Help....mixed Hoat with OAT

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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by StevieC
I'll mix the two in a clear jar as I have some and take a picture. Then I'll heat it to 220F in the jar and show you. Nothing will happen chemically.


That proves nothing in a cooling system. Try mixing it in lets say a 2011-2016 Chrysler that came with an OAT or HOAT factory fill in the cooling system and driving it. That is a valid real world test when telling people the mix won't do any harm. Then tell those who had a problem that they didn't have a problem. The TSB I pasted advises against it, sorry to say I'll believe that.


It will prove that the coolant was fine to be mixed chemically however I never said it would be fine in terms of corrosion protection in a cooling system. This corrosion can lead to things like sludge etc. if this mixture was in great amounts in a OAT cooling system for prolong periods of time because what is in the HOAT isn't compatible with the materials used in the cooling system in OAT filled vehicles. It would also prove that using OAT in a HOAT system is perfectly fine because HOAT contains OAT anyway and if they don't react chemically during the test then it would be fine in a HOAT system.


Isn't protecting a Chrysler cooling system what we're after here? The mix has caused countless Jeep owners problems, a few years back the forums were littered with horror stories of mixing the two. I'd hate to see the OP or anyone else walk away from here thinking mix away OAT/HOAT in a Mopar...........
 
If it were mine, it would get a complete drain and flush with deionized water, then refilled with the coolant that the Fiat Chrysler engineers intended. I would not want to take a chance on compromised corrosion protection or gumming up the entire cooling system.
 
Quote
The new mopar oat coolant is basically a dex clone:.....
Not really. A "dex clone" implies that the AF uses 2eha, the main inhibitor found in DexCool OAT AF. Dexclones generally refer to the universal AFs like Prestone, Peak LL, AP store brand AFs and WM Super Tech, all use 2eha.

FCA/Mopar OAT is an OAT AF using no 2eha, proprietary inhibitors. Likely the closest AF I can speculate similar, Peak Global Lifetime. Long Life OAT AF, no 2eha.

To topic, based on description of amount added, I figured at the very most IF all got mixed, perhaps ~10% 'max' of total system capacity combined, likely less. With low silicate G05 that means a very small amount of silicate added to the system. IMO, that amount unlikely to cause damage. However, draining the res and refilling with OAT not a bad idea, and should be all that is needed. Guess I'd wonder with such a new vehicle why three cups low, but likely normal. Just keep an eye on it.
 
Originally Posted by Kage860
The new mopar oat coolant is basically a dex clone:

https://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/mopar-oat-dexcool-believe-it-or-not-238028.html#/topics/238028

If you wouldnt mix dexcool with hoat, dont mix this one either.... some one here is letting their ego get in the way

The new Mopar stuff is from CCI - the supplier to Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Subaru. There is a Petronas coolant being used in the Fiat 500 or Italian-made Alfa Romeo models.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jeepcherokeeclub.com/4-2014-jeep-cherokee-general-discussion/199265-oat-coolant-where-find-2.html%3ft=199265&page=2&amp=1
http://starparts.chrysler.com/newsletters/newsletter_Oct_2012.pdf
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by fins
Ok...........I only drove the van from my shed to the house garage.........I drained the overflow jug and refilled with OAT.


Good move!!


+1

I, with a very shaky hand, paid something like $50 plus tax for a gallon of Mopar OAT to top off my overflow tank on our Grand Caravan when it got to the min mark few months after we bought it. Don't want to mix different chemistries.
 
And I was looking up Mopar OAT last night and I stumbled upon a Prestone sales presentation on the OEM side that is "classified" and it looks like Prestone is trying to push Cor-Guard to FCA and displace their current assembly plant fill?

I posted on a thread for Motorcraft DY Coolant - since Ford is pushing for Prestone Cor-Guard in the new Transit and they've been rolling out the new DY coolant, there might be something fishy here or that it's a coincidence. It seems like Prestone is proud of their new formulation to pursue OEM fill or service fill status. YA-992 is Cor-Guard.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...646/re-motorcraft-dy-coolant#Post4924646
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by fins
Ok...........I only drove the van from my shed to the house garage.........I drained the overflow jug and refilled with OAT.


