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Originally Posted by FarmerDude
Quick question. I came on here asking advice on oil and filter for my new farm truck. I got that advice. How and why did this turn into a bash Amsoil thread? Way off topic folks. Lunch is over, time to cut grass.


Folks are very opinionated here and most of the time it's without factual information to back it up. I don't care what oil someone chooses to use but it bothers me when folks will spread information that isn't factual regarding Amsoil or any other company voiding OE warranties when it's simply not true. An OE can only recommend an oil, not demand it or they would have to provide it free of charge. (At least in the US anyway)

Sorry it turned this way in your thread.

What did you have for lunch?
grin2.gif
 
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Hello my friend. I ate at the Roadkill Cafe. Could not decide if I wanted a "slab of lab" or "the chicken that did not cross the road". It is a local joint. Right front fender chicken tenders, the splatter platter, etc.
 
Opinions on brands and thick versus thin are the two main topics here that will always have a endless argument.
 
Originally Posted by FarmerDude
Hello my friend. I ate at the Roadkill Cafe. Could not decide if I wanted a "slab of lab" or "the chicken that did not cross the road". It is a local joint. Right front fender chicken tenders, the splatter platter, etc.

Sounds like a cool place. What state is that in? I frequently travel to the US to see family / friends or for work and love eating at different places... Is it a chain?

Originally Posted by PimTac
Opinions on brands and thick versus thin are the two main topics here that will always have a endless argument.

No kidding...
 
Virginia. I am a bit of a peanut, cotton, hay, and straw farmer. Not sure if it is a chain or not to be honest. It is inside what looks to be an old Waffle House or Huddle House building. Diner kind of place.

Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by FarmerDude
Hello my friend. I ate at the Roadkill Cafe. Could not decide if I wanted a "slab of lab" or "the chicken that did not cross the road". It is a local joint. Right front fender chicken tenders, the splatter platter, etc.

Sounds like a cool place. What state is that in? I frequently travel to the US to see family / friends or for work and love eating at different places... Is it a chain?

Originally Posted by PimTac
Opinions on brands and thick versus thin are the two main topics here that will always have a endless argument.

No kidding...
 
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Sorry, FarmerDude, for mine and subsequent comments hijacking your post. I knew it would but felt it important enough to make things clear.

StevieC:
You and others can ramble on all you want about how great your beloved oil is but one thing you can't do is guarantee with 100% certainty that a claim wouldn't be denied or hasn't in the past? GM's warranty is clear, why take that chance? The whole reason for DEXOS is to ensure a higher standard for their motor oil. I'm sure GM would be none too pleased if they found out otherwise. Hence, your recommendation is completely irresponsible, and quite frankly, probably self-serving.

Go peddle your stuff all you want for people out of warranty but don't roll the dice with other people's money.
 
Originally Posted by ndfergy
Sorry, FarmerDude, for mine and subsequent comments hijacking your post. I knew it would but felt it important enough to make things clear.

StevieC:
You and others can ramble on all you want about how great your beloved oil is but one thing you can't do is guarantee with 100% certainty that a claim wouldn't be denied or hasn't in the past? GM's warranty is clear, why take that chance? The whole reason for DEXOS is to ensure a higher standard for their motor oil. I'm sure GM would be none too pleased if they found out otherwise. Hence, your recommendation is completely irresponsible, and quite frankly, probably self-serving.

Go peddle your stuff all you want for people out of warranty but don't roll the dice with other people's money.



Selfserving? & Peddling product? ... First of all, I make nothing on whether he buys Amsoil or not I'm NOT a dealer, and I could care less what he uses. I do care about people spreading inaccurate information and misinformation and promoting fear.

Second, show me a case where someone was denied warranty for using Amsoil with an OE? On-top of that Amsoil certifies their oils to meet Dexos 1 Gen 2 Specification both in the non API licensed Signature Series and the API licensed OE Series oils.

