I'm looking at switching my 6.0 PSD over to 10w30 for the winter, currently running Amsoil HDD 15w40 Diesel and Marine, I'm looking at switching to Amsoil's 10w30/ SAE 30 AME oil it claims to have no VII so my question is what exactly do they do and what's the pros or cons of having none
Help understanding VII
- Thread starter BigShug681
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
VII = Viscosity Index Improvers. These are long polymer chains that expand and contract with temperature to modify the characteristics of the oil. You add them to a lighter base oil to increase the viscosity.
PAO and Ester base oils have naturally high viscosity indexes. PAO (Group IV) while very similar to Group III in many areas, has no wax, so it has very predictable viscosity in low temperature regimes, whereas this is not the case for Group III. Ergo, you can readily blend certain grades using these bases without the need to use VII's to prop up the viscosity. 0w-20/5w-20 and 10w-30 are grades that can be done in this manner.
PAO and Ester base oils have naturally high viscosity indexes. PAO (Group IV) while very similar to Group III in many areas, has no wax, so it has very predictable viscosity in low temperature regimes, whereas this is not the case for Group III. Ergo, you can readily blend certain grades using these bases without the need to use VII's to prop up the viscosity. 0w-20/5w-20 and 10w-30 are grades that can be done in this manner.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
VII = Viscosity Index Improvers. These are long polymer chains that expand and contract with temperature to modify the characteristics of the oil. You add them to a lighter base oil to increase the viscosity.
PAO and Ester base oils have naturally high viscosity indexes. PAO (Group IV) while very similar to Group III in many areas, has no wax, so it has very predictable viscosity in low temperature regimes, whereas this is not the case for Group III. Ergo, you can readily blend certain grades using these bases without the need to use VII's to prop up the viscosity. 0w-20/5w-20 and 10w-30 are grades that can be done in this manner.
So two new questions would the lack of VII indicate the oil being Pao and ester based? So in my application would a lack of VII be a good thing or bad?
VII = Viscosity Index Improvers. These are long polymer chains that expand and contract with temperature to modify the characteristics of the oil. You add them to a lighter base oil to increase the viscosity.
PAO and Ester base oils have naturally high viscosity indexes. PAO (Group IV) while very similar to Group III in many areas, has no wax, so it has very predictable viscosity in low temperature regimes, whereas this is not the case for Group III. Ergo, you can readily blend certain grades using these bases without the need to use VII's to prop up the viscosity. 0w-20/5w-20 and 10w-30 are grades that can be done in this manner.
So two new questions would the lack of VII indicate the oil being Pao and ester based? So in my application would a lack of VII be a good thing or bad?
Most likely. As far as I know, PAO/ester base stocks are the only ones that can meet viscosity requirements of SAE 10W and SAE 30 without VIIs.
Generalizing: the fewer VIIs, the better.
Generalizing: the fewer VIIs, the better.
Originally Posted by BigShug681
I'm looking at switching my 6.0 PSD over to 10w30 for the winter, currently running Amsoil HDD 15w40 Diesel and Marine, I'm looking at switching to Amsoil's 10w30/ SAE 30 AME oil it claims to have no VII so my question is what exactly do they do and what's the pros or cons of having none
No VII are fine.
I believe you can get just as good motor oil at Walmart as Amsoil sells. Many to choose from.
I would go with Rotella T6 5W40 or Delo synthetic 5W40. Make sure to look at the container to see it meets the Ford spec. Some older containers may not.
I think synthetic 5W40 is a great oil for the Ford PSD year round. You can find my UOA in that section at BITOG.
I also have a bypass oil filter but that just allows me to run longer between oil changes.
I am a partial Amsoil fan. I just ordered a bunch of Amsoil severe gear oil for my Ford F250. I put Amsoil products in everything but the engine. My bypass filter is an Amsoil screw on filter.
