tried posting three OCI samples but after some time I had to give up and save time, so I only posted two samples. On my very first OCI on this truck, I used Motorcraft oil and a Fram orange can. They worked great, but skipped it here.

The 5W-20 run for 9557 miles had a Purolator Boss filter. I just finished a 14 hour day and not at my best now. My apologies for the goof.



Looks very good Dusty. Thanks for posting this smile

Thanks Adam. Good to hear from you. thumbsup

Originally Posted by Tones
I would say look to the filter for the valve clatter for a leaking ADBV. However, it continued till you shut it off? How long was that? I heard valve clatter on my '13 5.0 when first starting up after an oil change (priming the chain tensioner). So that is normal. But it did not last but a few seconds.

I had considered changing the filter, but other than the three times, it has been quiet at startup. And since the clatter starts 30-45 seconds after starting (no timing chain rattle at all), I'm guessing that there's something else wrong. Can the fancy timing go haywire temporarily? Those three times it made all the racket, it went on for as long as I left it running.
I estimate the first time was probably close to a minute before I shut it off. Immediately after changing the oil and filter, I fired up the engine and watched the oil pressure come up (slight delay with new filter) and noted how quiet everything was. I walked to the back of the truck and opened the garage door to let the exhaust out (windows were open already), and while I was back there, the loud clatter began. I walked all around the front of the truck listening and the racket seemed to be coming from both cylinder heads.

The second time was in August, I believe. I had backed out of the garage and was backing up to my porch to unload a new washing machine. Again, at least 30 seconds after starting the engine, the clatter began. This time I started moving the truck all around my driveway and lawn as I listened. I think it had to be 1-2 minutes before I shut it off and it carried on the whole time.
The third time was fairly recent in ambient temperature of about 4 degrees after sitting for the day. Was quiet at startup, but while brushing the snow off... yup, loud clatter that continued until I finished with the snow and turned it off.

All three times, I restarted the engine and it was very quiet again. I've told a few people that my engine has a very faint knocking sound, but it can only be heard from under the truck. I'm not sure it's correct to call it a knock, it's nothing scary but I've never listened to any other gasoline engine from underneath, either. It doesn't sound bad at all when revved so I have stopped being concerned for now. No ticking whatsoever, though. It makes great power and gets amazing fuel mileage for such a heavy truck.
Originally Posted by Artem
One has 1,500 miles of extra use on it. Kinda hard to make a reasonable educated conclusion with that data. It’s not an even comparison.

But definitely safe to say that an 8,000 mile interval will have less particles in it (assuming the oil filters will work the same.

The oil is still in the engine and unless I buy a new truck, I'll update when I finish the OCI. It'll have at least 10k miles on it when I drain it, and have an entire winter of use behind it.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 122k miles
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