Good move!!


+1

I, with a very shaky hand, paid something like $50 plus tax for a gallon of Mopar OAT to top off my overflow tank on our Grand Caravan when it got to the min mark few months after we bought it. Don't want to mix different chemistries.





Yea $50, my hand would be shaking too, that price stings. But the mix of the two could end up costing a lot of $$ to fix, making the $50 look like the deal of the century.
 
It's $80 Canadian up here.
smirk2.gif
RIDICULOUS!
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
It's $80 Canadian up here.
smirk2.gif
RIDICULOUS!


WOW! Prices are all over the place. I checked my records and it was $51 and change after taxes at my Brampton dealer back in 2016.
From what I've read the prices were coming down as FCA was switching more models to this coolant and it becomes more available, but the reports I read were from US. Looks like some dealers treat this coolant as some sort of unicorn juice.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint


Yea $50, my hand would be shaking too, that price stings. But the mix of the two could end up costing a lot of $$ to fix, making the $50 look like the deal of the century.


Yup, those were my thoughts exactly. $50 is a steal for a trouble free cooling system. And on a brand new vehicle, I didn't want to dump perfectly good coolant.
Now, when it comes to changing the coolant in the future and this coolant continues to be ridiculously expensive, I will change formulas or go with Peak Global, after fully flushing the system, of course.
 
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by demarpaint


Yea $50, my hand would be shaking too, that price stings. But the mix of the two could end up costing a lot of $$ to fix, making the $50 look like the deal of the century.


Yup, those were my thoughts exactly. $50 is a steal for a trouble free cooling system. And on a brand new vehicle, I didn't want to dump perfectly good coolant.
Now, when it comes to changing the coolant in the future and this coolant continues to be ridiculously expensive, I will change formulas or go with Peak Global, after fully flushing the system, of course.

I've seen the Mopar Purple coolant in question on AMZN for about $20 or so a gallon a while back. I haven't searched recently though. It pops up on AMZN from time to time, it might be worth looking into. In fact if I remember I might do some online searching for it myself after work today.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint


DISCUSSION:
Chrysler Corporation LLC. has released a new engine coolant for the 2013 model year
vehicles and beyond, for all engine applications except the ones listed in the note above.
This new coolant is an Organic Additive Technology (OAT) (
Fig. 1). OAT coolants have a
service interval of 10 years or 150,000 miles. For heavy duty truck and extreme duty cycle
applications refer to the Service Information or Owner's Manual for proper maintenance
schedules.

CAUTION: Vehicle Damage may occur if dissimilar coolants are mixed!
Coolants of different technologies are not compatible nor interchangeable (OAT, HOAT or
IAT).
Mixing these coolants could result in:
• accelerated corrosion within the engine and cooling systems.
• the coolant having an ammonia smell.
• debris (particles) floating in the coolant.
Further inspection by the technician may find corrosion in the system. This could show up
as aluminum pipes turning black in the coolant system, engine overheat, or leaks in the
coolant system.
NOTE: If OAT (MOPAR P/N 68163848AA Purple) has been Mixed with HOAT (MOPAR
P/N 68048953AB Pink Or Factory Fill HOAT Orange (
Fig. 2) or (Fig. 3)) or any
other coolants have been mixed, it will be necessary to flush the cooling

system.


The highlighted sections really should have ENDED this discussion.

- If the mixing of the two Mopar fluids can result in "an ammonia smell" when neither contains ammonia, it is 100% crystal clear that there is an unwanted chemical reaction taking place between the two. It doesn't matter one hoot that both have "OAT" components, either the organic acid components of the HOAT and OAT are incompatible with each other, or the pure OAT is incompatible with the inorganic parts of the HOAT.

-If particles form after mixing, then *something* is precipitating out of solution due to incompatibility and could potentially clog the cooling system.