I'm looking at switching my 6.0 PSD over to 10w30 for the winter, currently running Amsoil HDD 15w40 Diesel and Marine, I'm looking at switching to Amsoil's 10w30/ SAE 30 AME oil it claims to have no VII so my question is what exactly do they do and what's the pros or cons of having none
No VII are fine.
I believe you can get just as good motor oil at Walmart as Amsoil sells. Many to choose from.
I would go with Rotella T6 5W40 or Delo synthetic 5W40. Make sure to look at the container to see it meets the Ford spec. Some older containers may not.
I think synthetic 5W40 is a great oil for the Ford PSD year round. You can find my UOA in that section at BITOG.
I also have a bypass oil filter but that just allows me to run longer between oil changes.
I am a partial Amsoil fan. I just ordered a bunch of Amsoil severe gear oil for my Ford F250. I put Amsoil products in everything but the engine. My bypass filter is an Amsoil screw on filter.
Originally Posted by Donald
Originally Posted by BigShug681
I'm looking at switching my 6.0 PSD over to 10w30 for the winter, currently running Amsoil HDD 15w40 Diesel and Marine, I'm looking at switching to Amsoil's 10w30/ SAE 30 AME oil it claims to have no VII so my question is what exactly do they do and what's the pros or cons of having none
No VII are fine.
I believe you can get just as good motor oil at Walmart as Amsoil sells. Many to choose from.
I would go with Rotella T6 5W40 or Delo synthetic 5W40. Make sure to look at the container to see it meets the Ford spec. Some older containers may not.
I think synthetic 5W40 is a great oil for the Ford PSD year round. You can find my UOA in that section at BITOG.
I also have a bypass oil filter but that just allows me to run longer between oil changes.
I am a partial Amsoil fan. I just ordered a bunch of Amsoil severe gear oil for my Ford F250. I put Amsoil products in everything but the engine. My bypass filter is an Amsoil screw on filter.
I stopped running T6 because a lot of injector builders don't recommend or support the use of it. I use amsoil because it's a hot shot rig so the longer I can draw out the OCI the better
Originally Posted by BigShug681
I'm looking at switching my 6.0 PSD over to 10w30 for the winter, currently running Amsoil HDD 15w40 Diesel and Marine, I'm looking at switching to Amsoil's 10w30/ SAE 30 AME oil it claims to have no VII so my question is what exactly do they do and what's the pros or cons of having none
No VII are fine.
I believe you can get just as good motor oil at Walmart as Amsoil sells. Many to choose from.
I would go with Rotella T6 5W40 or Delo synthetic 5W40. Make sure to look at the container to see it meets the Ford spec. Some older containers may not.
I think synthetic 5W40 is a great oil for the Ford PSD year round. You can find my UOA in that section at BITOG.
I also have a bypass oil filter but that just allows me to run longer between oil changes.
I am a partial Amsoil fan. I just ordered a bunch of Amsoil severe gear oil for my Ford F250. I put Amsoil products in everything but the engine. My bypass filter is an Amsoil screw on filter.
I stopped running T6 because a lot of injector builders don't recommend or support the use of it. I use amsoil because it's a hot shot rig so the longer I can draw out the OCI the better
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by BigShug681
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
VII = Viscosity Index Improvers. These are long polymer chains that expand and contract with temperature to modify the characteristics of the oil. You add them to a lighter base oil to increase the viscosity.
PAO and Ester base oils have naturally high viscosity indexes. PAO (Group IV) while very similar to Group III in many areas, has no wax, so it has very predictable viscosity in low temperature regimes, whereas this is not the case for Group III. Ergo, you can readily blend certain grades using these bases without the need to use VII's to prop up the viscosity. 0w-20/5w-20 and 10w-30 are grades that can be done in this manner.
So two new questions would the lack of VII indicate the oil being Pao and ester based? So in my application would a lack of VII be a good thing or bad?
Yes, as AP9 noted, you aren't meeting CCS and MRV for the 10W-xx designation with Group III. The AMSOIL product would likely be PAO-based, might have a dash of Ester in it.
