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Valvoline
by Koncrete_Cam - 12/06/19 01:32 PM
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Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
#4884900
10/01/18 06:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 344
George Bynum
OP
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OP
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 344 |
Is anyone following this? 27-September
2 pilots dead, 2 passengers seriously injured. Local television said tonight that:
Pilot's certification only as SIC; earlier reports were that he had over 10,000 hours
Right seat "person" only had a private SEL license, not even IFR. Said to have over 5,000 hours. Those hours without IFR rating is puzzling.
Runway was marginal length (5393 ft per AirNav) for the aircraft.
I wonder how much faith to put in the media?
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: George Bynum]
#4884930
10/01/18 06:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,095
Astro14
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,095 |
You can expect the first report in the media to have about 50% accuracy.
Reporters have told us that the "Flux Capacitor" failed, or that the pilot's names were "Sum Ting Wong,' 'Wi Tu Lo,' 'Ho Lee Fuk,' and 'Bang Ding Ow".
Having met a reporter recently, she was aghast at the idea that she KNOW anything about the news...it's just her job to "report" it...meaning read the copy placed in front of her.
32 Packard 15W40 01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS 02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge 02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge 05 MB S600 0W40 M1 16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: George Bynum]
#4884984
10/01/18 07:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 28,128
Garak
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 28,128 |
I'd agree with Astro. You get it anything even slightly technical, particularly from a mechanical, technological, scientific/mathematical, or legal perspective, and the journalists are hopelessly lost. You read them off one of Mr. Scott's Star Trek technobabble speeches about why the Enterprise can't move, they'll reprint it verbatim as fact.
Plain, simple Garak.
2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356 1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: Garak]
#4885030
10/01/18 08:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,311
MCompact
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,311 |
I'd agree with Astro. You get it anything even slightly technical, particularly from a mechanical, technological, scientific/mathematical, or legal perspective, and the journalists are hopelessly lost. You read them off one of Mr. Scott's Star Trek technobabble speeches about why the Enterprise can't move, they'll reprint it verbatim as fact. I can personally confirm the average reporter's lack of legal knowledge- and their overriding mantra is: " Never let the facts get in the way of a good story."
Mine: 2014 M235i 2009 Cooper Clubman 1999 Wrangler Sahara 1995 318ti Club Sport
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i M Sport
Son's 2009 328i
Buy what makes you smile...
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: MCompact]
#4885063
10/01/18 09:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 28,128
Garak
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 28,128 |
Some of the things I see printed on local news just makes me shake my head. OT, but there was a time when a crime reporter had to attend court every day and pay attention to the docket and sit in docket court here.
Plain, simple Garak.
2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356 1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: George Bynum]
#4885185
10/02/18 04:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,354
edwardh1
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,354 |
Is anyone following this? 27-September
2 pilots dead, 2 passengers seriously injured. Local television said tonight that:
Pilot's certification only as SIC; earlier reports were that he had over 10,000 hours
Right seat "person" only had a private SEL license, not even IFR. Said to have over 5,000 hours. Those hours without IFR rating is puzzling.
Runway was marginal length (5393 ft per AirNav) for the aircraft.
I wonder how much faith to put in the media? people dont know what sic and sel are or how close marginal was
Last edited by edwardh1; 10/02/18 04:49 AM.
These products are all new every year?? They are a revolution!!! Razor blades, mens shirts, TVs, wiper blades, gutter guards, hearing aids... according to the ads. But also all new last year
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: George Bynum]
#4885197
10/02/18 05:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,046
Cujet
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,046 |
For those who donāt know, the Falcon 50 is a very nice airplane to fly. It has effective leading edge devices, and a single (center engine only) āthrust reverserā . It also has a variable flight control āfeelā system known as āArthur Qā
This leads to an airplane that is pleasingly responsive at both high and low speeds, so itās both fun and easy to maneuver. Itās approach speeds are reasonable (low) due to the effective leading edge devices and good flaps.
Iām not here to claim the Falcon 50 is easy to operate, as itās a complex jet. But it is easier to manage on takeoff and landing, due to very reasonable and comfortable speeds and handling, than nearly all of itās competition due to the above mentioned systems.
There have been center engine TR failures, where the TR ābucketsā failed to deploy and the engine spools up, leading to the center engine pushing the plane off the end of the runway. I donāt have any idea if that happened here.
Despite the center engine only TR, the Falcon 50 can get into and out of short runways that other jets canāt.
Last edited by Cujet; 10/02/18 05:35 AM.
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: George Bynum]
#4885248
10/02/18 07:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,049
fdcg27
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,049 |
So, neither of these guys were legally or practically qualified to operate the aircraft, much less type-rated in it? This begs the question of how this duo got their hands on this aircraft to begin with. This wasn't exactly grandma's Apache after all. Would love to hear the laughter when the owners try to submit the insurance claim.