So it's not my "beloved" oil, it's an oil that meets/exceeds the actual specification as tested by Amsoil and certified by GM.
Proof on the OE line (API Licensed): https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3404.pdf
Proof on the Signature Series Line (Non API Licensed): https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf

Clearly they know the specification and meet/exceed it or they wouldn't have been granted the API license on the OE series and the Signature Series is their flagship product that is even better than the OE series allowing longer drain intervals than the OE series. So it's not something I made up and it's not something that they are hiding behind marketing for, it's truthful.
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
An OE can only recommend an oil, not demand it or they would have to provide it free of charge. (At least in the US anyway)



Bollocks! They're not recommending a specific product only the certification and weight so that act doesn't apply. More misinformation from you.
 
Carefully worded as does Amsoil, but neither one are licensed dexos, correct? Otherwise it would have the dexos logo on the label.

Originally Posted by StevieC
Selfserving? I make nothing on whether he buys Amsoil or not and I could careless what he uses. Second, show me a case where someone was denied warranty for using Amsoil with an OE? On-top of that Amsoil certifies their oils to meet Dexos 1 Gen 2 Specification both in the non API licensed Signature Series and the API licensed OE Series oils.

So it's not my "beloved" oil, it's an oil that meets/exceeds the actual specification as tested by Amsoil and certified by GM.
Proof on the OE line (API Licensed): https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3404.pdf
Proof on the Signature Series Line (Non API Licensed): https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf

Clearly they know the specification and meet/exceed it or they wouldn't have been granted the API license on the OE series and the Signature Series is their flagship product that is even better than the OE series allowing longer drain intervals than the OE series. So it's not something I made up and it's not something that they are hiding behind marketing for, it's truthful.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Carefully worded as does Amsoil, but neither one are licensed dexos, correct? Otherwise it would have the dexos logo on the label.

Originally Posted by StevieC
Selfserving? I make nothing on whether he buys Amsoil or not and I could careless what he uses. Second, show me a case where someone was denied warranty for using Amsoil with an OE? On-top of that Amsoil certifies their oils to meet Dexos 1 Gen 2 Specification both in the non API licensed Signature Series and the API licensed OE Series oils.

So it's not my "beloved" oil, it's an oil that meets/exceeds the actual specification as tested by Amsoil and certified by GM.
Proof on the OE line (API Licensed): https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3404.pdf
Proof on the Signature Series Line (Non API Licensed): https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf

Clearly they know the specification and meet/exceed it or they wouldn't have been granted the API license on the OE series and the Signature Series is their flagship product that is even better than the OE series allowing longer drain intervals than the OE series. So it's not something I made up and it's not something that they are hiding behind marketing for, it's truthful.



The OE is licensed. The bottle is stamped "American Petroleum Institute certified" Look at the link for the OE product it shows it in the PDF that it is certified for Dexos 1 Gen 2.

Example showing the API Donut:
[Linked Image]


Signature Series NOT showing the Donut:
[Linked Image]




WHERE IS THE CLEVER WORDING OR SHADY PRACTICES ???
 
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Originally Posted by ndfergy
Originally Posted by StevieC
An OE can only recommend an oil, not demand it or they would have to provide it free of charge. (At least in the US anyway)



Bollocks! They're not recommending a specific product only the certification and weight so that act doesn't apply. More misinformation from you.


If the oil meets or exceeds the specification they can't do anything about it. They have to prove it was a fault of the lubricant. They can't just point to well because you used X,Y,Z lubricant the warranty is void. They have to prove that the lubricant somehow didn't meet their requirements.
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by ndfergy
Sorry, FarmerDude, for mine and subsequent comments hijacking your post. I knew it would but felt it important enough to make things clear.

StevieC:
You and others can ramble on all you want about how great your beloved oil is but one thing you can't do is guarantee with 100% certainty that a claim wouldn't be denied or hasn't in the past? GM's warranty is clear, why take that chance? The whole reason for DEXOS is to ensure a higher standard for their motor oil. I'm sure GM would be none too pleased if they found out otherwise. Hence, your recommendation is completely irresponsible, and quite frankly, probably self-serving.