Lack of VII is a big thing for some people but the most demanding engine approvals out there like Porsche A40 are almost all universally met by oils containing VII's so draw your own conclusions as to their overall impact on oil performance.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
VII = Viscosity Index Improvers. These are long polymer chains that expand and contract with temperature to modify the characteristics of the oil. You add them to a lighter base oil to increase the viscosity.
PAO and Ester base oils have naturally high viscosity indexes. PAO (Group IV) while very similar to Group III in many areas, has no wax, so it has very predictable viscosity in low temperature regimes, whereas this is not the case for Group III. Ergo, you can readily blend certain grades using these bases without the need to use VII's to prop up the viscosity. 0w-20/5w-20 and 10w-30 are grades that can be done in this manner.
So two new questions would the lack of VII indicate the oil being Pao and ester based? So in my application would a lack of VII be a good thing or bad?
Yes, as AP9 noted, you aren't meeting CCS and MRV for the 10W-xx designation with Group III. The AMSOIL product would likely be PAO-based, might have a dash of Ester in it.
Lack of VII is a big thing for some people but the most demanding engine approvals out there like Porsche A40 are almost all universally met by oils containing VII's so draw your own conclusions as to their overall impact on oil performance.
Originally Posted by Y_K
Wasn't Ford explicit in its refusal to join the new Diesel spec? Sorry, I am not up to date on the subject. There are oil jugs for Ford diesels on Walmart shelves that claim only Ford spec on them.
This mainly applies to the new 6.7 PSD.
Wasn't Ford explicit in its refusal to join the new Diesel spec? Sorry, I am not up to date on the subject. There are oil jugs for Ford diesels on Walmart shelves that claim only Ford spec on them.
This mainly applies to the new 6.7 PSD.
Originally Posted by BigShug681
Originally Posted by Y_K
Wasn't Ford explicit in its refusal to join the new Diesel spec? Sorry, I am not up to date on the subject. There are oil jugs for Ford diesels on Walmart shelves that claim only Ford spec on them.
This mainly applies to the new 6.7 PSD.
If you have a Ford 6.7 PSD especially, then forget about whether the oil is CJ-4 or CK-4. the important thing is that it meets the Ford spec. WSS-M2C171-F1
Some CK-4 oils came (Shell Rotella CK-4 for example) 5W40 that initially would not meet the Ford spec. I believe many CK-4 5W40 current products now meet the Ford spec. But check the container.
i found this also recently. "SAE 10W-30 oils made to CK-4 spec cannot be compliant with WSS-M2C171-F1." I have not checked on that. I stick to 5W40.
Originally Posted by Y_K
Wasn't Ford explicit in its refusal to join the new Diesel spec? Sorry, I am not up to date on the subject. There are oil jugs for Ford diesels on Walmart shelves that claim only Ford spec on them.
This mainly applies to the new 6.7 PSD.
If you have a Ford 6.7 PSD especially, then forget about whether the oil is CJ-4 or CK-4. the important thing is that it meets the Ford spec. WSS-M2C171-F1
Some CK-4 oils came (Shell Rotella CK-4 for example) 5W40 that initially would not meet the Ford spec. I believe many CK-4 5W40 current products now meet the Ford spec. But check the container.
i found this also recently. "SAE 10W-30 oils made to CK-4 spec cannot be compliant with WSS-M2C171-F1." I have not checked on that. I stick to 5W40.
No Chevron Delo 5W40 on the list. I still have some CJ-4 Delo and the UOA was very good.
An oil named "value tech" is on the list. I would not feel good about using an oil named "value" or "budget" in a PSD engine which probably costs $10K to $15K to replace. Bad name choice.
An oil named "value tech" is on the list. I would not feel good about using an oil named "value" or "budget" in a PSD engine which probably costs $10K to $15K to replace. Bad name choice.
Maybe it could attract fleet purchasers.
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