Recent Topics
Engine oil from natural gas??
by sloinker. 07/19/19 04:11 PM
Jeep for 16 year old
by stockrex. 07/19/19 03:51 PM
Mustache no beard?
by sloinker. 07/19/19 03:50 PM
GS430 Toyota WS transmission oil
by Shaz. 07/19/19 03:35 PM
High level input question
by buck91. 07/19/19 02:47 PM
Drill press vise?
by buck91. 07/19/19 02:40 PM
More filter porn to come ;)
by 53' Stude. 07/19/19 02:37 PM
Massive amounts of PEA got into my oil ???
by j_mac. 07/19/19 02:10 PM
Anyone have over 200K on their GDI or TGDI engine?
by Speak2Mountain. 07/19/19 12:55 PM
ATF to help with seeping output shaft seal
by spavel6. 07/19/19 12:39 PM
A/C Gas refill with stop leak/dye?
by stockrex. 07/19/19 12:26 PM
[pics] 2004 Corolla spark plug, piston tops
by zorobabel. 07/19/19 11:55 AM
Apple Repair
by madRiver. 07/19/19 11:54 AM
"Hiding" behind the beard?
by BMWTurboDzl. 07/19/19 11:16 AM
Which conventional oil do you use and why?
by JustN89. 07/19/19 10:14 AM
SN+ 0w-30?
by noclutch. 07/19/19 09:46 AM
Atturo Trail Blade A/T ?
by tiredguy. 07/19/19 09:18 AM
Newest Members
Philippe1988, ChiefDaBooty, JIMBO5658, Agway, Murphhyy18
68709 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
100 registered members (2oldtommy, AndyB, aquariuscsm, BearZDefect, alphadog, Audios, 9 invisible), 2,261 guests, and 23 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics292,093
Posts5,016,751
Members68,709
Most Online2,967
Mar 10th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Hop To
Maple workbench tops #4867119
09/12/18 04:56 PM
09/12/18 04:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,110
Indiana
dlundblad Offline OP
dlundblad  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,110
Indiana
Is there any reasoning to having 2-3" wide planks glued together with typical maple workbench tops vs. say the 6-8" wide planks typically found with oak furniture like desks and kitchen tables? I imagine it'd be faster and easier to glue wider planks. What gives?


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 158k M1 EP 10w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: Maple workbench tops [Re: dlundblad] #4867126
09/12/18 05:01 PM
09/12/18 05:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,840
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,840
Virginia Beach
There are a couple of factors. First, a workbench top is considerably thicker than a table top, and it is very difficult to find wide planks in a 2 to 3 inch thickness. When you look at the yield from a tree, (consider the cross section) thick, wide planks use far less of the tree, so they are very wasteful and thus, very expensive.

Second, those wide planks are more prone to greater seasonal movement, in particular, “cupping“.

The extra work of planing, jointing and gluing the smaller planks results in a less expensive, and more stable, workbench top.

I should add, that back before machine tools, when wood was cheaper, you would see wide plank tops on workbenches. Jointing was done by hand, and quarter-sawn wide planks, while expensive even back then, would provide good stability and minimize the labor in crafting a bench.

Further, a workbench was often a craftsman’s “signature”. It was the first piece a customer would see. Benches of that era were beautifully made, both in wood selection and in craftsmanship.

Last edited by Astro14; 09/12/18 05:14 PM.

32 Packard 15W40
01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: Maple workbench tops [Re: Astro14] #4867146
09/12/18 05:19 PM
09/12/18 05:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,110
Indiana
dlundblad Offline OP
dlundblad  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,110
Indiana
I never thought of the meat of the tree being a factor. Thanks.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 158k M1 EP 10w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: Maple workbench tops [Re: dlundblad] #4867150
09/12/18 05:22 PM
09/12/18 05:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,026
VW Fanboy Island
maxdustington Offline
maxdustington  Offline

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,026
VW Fanboy Island
I know that the thing to do is to try to get bowling alley lanes and use that as material for table tops. That might be why, I think the lane planks are about that size and a couple inches thick. Cost is the main factor now, even spruce 2x2s are a bunch of smaller peices scabbed together to form a single length.


03 Jetta AWP/09A 210k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30
Re: Maple workbench tops [Re: dlundblad] #4867205
09/12/18 06:32 PM
09/12/18 06:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,840
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,840
Virginia Beach
I believe that bowling alley lanes are quarter sawn hard maple.