Go peddle your stuff all you want for people out of warranty but don't roll the dice with other people's money.



Selfserving? & Peddling product? ... First of all, I make nothing on whether he buys Amsoil or not I'm NOT a dealer, and I could care less what he uses. I do care about people spreading inaccurate information and misinformation and promoting fear.

Second, show me a case where someone was denied warranty for using Amsoil with an OE? On-top of that Amsoil certifies their oils to meet Dexos 1 Gen 2 Specification both in the non API licensed Signature Series and the API licensed OE Series oils.

So it's not my "beloved" oil, it's an oil that meets/exceeds the actual specification as tested by Amsoil and certified by GM.
Proof on the OE line (API Licensed): https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3404.pdf
Proof on the Signature Series Line (Non API Licensed): https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf

Clearly they know the specification and meet/exceed it or they wouldn't have been granted the API license on the OE series and the Signature Series is their flagship product that is even better than the OE series allowing longer drain intervals than the OE series. So it's not something I made up and it's not something that they are hiding behind marketing for, it's truthful.


I can't show you a warranty denial and neither can you but that doesn't mean it can't or hasn't happened.

If Amsoil OE has the certs then I'm OK with that.

Extending the OCI beyond GM's recommendation is in non-compliance of their warranty so that negates Amsoil's SS advantage.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by ndfergy
Originally Posted by StevieC
An OE can only recommend an oil, not demand it or they would have to provide it free of charge. (At least in the US anyway)



Bollocks! They're not recommending a specific product only the certification and weight so that act doesn't apply. More misinformation from you.


If the oil meets or exceeds the specification they can't do anything about it. They have to prove it was a fault of the lubricant. They can't just point to well because you used X,Y,Z lubricant the warranty is void. They have to prove that the lubricant somehow didn't meet their requirements.


They can require an oil meeting a specification or carrying a specific approval, however they can't simply deny warranty because a lubricant not meeting that criteria was used. What they can do however, though the odds of them doing so is low, is make it a legal issue that the average Joe consumer isn't going to have the resources to pursue.

Would this happen in the case of what's being discussed? Far from likely. However, it IS technically possible, and that's generally why I recommend using an approved lubricant while under warranty. After that, go wild!

Also, the verbiage in the manual is crucial here. Some state, absolutely, that an oil meeting approval XXX is used, whilst others simply "recommend" it and generally only require the API approval.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
WHERE IS THE CLEVER WORDING OR SHADY PRACTICES ???

Wow, dude you need to step back a bit. My post wasn't threatening nor was it out of line. What is your issue? You're only proving ndfergy's point.

Okay so not "licensed" but approved. I was referring to this logo. If the oil is dexos approved it will display this logo, I don't see it on any of the Amsoil products you referenced. that's all I meant.


170987f6-a1c8-48dd-aaf6-784ad8de225c.jpg
 
I suspect the reason the Dexos logo isn't on their bottles is because the bottle label was designed before the Dexos specification and hasn't been updated since then. Just the data bulletin has been updated with it meeting the Dexos specification. I can e-mail them and ask them but I'm sure they will come back with that it meets the Dexos 1 Gen 2 specification as the data bulletin claims and that the OE line is API Certified.

I was just trying to answer your question. I wasn't getting heated, I was just stating my points with information I have is all. As for proving Ndfergy's point, not sure how that is possible when I'm not a dealer and I have nothing to gain if the OP uses Amsoil or not.

All I was trying to do was separate wrong information from factual information.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
I suspect the reason the Dexos logo isn't on their bottles is because the bottle label was designed before the Dexos specification and hasn't been updated since then. Just the data bulletin has been updated with it meeting the Dexos specification. I can e-mail them and ask them but I'm sure they will come back with that it meets the Dexos 1 Gen 2 specification as the data bulletin claims and that the OE line is API Certified.

I was just trying to answer your question. I wasn't getting heated, I was just stating my points with information I have is all. As for proving Ndfergy's point, not sure how that is possible when I'm not a dealer and I have nothing to gain if the OP uses Amsoil or not.