18 Accord Hybrid 20K HGMO 0W-20 17 Forester 30K VME 0W-20 12 Accord LX 115K SSO 0W-20 09 Forester 119K M1HM 5W-30 96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30 95 318i
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: George Bynum]
#4885284
10/02/18 08:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,024
spackard
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,024 |
Not trying to derail this thread, but it's unusual for two planes to crash, from the same airport (Brackett Field), about 100 yards from each other, in two days. https://abc7.com/plane-crashes-near-brackett-field-airport-in-la-verne;-1-killed/4384834/ https://www.sgvtribune.com/2018/10/...ne-crash-second-fatal-crash-in-two-days/Sunday before 6p: Cessna 177RG, practicing approaches, engine problem Monday 11:50a: Bonanza V35, during approach, possibly clipped a tree
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: fdcg27]
#4885368
10/02/18 10:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,690
Win
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,690 |
..... This begs the question of how this duo got their hands on this aircraft to begin with. This wasn't exactly grandma's Apache after all. ....... "FAA records show that the plane is owned by Global Aircraft Acquisitions LLC of Delaware." Wild guess is they were leasing it and running a charter company with it. There may ( or may not ) be multiple layers of insurance with different conditions of coverage. If a lease or mortgage, it's hard to believe a lease company or note holder would accept hull insurance that had any coverage restrictions that might prevent payout on a hull loss. Insurance covering the pilots, passengers, airport damage, etc., might be a problem. Some people are scrupulous about things. Some people aren't. I've known quite a few people over the years that I suspect would not consider certs to be a deal breaker to fly something if they felt otherwise competent to fly it. That's why I suspect basic hull coverage would not be highly conditioned. But that's just a guess, no experience in this industry .... ....There have been center engine TR failures, where the TR ābucketsā failed to deploy and the engine spools up, leading to the center engine pushing the plane off the end of the runway. I donāt have any idea if that happened here. ..... "Frasher said one of the pilots was unconscious, lying on the throttle after the jet crashed. He said a window had to be broken to throttle back the jet." .....
09 Torrent 3.6 V6 M1 0/30 09 Solstice 2.4 I4 Fram 5/30 08 G8 3.6 V6 ST Syn 5/30 04 Xj8 4.2 V8 Hav 5/40 99 S-10 2.2 I4 RECOVERED 94 Xj12 6.0 V12
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: Win]
#4885386
10/02/18 10:28 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,046
Cujet
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,046 |
[quote] I've known quite a few people over the years that I suspect would not consider certs to be a deal breaker to fly something if they felt otherwise competent to fly it. I've seen that too. Interestingly, that's exactly when problems occur. I avoid such people. Not because I'm "anti freedom" or some such nonsense, but because there is a direct relationship between those types of risk takers and trouble.
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: Win]
#4885728
10/02/18 04:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,049
fdcg27
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,049 |
I dunno. I kind of doubt that there'd be any hull loss coverage in the event of the aircraft being leased to some guys who claimed they could fly it even though they didn't posses the required certs. Aircraft do overrun runways from time to time, even airliners operated by fully qualified crews working for well known first world airlines. Still, leasing an aircraft to be operated by a crew not legally qualified to operate it and then expecting hull loss compensation is going to be a hard sell. I really doubt that any layer of whatever coverage the leasing company may have has anything in their contract of coverage saying "Sure, just flip the keys to anyone who claims to be a jet jock and we're okay with it. You're covered." You can't even rent a few hours in a C172 that's had the wings flown off of it as a trainer for the past decade or two without showing your license, ratings and log book and may even be required to take some dual with an instructor as a check ride. No FBO wants to see any pilot wreck their airplane and kill themselves in the process. I'd expect that the requirements to lease a high zoot bizjet would be a little more stringent, with maybe some sim time required for the prospective pilots and this process will be at least partly ruled by the insurers.
18 Accord Hybrid 20K HGMO 0W-20 17 Forester 30K VME 0W-20 12 Accord LX 115K SSO 0W-20 09 Forester 119K M1HM 5W-30 96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30 95 318i
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: Cujet]
#4886860
10/03/18 08:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,095
Astro14
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,095 |
That's a frightening video...it's got to be doing 80 knots as it leaves the runway. As if the spoilers and reversers weren't used on landing...
32 Packard 15W40 01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS 02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge 02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge 05 MB S600 0W40 M1 16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
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Re: Dassault Falcon 50 crash in Greenville SC
[Re: Astro14]
#4886871
10/03/18 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,015
edhackett
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,015 |
That's a frightening video...it's got to be doing 80 knots as it leaves the runway. As if the spoilers and reversers weren't used on landing... There's a flash at the rear of the plane about a quarter to a third of the way in. Just the sun flashing off the horizontal stabilizer or maybe and engine problem? Ed
Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.
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