One of the toughest, most stable woods.

Quarter sawing lowers the yield over flat sawing, but the growth rings are tighter in the final product, they are parallel to the thickness, thus creating a more dimensionally stable wood. In some species, like Oak, you get very nice grain effects, including what’s known as medullary rays, when the wood is quarter sawn.

For this reason, antique Craftsman style furniture makes extensive use of quarter sawn Oak. Stickley, in particular, chose the wood to highlight those features when it was stained (which was done with ammonia fumes, but that’s another topic).

Most wood is flat sawn. It’s the most efficient way to cut a tree. But growth rings that are parallel to the width results in easier cupping. Not a big deal for framing a house.

Huge deal in creating a nice, stable working surface.


32 Packard 15W40
01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: Maple workbench tops [Re: dlundblad] #4867229
09/12/18 06:58 PM
09/12/18 06:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
sleddriver Offline
sleddriver  Offline

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
Are you building one or just curious?


1998 Volvo V70 T5 228,880 mi. Original Owner.
M1 10W-30 HM
"It's never a mistake to buy tools, defined broadly. They're not a cost, they're an investment." - J.B. Peterson
Re: Maple workbench tops [Re: Astro14] #4867236
09/12/18 07:10 PM
09/12/18 07:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,026
VW Fanboy Island
maxdustington Offline
maxdustington  Offline

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,026
VW Fanboy Island
Originally Posted by Astro14
Most wood is flat sawn. It’s the most efficient way to cut a tree. But growth rings that are parallel to the width results in easier cupping. Not a big deal for framing a house.
Sometimes it is a big deal!

Message_1534956824361[1].jpg
Last edited by maxdustington; 09/12/18 07:11 PM.

03 Jetta AWP/09A 210k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30
Re: Maple workbench tops [Re: maxdustington] #4867451
09/13/18 04:30 AM
09/13/18 04:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,110
Indiana
dlundblad Offline OP
dlundblad  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,110
Indiana
Originally Posted by maxdustington
I know that the thing to do is to try to get bowling alley lanes and use that as material for table tops. That might be why, I think the lane planks are about that size and a couple inches thick. Cost is the main factor now, even spruce 2x2s are a bunch of smaller peices scabbed together to form a single length.


The cabinet guy who did my parent's cabinets made a counter top out of used bowling alley. I thought it looked very good.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 158k M1 EP 10w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: Maple workbench tops [Re: sleddriver] #4867452
09/13/18 04:32 AM
09/13/18 04:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,110
Indiana
dlundblad Offline OP
dlundblad  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,110
Indiana
Originally Posted by sleddriver
Are you building one or just curious?


I'd like to build one, but we'll see. I don't have any woodworking tools yet so it may be difficult.

You can buy them online, but shipping is the price of the top if not more.

I have a local guy that may be able to throw one together for me as well.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 158k M1 EP 10w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: Maple workbench tops [Re: dlundblad] #4867548
09/13/18 08:00 AM
09/13/18 08:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,840
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,840
Virginia Beach
If you would like to be inspired: buy a copy of "The Workbench Book" by Scott Landis.

It shows some truly beautiful workbenches - but it's focused on woodworking benches. Depending on your intended use for the bench, building your own may, or may not, be practical. For woodworking, a good bench is a must. The top serves as a reference for construction, it must be perfectly flat for the work to be flat and square. The integral vises allow a variety of clamping for work on the wood (planing, sanding, etc.) and so, purchasing a good bench as a foundation is a reasonable option. The weight stabilizes the bench (and work) against the heavy action of planing and sawing. There are many European benches made of beech that are very good. They are also very expensive. Here is a moderately priced woodworking bench: https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/premium-european-workbench.aspx

For a general purpose bench, a wood top is a nice touch. Buy or build the frame, be it steel or wood, and use a top as you describe.

A proper woodworking bench is a different animal. It must be strong, flat, and have built in methods for clamping. I would prefer a face vise and a tail vise. Tools required to build a good bench include Jointer ("joints" or flattens your boards, creating true surface) and a Planer (really should be called a "thicknesser" because that's all it does, the reference plane of the wood is created by the jointer). While you can do both of those tasks with hand tools, quality hand tools aren't cheap, and it takes a lot of work to develop the skill to build a proper bench top.