- The TSB *specifically states* that even if the two coolants involved both carry Mopar P/Ns, the cooling system should be flushed.

I just do not know how anyone can continue to say that because (paraphrasing) "OAT is a subset of HOAT" that there's no problem. OAT is such a broad class of chemicals that there is *zero* assurance that any two formulations are compatible. That's the problem with the state engine coolants have gotten into in recent decades.
 
Originally Posted by 440Magnum
Originally Posted by demarpaint


DISCUSSION:
Chrysler Corporation LLC. has released a new engine coolant for the 2013 model year
vehicles and beyond, for all engine applications except the ones listed in the note above.
This new coolant is an Organic Additive Technology (OAT) (
Fig. 1). OAT coolants have a
service interval of 10 years or 150,000 miles. For heavy duty truck and extreme duty cycle
applications refer to the Service Information or Owner's Manual for proper maintenance
schedules.

CAUTION: Vehicle Damage may occur if dissimilar coolants are mixed!
Coolants of different technologies are not compatible nor interchangeable (OAT, HOAT or
IAT).
Mixing these coolants could result in:
• accelerated corrosion within the engine and cooling systems.
• the coolant having an ammonia smell.
• debris (particles) floating in the coolant.
Further inspection by the technician may find corrosion in the system. This could show up
as aluminum pipes turning black in the coolant system, engine overheat, or leaks in the
coolant system.
NOTE: If OAT (MOPAR P/N 68163848AA Purple) has been Mixed with HOAT (MOPAR
P/N 68048953AB Pink Or Factory Fill HOAT Orange (
Fig. 2) or (Fig. 3)) or any
other coolants have been mixed, it will be necessary to flush the cooling

system.


The highlighted sections really should have ENDED this discussion.

- If the mixing of the two Mopar fluids can result in "an ammonia smell" when neither contains ammonia, it is 100% crystal clear that there is an unwanted chemical reaction taking place between the two. It doesn't matter one hoot that both have "OAT" components, either the organic acid components of the HOAT and OAT are incompatible with each other, or the pure OAT is incompatible with the inorganic parts of the HOAT.

-If particles form after mixing, then *something* is precipitating out of solution due to incompatibility and could potentially clog the cooling system.

- The TSB *specifically states* that even if the two coolants involved both carry Mopar P/Ns, the cooling system should be flushed.

I just do not know how anyone can continue to say that because (paraphrasing) "OAT is a subset of HOAT" that there's no problem. OAT is such a broad class of chemicals that there is *zero* assurance that any two formulations are compatible. That's the problem with the state engine coolants have gotten into in recent decades.




Exactly, I tried to make my point. Anyone that feels the two can be successfully mixed in the cooling system in question here, go for it, and report back with your findings. I'll pass and stick with OAT in my cooling system calling for OAT, and HOAT in my cooling system calling for HOAT.
wink.gif
 
I explained this above. If you mixed HOAT in an OAT only cooling system it's a problem if in large amounts (not a top-off for example). If you mixed OAT in with a HOAT cooling system it's fine. Notice the vehicle model year of the vehicles in the TSB.

These are OAT only systems and that is a problem if a large amount of HOAT gets mixed into it because in an OAT only system that has HOAT added to it, will cause corrosion if in large amounts because of the materials in this cooling system not being compatible with HOAT and requiring the formulation in OAT to protect it. NOT because the chemicals are not compatible with each other which is exactly what I said.

I then provided proof that HOAT contains OAT in it. I also provided proof that I made this very same mistake with my Journey and it was perfectly fine 60,000 miles (100,000km) later after driving with this in my coolant bottle for 1,000km (600 miles) before realizing I made the mistake.

So if someone were to do a Spill/Fill on an OAT system and refill the radiator with HOAT instead of OAT that would be too much in the system and the corrosion would happen and most likely create sludge. Adding a couple cups of HOAT to an OAT system will not result in sludging and catastrophic failure. Is it idea, no, but it would be fine. That is what I'm getting at.