All I was trying to do was separate wrong information from factual information.



I don't think it's a licensed/approved product:

AMSOIL XL 5w-30:

Quote
Use AMSOIL XL Synthetic Motor Oil in applications that require any of the following specifications:

5W-30 (XLF)

API SN (Resource Conserving), SM…; GM dexos1 Gen 2 (supersedes LL-A-025, 6094M and 4718M); ACEA A1/B1 A5/B5; Ford WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C929-A, Chrysler MS-6395; Honda HTO-06; ILSAC GF-5, GF-4…; Fortified with detergents that exceed the dexos1 Gen 2 sulfated ash specification.


AMSOIL OE 5w-30:

Quote
Use AMSOIL OE Synthetic Motor Oil in applications that require any of the following specifications:

5W-30 (OEF)

API SN PLUS (Resource Conserving), SM...; GM dexos1 Gen 2 (supersedes LL-A-025, 6094M and 4718M); ACEA A1/B1,A5/B5; Chrysler MS-6395; Ford WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C929-A; ILSAC GF-5, GF-4...


Versus one of their products that actually carries approvals:
Quote

AMSOIL European Car Formula 5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil (AFL) is engineered for use in gasoline or diesel vehicles that require any of the following specifications:

API SN, SM, CF...
ACEA C3; Chrysler MS-10850
GM dexos 2â„¢
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.01
Ford WSS-M2C917-A
Renault 0700, 0710
Manufacturer Approvals:* BMW Longlife-04; MB-Approval 229.51; Porsche A40


They even bold the Manufacturer Approvals heading on the page.
 
Unfortunately the official dexos approved oil listing has gone AWOL even from the new URL that was posted here a while back.

Again for the 10,000 time (and this is where the careful wording comment came from), "meeting the dexos specification" is not the same as a dexos licensed oil. You know that and you're deliberately obfuscating the issue. Hence my comment.

If an oil is a dexos licensed oil then it will have the dexos logo on the label.

Originally Posted by StevieC
I suspect the reason the Dexos logo isn't on their bottles is because the bottle label was designed before the Dexos specification and hasn't been updated since then. Just the data bulletin has been updated with it meeting the Dexos specification. I can e-mail them and ask them but I'm sure they will come back with that it meets the Dexos 1 Gen 2 specification as the data bulletin claims and that the OE line is API Certified.

I was just trying to answer your question. I wasn't getting heated, I was just stating my points with information I have is all. As for proving Ndfergy's point, not sure how that is possible when I'm not a dealer and I have nothing to gain if the OP uses Amsoil or not.

All I was trying to do was separate wrong information from factual information.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
They can require an oil meeting a specification or carrying a specific approval, however they can't simply deny warranty because a lubricant not meeting that criteria was used. What they can do however, though the odds of them doing so is low, is make it a legal issue that the average Joe consumer isn't going to have the resources to pursue.

Would this happen in the case of what's being discussed? Far from likely. However, it IS technically possible, and that's generally why I recommend using an approved lubricant while under warranty. After that, go wild!

Also, the verbiage in the manual is crucial here. Some state, absolutely, that an oil meeting approval XXX is used, whilst others simply "recommend" it and generally only require the API approval.


Right so if Amsoil says that it meets a certain specification and then something goes wrong with the engine then the consumer is protected because they did their due diligence looking for the spec.
Now if the manual says that it specifically requires API certified motor oil and not just "Recommends" API certified oil or if it doesn't mention API then that is different and I would say to use the OE series which is API licensed.

Most manuals I have read recommend an API licensed oil or suggest an oil type and viscosity but don't officially require it. My Journey didn't, my Santa Fe didn't and my new Toyota says to use TGMO or something equivalent that meets ILSAC GF-5 requirements. No mention of the API.
 
There is a difference between approved and meets.

A lot of products meet specs but you must take the manufacturers word on that. Approved or licensed means it has been tested by a third party and any fees have been paid. Then the privilege of affixing the logo in the bottle is granted.
 
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