I've built several workbenches. Some live on in my brother's basement. The first one that I ever built had a sturdy base, with 8 4x4 posts and 2x4 framing elements. The top was made of 2x4 laid on edge, so, 3 1/2" thick. The plans came from a library book... and I'm not convinced that the author ever built one... But, that 2x4 top served as a great way to learn how to really flatten a top with a jointer plane (Stanley no.7) So many mistakes...but subsequent benches were better.

For expediency's sake, when I moved into this house ten years ago, I bought a Sjobergs bench. Good quality, two end vises, and I added a face vise. It's served me well in several projects, but I would call it a mid-level bench of medium size. I will need a much larger workspace to build the next bench, a project that will reflect the benches in the book I mentioned above.


32 Packard 15W40
01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: Maple workbench tops [Re: Astro14] #4869443
09/15/18 02:52 PM
09/15/18 02:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
sleddriver Offline
sleddriver  Offline

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
Nice post there Astro. I too marvel at the old master's benches. I once got to see Franz Klaus' bench at a seminar. Beautiful work.

My current bench is based on plans from Lee Valley. The base uses multiple threaded rods to ensure rigidity, tightening when necessary and disassembly should it need to be moved. It is very rigid and won't move or rack at all when pushed. (It will however slide on the smooth concrete garage floor if sufficient lateral force is used.) It features two vises, tool well down the middle and dog holes with LV brass pups. Maple tops are available however I used a top from a plan found in ShopNotes I think as this bench is used for far more than just woodworking. The curtain & vises are made from oil finished birch.

It was designed by Lee Valley, available in three configurations and the plans are very reasonable in price: About $18 US.

Plans: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=31146&cat=1,41637

[Linked Image]


1998 Volvo V70 T5 228,880 mi. Original Owner.
M1 10W-30 HM
"It's never a mistake to buy tools, defined broadly. They're not a cost, they're an investment." - J.B. Peterson
Re: Maple workbench tops [Re: sleddriver] #4874396
09/21/18 08:18 AM
09/21/18 08:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,840
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,840
Virginia Beach
Sled Driver - I like that workbench very much. Lee Valley/Veritas makes some great tools, and I really like the design of that bench. I think I've seen that style in Fine Woodworking (to which I've been a subscriber since about 1990). Your linked page has some other nice plans for benches as well.

I dream of a workspace big enough to hold a proper bench and all my tools. When I lived in Vermont, I had a 600 square foot space, just for woodworking (automotive tools were in the garage) with dedicated 230v circuits for large machines and 115v circuits for small machines, all on a sub panel in that room. It was great. I had a large bench against a wall, and a dedicated outfeed/assembly table/bench behind the table saw that was a full 8' long. Enough room to glue up anything on a stable, flat surface. Sadly, lost that house, and the space, in a divorce. Had no room in storage, so the workbench is now my brother's and the outfeed table is his workbench.

Anyway...

I make do with a one car garage of barely 250 square feet now that has to share both automotive tools and woodworking tools. It's been a great frustration for me. I've managed to still craft things in wood, but each task/operation takes far too much time, as I have to re-arrange other things to put a machine, or even bench, into use. My little Sjobergs bench fits into that space and though I would like a more traditional (and much larger) bench, one simply would not fit.

In addition to a good bench, you need enough room to use it.

I've got composite bench dogs - so, while not as nice as the brass ones from LV, my plane blade will survive a bit of carelessness on my part.

I do have a Craftsman workbench, sheet metal construction, cheap wood top, with a mounted cast iron machinist vise. 8' long, with room underneath for tool carts/drawers. It gets a beating. Gun cleaning, general repair work, automotive assembly rebuilding/repair all take place on that bench.

It's been dinged, dented, and been refinished twice. (Solvents can be hard on even the best polyurethane) but it saves the woodworking bench for just wood working. The top on the Sjobergs remains in good, flat, clean condition.

If a rock maple top (as was being discussed) was on my automotive bench, I think that I would have to protect it for the most demanding jobs. While it's aesthetically pleasing, it would pain me to see it as beat up as the cheap wood top on my Craftsman.

I just got a 10 drawer, 52" rolling tool cabinet (an upgrade) to fit under the Craftsman. It practically cries out for a nice wood top, so, perhaps, in the near future, I will make one. I've got a great lumber store in Norfolk (African Mahogany, walnut, beech, curly maple, cherry, wenge, padauk, you name it, they've got it), and hard (rock) maple would be my choice for the abuse that a tool chest top might take.


32 Packard 15W40
01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™