It's fine to act on the side of caution "just in case" but it's not fine to think that HOAT doesn't contain OAT in the formulation. It's literally in the name!

My dad's Caravan (formerly my Caravan in the past) takes HOAT because it's a 2012 and mine is a 2018 and takes OAT. My Journey also was an OAT system, so it's not like I don't know what I'm talking about.
21.gif
 
Last edited:
I don't know about cooling system materials, they are largely the same nowadays. What exactly would cause rust with HOAT, but not in OAT? I hated chemistry so I'm genuanly interested.

From what I've read, many people successfully used G-05 (HOAT) in their vehicles when dexcool was causing problems
 
Did anyone else notice that the pacifica doesnt have an overflow? its a fully pressurized bottle type with coolant flow.

Not the kind where extra gets pushed out then sucked back in when cold.

I'd flush it.

Random "emotionally charged evidence" wouldnt give me enough fact to overturn what the car manufacturer (and coolant makers) say.
 
HOAT = Hybrid Organic Acid Technology. It contains IAT and OAT.
OAT = Organic Acid Technology. It does not contain IAT.

That is the difference. HOAT LITERALLY CONTAINS OAT!

The reason the TSB was issued is because HOAT is not compatible with OAT systems found in 2014 models and newer and will lead to a decrease in corrosion protection if used which can help to form sludge as the corroded materials generate debris that contributes to the sludge. Not because the chemicals are incompatible with each other causing this sludge itself.

A few cups would have done nothing to this cooling system. Draining and refilling the radiator with HOAT instead of OAT would have over time. I literally have done this with my Journey and it was perfectly fine.

Proof posted above from 3rd party unbiased sites proving that HOAT is OAT with IAT in it.
21.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by 440Magnum
Originally Posted by demarpaint


DISCUSSION:
Chrysler Corporation LLC. has released a new engine coolant for the 2013 model year
vehicles and beyond, for all engine applications except the ones listed in the note above.
This new coolant is an Organic Additive Technology (OAT) (
Fig. 1). OAT coolants have a
service interval of 10 years or 150,000 miles. For heavy duty truck and extreme duty cycle
applications refer to the Service Information or Owner's Manual for proper maintenance
schedules.

CAUTION: Vehicle Damage may occur if dissimilar coolants are mixed!
Coolants of different technologies are not compatible nor interchangeable (OAT, HOAT or
IAT).
Mixing these coolants could result in:
• accelerated corrosion within the engine and cooling systems.
• the coolant having an ammonia smell.
• debris (particles) floating in the coolant.
Further inspection by the technician may find corrosion in the system. This could show up
as aluminum pipes turning black in the coolant system, engine overheat, or leaks in the
coolant system.
NOTE: If OAT (MOPAR P/N 68163848AA Purple) has been Mixed with HOAT (MOPAR
P/N 68048953AB Pink Or Factory Fill HOAT Orange (
Fig. 2) or (Fig. 3)) or any
other coolants have been mixed, it will be necessary to flush the cooling

system.


The highlighted sections really should have ENDED this discussion.

- If the mixing of the two Mopar fluids can result in "an ammonia smell" when neither contains ammonia, it is 100% crystal clear that there is an unwanted chemical reaction taking place between the two. It doesn't matter one hoot that both have "OAT" components, either the organic acid components of the HOAT and OAT are incompatible with each other, or the pure OAT is incompatible with the inorganic parts of the HOAT.

-If particles form after mixing, then *something* is precipitating out of solution due to incompatibility and could potentially clog the cooling system.

- The TSB *specifically states* that even if the two coolants involved both carry Mopar P/Ns, the cooling system should be flushed.

I just do not know how anyone can continue to say that because (paraphrasing) "OAT is a subset of HOAT" that there's no problem. OAT is such a broad class of chemicals that there is *zero* assurance that any two formulations are compatible. That's the problem with the state engine coolants have gotten into in recent decades.



Like I said, we tried!!
 
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